Why is Spiderman as iconic as Superman?

[ComicConnoisseur]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

 

I like him, but I have to admit he's problematic. They made him far too powerful and it's hard to find competition for someone who is closer to omniscient than almost every superhero who followed him. I think most creators learned from the mistakes with him to make superheroes more vulnerable.

 

I don't find that to be a problem. I have always enjoyed most Superman stuff I have read. Certainly not all knowing, maybe all powerful. The fact that he can do just about anything he wants is part of the vulnerability of the character. He has to choose the right things to do, realizing that he has a tremendous responsibility.

 

 

I'm with you, Dale. I've never been bored by Supes. I'm frankly not that interested in a superhero that I can identity with. Superheroes should be larger than life, and Supes has always fit that bill.

I agree as well. (thumbs u

 

[Dale Roberts]

[fantastic_four]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

 

I like him, but I have to admit he's problematic. They made him far too powerful and it's hard to find competition for someone who is closer to omniscient than almost every superhero who followed him. I think most creators learned from the mistakes with him to make superheroes more vulnerable.

 

I don't find that to be a problem. I have always enjoyed most Superman stuff I have read. Certainly not all knowing, maybe all powerful. The fact that he can do just about anything he wants is part of the vulnerability of the character. He has to choose the right things to do, realizing that he has a tremendous responsibility.

 

 

I'm with you, Dale. I've never been bored by Supes. I'm frankly not that interested in a superhero that I can identity with. Superheroes should be larger than life, and Supes has always fit that bill.

 

That's also why I enjoy him, but from the point of view of writing scripts for him, it severely limits your creativity when the primary conflict you can create for him is to come up with creative new uses for Kryptonite. I loved the first five seasons of Smallville, but that was the major problem with the show, finding challenges for Clark to face that weren't based upon his single weakness.

[VintageComics]

I can buy into the notion that Spiderman is more popular than Superman (certainly among the under-40 crowd, not so sure about the over-40 crowd), but saying that Spiderman is as iconic as Superman is like saying Homer Simpson is as iconic as Mickey Mouse... for myself, I think it's a stretch. Globally, Superman is as much a symbol of Americana as apple pie and baseball (much like Mickey is). Spiderman is certainly an important and valuable character and does have a strong following among people drawn to this corner of pop culture, but at the end of the day I think the average person on the street just views him as a superhero... one of many. Superman imparts so much more historically and symbolically ("truth, justice and the American way" and all that).

 

There is an air of familiarity with Superman that comes with his global iconic status. Most people will recognize the name Clark Kent... a lot of poeple will know that Spiderman's name is "Peter" (but what's his last name?). Most people will recognize the name of Superman's love interest "Lois Lane;" not sure that the same could be said about Mary Jane Watson. Most people would recognize that Superman lives in "Metropolis" (a real city even markets it); do most people know that Spiderman is New York based? More people would recognize the "Daily Planet" than the "Daily Bugle" and most would know that "kryptonite" is Superman's weakness (it's even used in modern jargon). Now this is all my supposition of course-- it would be an interesting poll to take of people just walking down the street in this country and others -- but man, the whole world would recognize that big red "S" and what it stands for when they see it... and when we talk "icons" I think that's what we mean.

 

This is a very good breakdown. I think age has a lot to do with it.

 

I remember a board member who went abroad (middle east possibly) and was greeted by a kid in a Spider-man costume.

 

Spider-man's popularity is definitely world renowned. It's just not as entrenched as Superman's, who has 20 years on Spidey.

 

 

[500Club]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

Lame? No.

 

One dimensional? Maybe.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

 

I like him, but I have to admit he's problematic. They made him far too powerful and it's hard to find competition for someone who is closer to omniscient than almost every superhero who followed him. I think most creators learned from the mistakes with him to make superheroes more vulnerable.

 

I don't find that to be a problem. I have always enjoyed most Superman stuff I have read. Certainly not all knowing, maybe all powerful. The fact that he can do just about anything he wants is part of the vulnerability of the character. He has to choose the right things to do, realizing that he has a tremendous responsibility.

 

 

I'm with you, Dale. I've never been bored by Supes. I'm frankly not that interested in a superhero that I can identity with. Superheroes should be larger than life, and Supes has always fit that bill.

 

That's also why I enjoy him, but from the point of view of writing scripts for him, it severely limits your creativity when the primary conflict you can create for him is to come up with creative new uses for Kryptonite. I loved the first five seasons of Smallville, but that was the major problem with the show, finding challenges for Clark to face that weren't based upon his single weakness.

 

I have posted this more than once. There are several very easy stories to write for a movie that doesn't involve Kryptonite at all.

 

First off, you could have Luthor or Brainiac try to create there own clone of Superman, and end up creating Bizarro. Maybe don't make him quite as dumb as the comics, but more of an evil undead Zombie type (like in Justice by Alex Ross).

 

You could again feature Brainiac as the main villain, mirroring the animated series, where Brainiac is the personification of a Kryptonian super computer, who is incredibly strong and maybe have the premise that he wants Superman's DNA to create a new Krypton society.

