Do Local Comicbook Stores need a new business model?

[ciorac]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

There you go again introducing facts into a rhetoric laced doom and gloom wailing and gnashing of the teeth session.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

 

And as for the on-line Deep Discounters... a lot of their survival depends on the LCS as well. I probably have a dozen (dozens?) folks who come in the store each week primarily to browse through the new arrivals in order to decide what they are going to go home and order on-line. Without the LCS to act as a free showroom, even the Online sellers will suffer a decline in sales.

 

 

I'm guilty of this....if I'm scoping out a new piece of technology, I generally go and play with it at Best Buy, and if I want it, buy it on Amazon. Generally speaking, better price and no sales tax.

 

I agree though....if the print medium for comics is to remain viable, it will be because of specialty stores like LCS.

 

However, and I used to think it wouldn't happen in my lifetime, I can see a time in the next 10 years, where the technology/hardware (Ipads, Nooks, Kindles) will be cheap and readily available, and the owners of the content (Marvel, DC) will HAVE to go exlusively digital as the the print runs will no longer justify the expense of publishing on paper. The real danger of having mega-corporations hold all the licensing and intellectual property rights is that they maneuver as nimbly as a tank in a china shop. Where small publishing companies can survive on modest print runs under 10k and can adapt better to the changing environment, the Marvels and Disneys of the world can't.

 

How much revenue does Disney/Marvel generate from their comic publications anyway? (and I'm excluding TPBs here) I have to think its a drop in the bucket compared to all the licensing for video games, merchandising, movies, theme parks, etc., etc. That piece of the pie will likely continue to shrink until its no longer viable enough to eat.

 

 

That`s what kinda scares me about Disney owning Marvel now, there may come a day when they will say we really don`t need to publish/print monthly comics anymore as we make more money from one video game like Capcom vs.Marvel, I hope that day never never comes.

[Bookery]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

[Bookery]

There you go again introducing facts into a rhetoric laced doom and gloom wailing and gnashing of the teeth session.

 

By gumly! Thems worrywarts told me I'd go outta business once they start makin' them newfangly autothingys too! But I'll never believe them!

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I agree as well, but which stores are you talking about. They are at Wal Mart, where basically everyone I know shops.

 

You must go to different Walmarts than I do, as other than Archie Digests, I have never seen a funny book prominently displayed there. They might have some hidden in a back alley, but I have yet to see one.

 

But Dale is partially right - the world has passed print media by.

 

I'm part of the world and it hasn't passed me by, and I hope to never own a kindle or shnook, or whatever they call those goofy things. When I want to read a book, it is a book, not a device.

 

But for the purposes of this discussion, which in a general sense hinges on how well LCS survive and adapt in the ever changing world, its not about us 30, 40, and 50 something guys. Rather, how is the next generation learning and utilizing technology around them. and how will that impact print medium into the future?

 

As someone that works in the school system, with every grade level from K-12, I can tell you the push to digitize EVERYTHING is well underway. (Anyone remember the scene in the last Star Trek movie, where young Spock is learning from mulitple holographic images being pushed out by a computer? Its not as far-fetched as you may think). Assessments and Instruction are going Digital....while textbooks are struggling to remain relevant. The average shelf-life of a textbook has been cut by 80% since I was in school (the 80s), as publishers have to update the content almost yearly. Struggling School Boards, already dealing with budgetary shortfalls, are looking for digital content as an alternative to the expense of textbooks.

 

So, beyond the novelty factor, what value will a print item be to someone 25 years from now who has spent their entire life learning, reading, responding, texting, in digital format? Its of the great seachanges in human history, and we're smack dab in the middle of it.

[Bookery]

So, beyond the novelty factor, what value will a print item be to someone 25 years from now who has spent their entire life learning, reading, responding, texting, in digital format? Its of the great seachanges in human history, and we're smack dab in the middle of it.

 

100% correct!

 

I can't imagine reading anything lengthy that isn't in paper form. But as you say, there will be new generations coming up that have never even touched a real book. Why would they want to pay a premium to collect something to them that feels strange and foreign to them?

 

It's not a matter of being doom-and-gloomy. It's a matter of facing reality and trying to decide how to deal with it. At one time pulp magazines were produced in the millions... as many if not more copies than comic books at their peak. But the pulp format died out in the late 40s and early 50s. Today, there are only about 500 to 1,000 serious pulp collectors in existence. The key issues do nevertheless keep going up in value. But many pulps can still be had for $5-$10... barely keeping up with 60 years of inflation, and some genres... like many westerns, most romances and railroad pulps, are valued at only about $2. And even at that, most of those 500 - 1,000 collectors are in their 50s or older.

 

I often joke with my staff... I got into book-selling because it was safe!

