The current model for buying high grade comics online....

[Paul_Maul]

...just doesn't work. The whole purpose of the symbiosis between CGC and outlets like ebay, Comiclink, etc. is that the collector can purchase books remotely with confidence in the grade. But the more high grade books are traded like commodities, being shipped repeatedly, the less the CGC grade means anything. I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade. The buyer has no recourse, as most of the time they were damaged many transactions ago and the current seller did nothing wrong. Much of the damage is not discernable from scans, so there's no way to "buy the book, not the label."

 

I have nothing against Comiclink, they themselves ship very securely, but once you buy a book there the consignor has to ship it to them and they have to ship it to you. I just got 8 books from them. The 3 with the old inner well (2 were 9.6 and 1 was 9.8) both had significant corner dings inconsistent with the grade. The 5 books I got with the new style inner well were all fine, but again, I suspect the ones that were damaged did not sustain it during shipping from Comiclink.

 

Luckily, I'm wary enough of this that I'm never out more than a couple of hundred bucks. But we've seen the 9.9 Hulk 181 discussed recently, likely falling into the same category. Does anyone really have the confidence in this system to use it for purchasing really high dollar books?

 

I certainly don't. The only thing that keeps me coming back at all is there is virtually no where else to turn.

 

And the long term consequences for the population of ultra nice books that survived that way for so long is truly tragic.

[mrlatko]

Completely agree with you. Shaken Comics Syndrome is also my biggest argument against buying ultra high grade slabs online without seeing them first in person. If I buy a high grade 9.6/9.8 SA/BA slab, it better have the razor sharp corners expected with such grade or I'm not going to be happy with it. I wont buy from those "no refunds on 3rd party graded books" sellers because I refuse to get burned on this.

[fantastic_four]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

[CKB]

 

1. Don't buy from anyone that does not accept returns. Not all 9.6s and 9.8s are the same. Also, accept that you are going to have to pay the return costs.

 

2. I disagree about the old-style well. The damage that can occur in the new wells, if the book is slabbed too "loosely", is worse. And it's doubly worse, because it's not so easily seen.

 

In my experience, poor handling combined with "loose" slabbing can hurt a book just as easily in either inner well.

 

 

[LordRahl]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

 

Anyone spouting off numbers like 40% just doesn't buy that many slabs. I've owned well over 1500 slabs in the last 8 years and I've seen SCS on maybe 10-15 of those books. Does it happen? Absolutely. Does it happen 40% of the time? Not even close.

[LordRahl]

1. Don't buy from anyone that does not accept returns. Not all 9.6s and 9.8s are the same. Also, accept that you are going to have to pay the return costs.

 

2. I disagree about the old-style well. The damage that can occur in the new wells, if the book is slabbed too "loosely", is worse. And it's doubly worse, because it's not so easily seen.

In my experience, poor handling combined with "loose" slabbing can hurt a book just as easily in either inner well.

 

 

I fail to see the correlation here. Why would it be any more difficult to see in a new style well vs. the old style?

[OldGuy]

The good news is that most damage associated with SCS can be fixed by pressing.

[namisgr]

Besides bent-under edges and corners, I believe that SCS will sometimes manifest as a fuzzy spine corner or a rounded right edge corner. Coupled with the obvious bends, I think SCS is alot more common than 10 in 1500 but not as common as 40%. Many of these cases can't be 'fixed' by pressing, either.

 

The culprits are more than simply a couple of mailings. There's alot of dealer stock that gets trucked from show to show to show, with plenty of opportunity to experience damage in the slab while bumping along on the road or being carted to and from the show booth.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

[Conan_Aficionado]

This is why I love low grade books. Heck, you can toss them around the room and they'd probably still grade the same. Hoo-rah for poor to fine books.

 

Disclaimer: This comment has been made by an individual who can't afford CGC'd books.

[LordRahl]

Besides bent-under edges and corners, I believe that SCS will sometimes manifest as a fuzzy spine corner or a rounded right edge corner. Coupled with the obvious bends, I think SCS is alot more common than 10 in 1500 but not as common as 40%. Many of these cases can't be 'fixed' by pressing, either.

 

The culprits are more than simply a couple of mailings. There's alot of dealer stock that gets trucked from show to show to show, with plenty of opportunity to experience damage in the slab while bumping along on the road or being carted to and from the show booth.