 

Or you could have Luthor (again trying to create a super powerful foe for Superman) create the parasite or Metallo(guess this would involve Kryptonite).

 

Or you could even have Solomon Grundy be involved, if you wanted to do more than one villain.

 

Or you could do something with an Alien invasion or national disaster, or even Darkseid (Apokalips invades earth).

 

Lots of pretty easy stories if you ask me.

[Mac Man]

I think it's important to contextualize the question before responding.

 

First, I'm assuming the question is prompted by the recent sale of the monster 9.6 AF 15. Probably a safe bet. I would first offer that the book was originally owned by someone living in Western society sold through a Western business, and most likely was sold to another Westerner. And that's not even addressing the item in question, it's creators, primary (initial) audience, and the subject matter--all steeped in the West.

 

So, I think I would refine this question as asking: "Why is Spider-Man as iconic as Superman in Western societies?" As others pointed out (loved the Ellison quite by the way), Non-Western countries approach icons and iconography from a different social & cultural basis, and I'd be awfully hesitant to apply Western notions to Non-Western peoples.

 

Now, why is Spider-Man so popular in the West (North America, Europe, etc) especially in comparison to Superman? I think much of it has to do with reasons why Batman is so popular: Humanity. While Superman is a champion of humanity, he is Kyptonian. He masquerades as Clark Kent, simple farm boy from the heartland, but he is not one of us at his core. Both Batman and Spider-man, however, are human beings and they masquerade as being superhuman. Even if you strip away the genetic mutation from the radioactive spider, Peter Parker would still be Peter Parker. If you remove the money, the gadgets, and cowl, Bruce Wayne is still Bruce Wayne. This ultimately informs the way in which they relate to and approach the world around them in a fundamentally different way than Superman. Further, it informs the ways in which their audiences relate to them as well.

 

Now, I'd also argue that the reasons that make Superman slightly less iconic for Westerners are the very reasons why he is so much more relatable to a larger audience--not necessarily saying he is a top-tier icon in Non-Western cultures, but at least recognizable. He is less tied down to Western values and epitomizes some of the general aspects of humanity that many cultures do value in their "supermen"--speed, strength, quick wits, generosity, and selflessness to name a few. So, while his "flawlessness" works against him in a society that likes to see "flawed" heroes, it also creates less problems in terms of his ability to transcend multiple cultures.

 

(And sorry for the overly lengthy response. This is actually some of what I'm going to be working on with my doctoral dissertation, so it's fairly near and dear to my heart )

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

 

I like him, but I have to admit he's problematic. They made him far too powerful and it's hard to find competition for someone who is closer to omniscient than almost every superhero who followed him. I think most creators learned from the mistakes with him to make superheroes more vulnerable.

 

I don't find that to be a problem. I have always enjoyed most Superman stuff I have read. Certainly not all knowing, maybe all powerful. The fact that he can do just about anything he wants is part of the vulnerability of the character. He has to choose the right things to do, realizing that he has a tremendous responsibility.

 

 

I'm with you, Dale. I've never been bored by Supes. I'm frankly not that interested in a superhero that I can identity with. Superheroes should be larger than life, and Supes has always fit that bill.

 

And that's the other reason why he has such a huge appeal internationally. Superman is a symbol of power, a symbol of respect, a symbol of greatness. Yes, in a broad way he represents America, but everyone knows Superman is not 'from there", so he is a fulfillment of "the American Dream", which much of the world has (even if they don't want to admit it all the time.)

 

And, nefariously, he's a symbol of an outsider who came there and essentially could wipe the place out if he wanted to. Dreams of ultimate power are compelling ones, again, especially to people in oppressed places.

 

Sure, Spidey relates to socially awkward teens who have the luxury of being socially awkward. It's a bit hard to worry about who you're going to take to the prom when 1. there isn't a prom, 2. you're trying to keep food in your family's bellies, and 3. you're trying to not get shot/sold into slavery/diseased, etc.

 

Oh, and the Box Office takes don't mean that much..some, but not too much. Those are a function of the films, rather than the popularity of the characters. Superman (1978) made buckets of money, and adjusted for inflation, holds its own quite well against Spidey. So does Batman, for that matter. In fact, adjusted for inflation, Supes has made $1,034,000,000, and Spidey $1,140,000,000, roughly, worldwide. That's not too far apart (especially when you compare the difference in theatres and filmgoing worldwide between 1978 and 2002.)

[Junkdrawer]

Spider-man wasn't always a superhero, he was a wimpy kid. After recognizing his new found powers and how to benefit from them he tried wrestling, but did not get the reward he expected. Instead of accepting this suffering, he lashed out and turned his back on someone in a time of need, later feeling the affects as Uncle Ben suffered the consequences. Peter really wasn't recognized as a hero until he decided to use his new powers by sacrificing himself for society's sake.

Spider-Man was a hero made...Superman was born

[jools&jim]

 

Dreams of ultimate power are compelling ones, again, especially to people in oppressed places...