Heck... it'd been a viable business model for over 500 years... what could possibly go wrong?!

 

[Dale Roberts]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

Since I am far too smart to purchase those titles, I haven't sold any.

 

 

[the blob]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

There you go again introducing facts into a rhetoric laced doom and gloom wailing and gnashing of the teeth session.

 

 

I sold a Gene Autry this month as well. Low grade, but great cover (if you like the corny singing cowboy stuff). I've sold a few others like that over the years. Probably not the slowest moving type of book I have sold, but fairly slow. I'd think I'd sell a lot more if I had like 400 of them up and had a presence rather than 4 or 5 now and then.

[MrBedrock]

As an aside...how do you define the LCS? One of the big problems with the industry is the lack of any national marketing campaign to promote either specific product or shops in general. A major reason for that is that there is no unified sense of purpose among retailers because there is no unified vision of what a comic shop is. As illustrated in this thread, if a consumer went to fifty different shops he would come away with fifty different experiences, be offered fifty different product mixes, be exposed to fifty different levels of customer service, etc. etc. etc. I'm not saying that is bad thing (I would hate for the comic shop experience to become a cookie cutter ideal), just that it makes it very difficult to promote this market in a broad sense to a large audience.

 

The reason I mention this is that, as a retailer, I long ago determined that I would survive regardless of what was going on in the comic industry itself. If new comics cease to exist I'll still be able to deal in back issues by simply carrying other retail product lines that are profitable for me. Who knows what those will be...but even if I have to carry women's shoes or chainsaws I'll do whatever I have to to still have an LCS.

[Prince Namor]

For anyone who doesn't think the digital age can very quickly take over our little world of comics, you might want to ask the recording industry what THEY think.

[the blob]

"It's not a matter of being doom-and-gloomy. It's a matter of facing reality and trying to decide how to deal with it. At one time pulp magazines were produced in the millions... as many if not more copies than comic books at their peak. But the pulp format died out in the late 40s and early 50s. Today, there are only about 500 to 1,000 serious pulp collectors in existence. The key issues do nevertheless keep going up in value. But many pulps can still be had for $5-$10... barely keeping up with 60 years of inflation, and some genres... like many westerns, most romances and railroad pulps, are valued at only about $2. And even at that, most of those 500 - 1,000 collectors are in their 50s or older."

 

I think the low values have a lot to do with collectors who might be more interested in these (like me and many others on the board) having no idea what these are "worth" and basically being willing to spend $5-$10 for a 70 year old item with a cool looking cover or a story in it from someone I've heard of. that's been my thinking whenever I buy pulps: "hey, that looks pretty neat". I don't think pulp collectors do much to push their hobby, educate, inform, etc. comic collectors seem to be more into it. there's no reason why this couldn't be something many/more comic collectors are interested in as a side-hobby as they relate nicely to comics...

 

 

[Bookery]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

Since I am far too smart to purchase those titles, I haven't sold any.

 

 

You can't purchase them. Unfortunately, I own them all.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

"It's not a matter of being doom-and-gloomy. It's a matter of facing reality and trying to decide how to deal with it. At one time pulp magazines were produced in the millions... as many if not more copies than comic books at their peak. But the pulp format died out in the late 40s and early 50s. Today, there are only about 500 to 1,000 serious pulp collectors in existence. The key issues do nevertheless keep going up in value. But many pulps can still be had for $5-$10... barely keeping up with 60 years of inflation, and some genres... like many westerns, most romances and railroad pulps, are valued at only about $2. And even at that, most of those 500 - 1,000 collectors are in their 50s or older."

 

I think the low values have a lot to do with collectors who might be more interested in these (like me and many others on the board) having no idea what these are "worth" and basically being willing to spend $5-$10 for a 70 year old item with a cool looking cover or a story in it from someone I've heard of. that's been my thinking whenever I buy pulps: "hey, that looks pretty neat". I don't think pulp collectors do much to push their hobby, educate, inform, etc. comic collectors seem to be more into it. there's no reason why this couldn't be something many/more comic collectors are interested in as a side-hobby as they relate nicely to comics...

 

 

I somewhat agree with this, but you need to realize you are talking to the 1 person (Tim) who wrote the pulp price guide.

 

You want to see interest go up in pulps. Let CGC start grading them. Guarantee the interest goes up very quickly and so do the prices.

 

Tim, one reason not many people collect pulps is because most figure if something is worth only 20 - 50 dollars after 70 or 80 years, it won't ever be worth anything.

[Dale Roberts]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

Since I am far too smart to purchase those titles, I haven't sold any.

 

 

You can't purchase them. Unfortunately, I own them all.

 

 

I will try to stop in and buy something no one else in the world wants next time I am up your way.

[the blob]

I agree as well, but which stores are you talking about. They are at Wal Mart, where basically everyone I know shops.