 

I'm not sure about this. How would a fuzzy spine corner be caused by the slab? The rounded right edge corner would also be a bent over corner wouldn't it? How would a corner lose paper from SCS? I can see it getting bent over but not rounded in the sense that the paper is missing.

[namisgr]

There's impact damage and there's frictional damage (from rubbing). I think both occur sometimes in the inner well of a slab. There can even be stress placed on the cover at the staples, as the interior is heavier and can carry more momentum than the cover when the slab is accelerated or decelerated suddenly.

[Ted Knight]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

 

Yes. Mesmerized. I keep wanting to watch it again and again. I don't understand why...

[djpinkpanther67]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

 

Yes. Mesmerized. I keep wanting to watch it again and again. I don't understand why...

You know why.

[fantastic_four]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

 

Yes. Mesmerized. I keep wanting to watch it again and again. I don't understand why...

 

Like myself, you're probably HUGE fans of girls who really love Sprite.

[Paul_Maul]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

It always amazes me how many here downplay this issue whenever it's broached. I don't know if it's just too painful to acknowledge that this system is fundamentally flawed or what. Maybe some people just aren't looking at the books that closely. I've seen numerous posts in the "brag threads" with people showing off 9.6-9.8 books with obvious damage, seemingly oblivious.

 

This Hulk 181 9.9 really seals it though. The emperor has no clothes.

 

 

[Ted Knight]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

 

Yes. Mesmerized. I keep wanting to watch it again and again. I don't understand why...

You know why.

 

 

 

Like myself, you're probably HUGE fans of girls who really love Sprite.

 

I've just never seen anything quite like that, but yes, I am now a huge fan of girls who love Sprite.

 

It's pretty clever, man. (thumbs u

[toysmania]

Is that a new signature FF?

 

I am mesmerized.

 

Yes. Mesmerized. I keep wanting to watch it again and again. I don't understand why...

You know why.

 

 

 

Like myself, you're probably HUGE fans of girls who really love Sprite.

 

I've just never seen anything quite like that, but yes, I am now a huge fan of girls who love Sprite.

 

It's pretty clever, man. (thumbs u

 

Logically shouldn't she choke?

[sborock]

I submit that, particularly for the old-style inner well, likely 40% of 9.6 and 9.8 graded books are in reality far lower grade.

 

I submit that 90% of all unprovable statistics are semi-randomly pulled out of someone's .

 

Nowhere near 40% of the hundreds of books I've gotten suffer from SCS; MAYBE 5%, maybe less. But let's assume you're correct. What do you recommend...or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

 

Of course I have no proof of my conjecture, just my own anecdotal experience. I never claimed to be a huge volume buyer of slabs, but each time I take the plunge and pick up a small group of slabs (always in 9.6 and up), I have never had the entire order be acceptable. There are always at least two or three books with slab damage out of orders that probably average 5-8 books. So anecdotally, I'd put it at 25-40% or so for me.

 

 

I find this hard to believe. Not saying this did not happen to you, but I have shipped 100's of CGC comics and I have not gotten one email that a book had SCS. I know, I got lucky. If I am wrong, I am sure, one of our fellow members will remind me that I shipped them a book and I had to refund their money

 

I, now, look at hundreds, sometimes a thousand, CGC books a month, and very, very few have SCS.

 

Yes, I know, I used to head CGC, but my living counts on eye for detail when helping a consigner or buying for Heritage, so I look at every book in the holder when I am buying or getting a consignment. What I have seen is that SCS is minimal. That said, and I have stated this before, whether a comic is in a CGC holder, a mylar, a fortress, or a bag and board, if not handled correctly, it can be damaged.

 

Just my

 

 

[CKB]

1. Don't buy from anyone that does not accept returns. Not all 9.6s and 9.8s are the same. Also, accept that you are going to have to pay the return costs.

 

2. I disagree about the old-style well. The damage that can occur in the new wells, if the book is slabbed too "loosely", is worse. And it's doubly worse, because it's not so easily seen.

In my experience, poor handling combined with "loose" slabbing can hurt a book just as easily in either inner well.

 

 

I fail to see the correlation here. Why would it be any more difficult to see in a new style well vs. the old style?

 

namisgr hit on this a few posts up - the new style wells, if they hold the cover tightly, but not the interior, can allow the interior to move around while holding the cover in place. This creates tears at the staples, harder to see than corner bumps.

 

This kind of thing isn't really too big of a concern on the old style wells. But, corner and edge damage can be (unlike the new style wells).