 

You must go to different Walmarts than I do, as other than Archie Digests, I have never seen a funny book prominently displayed there. They might have some hidden in a back alley, but I have yet to see one.

 

But Dale is partially right - the world has passed print media by.

 

I'm part of the world and it hasn't passed me by, and I hope to never own a kindle or shnook, or whatever they call those goofy things. When I want to read a book, it is a book, not a device.

 

But for the purposes of this discussion, which in a general sense hinges on how well LCS survive and adapt in the ever changing world, its not about us 30, 40, and 50 something guys. Rather, how is the next generation learning and utilizing technology around them. and how will that impact print medium into the future?

 

As someone that works in the school system, with every grade level from K-12, I can tell you the push to digitize EVERYTHING is well underway. (Anyone remember the scene in the last Star Trek movie, where young Spock is learning from mulitple holographic images being pushed out by a computer? Its not as far-fetched as you may think). Assessments and Instruction are going Digital....while textbooks are struggling to remain relevant. The average shelf-life of a textbook has been cut by 80% since I was in school (the 80s), as publishers have to update the content almost yearly. Struggling School Boards, already dealing with budgetary shortfalls, are looking for digital content as an alternative to the expense of textbooks.

 

So, beyond the novelty factor, what value will a print item be to someone 25 years from now who has spent their entire life learning, reading, responding, texting, in digital format? Its of the great seachanges in human history, and we're smack dab in the middle of it.

 

The instruction my 5 year old is getting in the NYC Public School system is rather paper intensive. I'm supposed to read a book a night to him. As far as I know, none of the kids are doing that reading on kindles or ipads just yet.

 

Why do Math and Science textbooks need to be updated so much other than to line the pockets of publishers? Why would anything other than a "current" history textbook need to be revised so often? Honestly, in jr. and high school in the mid-80's I'd sometimes be using testbooks from the 60's/early 70's.

[Bookery]

For anyone who doesn't think the digital age can very quickly take over our little world of comics, you might want to ask the recording industry what THEY think.

 

The astounding thing there was the speed with which the music retailers all folded!

 

Now sometimes I can be a bit on the pessimistic side (none of you could probably notice)... But even I thought the e-readers wouldn't reach the popularity they already have for another 5-10 years!

 

 

[the blob]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

I grew up watching Lone Rangers re-runs on TV in the 70's. Gene Autry not so much.

[Dale Roberts]

I agree as well, but which stores are you talking about. They are at Wal Mart, where basically everyone I know shops.

 

You must go to different Walmarts than I do, as other than Archie Digests, I have never seen a funny book prominently displayed there. They might have some hidden in a back alley, but I have yet to see one.

 

But Dale is partially right - the world has passed print media by.

 

I'm part of the world and it hasn't passed me by, and I hope to never own a kindle or shnook, or whatever they call those goofy things. When I want to read a book, it is a book, not a device.

 

But for the purposes of this discussion, which in a general sense hinges on how well LCS survive and adapt in the ever changing world, its not about us 30, 40, and 50 something guys. Rather, how is the next generation learning and utilizing technology around them. and how will that impact print medium into the future?

 

As someone that works in the school system, with every grade level from K-12, I can tell you the push to digitize EVERYTHING is well underway. (Anyone remember the scene in the last Star Trek movie, where young Spock is learning from mulitple holographic images being pushed out by a computer? Its not as far-fetched as you may think). Assessments and Instruction are going Digital....while textbooks are struggling to remain relevant. The average shelf-life of a textbook has been cut by 80% since I was in school (the 80s), as publishers have to update the content almost yearly. Struggling School Boards, already dealing with budgetary shortfalls, are looking for digital content as an alternative to the expense of textbooks.

 

So, beyond the novelty factor, what value will a print item be to someone 25 years from now who has spent their entire life learning, reading, responding, texting, in digital format? Its of the great seachanges in human history, and we're smack dab in the middle of it.

 

 

Do you happen to know the name of the company that makes the best educational software???

[Bookery]

..but even if I have to carry women's shoes or chainsaws I'll do whatever I have to to still have an LCS.

 

But only if you make them available on-line.

 

[Dale Roberts]

Actually, I sold 3 Lone Rangers and 1 Gene Autry this week.. Just saying.

 

Oh, and ECs are great sellers, and some of the Hanna Barbera stuff is too.

 

Of course, that market is dwindling, but there are still a number of collectors since not all of the folks who grew up with those characters are dead... yet.

 

On the other hand... how many Foxy Grandpa's and Katzenjammer Kids did you sell this week?

 

 

I grew up watching Lone Rangers re-runs on TV in the 70's. Gene Autry not so much.

 

Never really got the singing happy cowboy thing either. I see my cowboys more like this...