 

...so compelling, in fact, that those characters and what they represent sometimes run afoul of the oppressors:

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3601672,00.html

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/11/14/iran-declares-war-on-spider-man/

 

Note for score-keepers: Spider-Man is name-checked in both stories, but Supes in only one...

[VintageComics]

Dreams of ultimate power are compelling ones, again, especially to people in oppressed places...

 

...so compelling, in fact, that those characters and what they represent sometimes run afoul of the oppressors:

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3601672,00.html

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/11/14/iran-declares-war-on-spider-man/

 

Note for score-keepers: Spider-Man is name-checked in both stories, but Supes in only one...

 

I think MJ would look super hot wearing only a burka.

 

[EastEnd]

I think Spider-Man is roughly tied with Batman for popularity, and Superman is behind them both.

 

Superman is lame, and hasn't really been relevant for years. Why is he placed first? Just because he came first?

 

Because he is the greatest comic book hero of all time.

 

Lame??? Come one. Maybe you don't like him, but that doesn't make him lame.

 

 

I like him, but I have to admit he's problematic. They made him far too powerful and it's hard to find competition for someone who is closer to omniscient than almost every superhero who followed him. I think most creators learned from the mistakes with him to make superheroes more vulnerable.

 

I don't find that to be a problem. I have always enjoyed most Superman stuff I have read. Certainly not all knowing, maybe all powerful. The fact that he can do just about anything he wants is part of the vulnerability of the character. He has to choose the right things to do, realizing that he has a tremendous responsibility.

 

 

I'm with you, Dale. I've never been bored by Supes. I'm frankly not that interested in a superhero that I can identity with. Superheroes should be larger than life, and Supes has always fit that bill.

 

That's also why I enjoy him, but from the point of view of writing scripts for him, it severely limits your creativity when the primary conflict you can create for him is to come up with creative new uses for Kryptonite. I loved the first five seasons of Smallville, but that was the major problem with the show, finding challenges for Clark to face that weren't based upon his single weakness.

 

I have posted this more than once. There are several very easy stories to write for a movie that doesn't involve Kryptonite at all.

 

First off, you could have Luthor or Brainiac try to create there own clone of Superman, and end up creating Bizarro. Maybe don't make him quite as dumb as the comics, but more of an evil undead Zombie type (like in Justice by Alex Ross).

 

You could again feature Brainiac as the main villain, mirroring the animated series, where Brainiac is the personification of a Kryptonian super computer, who is incredibly strong and maybe have the premise that he wants Superman's DNA to create a new Krypton society.

 

Or you could have Luthor (again trying to create a super powerful foe for Superman) create the parasite or Metallo(guess this would involve Kryptonite).

 

Or you could even have Solomon Grundy be involved, if you wanted to do more than one villain.

 

Or you could do something with an Alien invasion or national disaster, or even Darkseid (Apokalips invades earth).

 

Lots of pretty easy stories if you ask me.

 

I think the Doomsday storyline would make a great movie... would need a more creative way to bring him back though than DC came up with.

[EastEnd]

My goodness, does it get any more iconic than this...

 

 

[nearmint]

Spider-Man was a hero made...Superman was born

 

Completely false. Superman could have just as easily become a supervillain, or rejected his powers altogether and lived a normal life. Based on his upbringing, he chose to become a hero.

[Bookery]

 

It is a mistake to conflate iconic status with current popularity. Tarzan is a world-wide icon, yet is not particularly popular in terms of contemporary entertainment... in fact, I rather suspect there will never be another Tarzan movie. The Lone Ranger, MobyDick, Tom Sawyer-- all American icons, certainly, though they probably aren't read by very many people anymore.

 

Superman, though not the first super-hero, is the one that established the super-hero as a distinct genre. Spider-Man simply does not exist sans Superman. That alone makes Superman more iconic. If it weren't for Superman and the flood of imitators that followed, Stan Lee would have been writing Millie the Model well into the 1970s.

 

 

[Bat-Man]

Great questions.

 

Here's my

 

I think Batman and Spider-Man are tied for the popularity vote. And (besides) Superman in my opinion no other character comes close to there popularity. But don't get me wrong there are plenty of ultra popular characters out there.

 

 

But in the end I believe (call me "old school") that no matter how popular Spider-Man is he will never beat out Superman as an Icon.

 

 

And the end of the day, whether you like him or not, Superman is and always will be the "iconic" figure of comics.

 

 

All in my opinion.

 

 

 

I also do not think and other characters will come close to Spider-Man's popularity in the Marvel Universe. He is the most unique and and treasured of them all (again in MARVEL's universe)

 

(Batman wins all where I am concerned)

[ComicConnoisseur]

It is a mistake to conflate iconic status with current popularity. Tarzan is a world-wide icon, yet is not particularly popular in terms of contemporary entertainment... in fact, I rather suspect there will never be another Tarzan movie. The Lone Ranger, MobyDick, Tom Sawyer-- all American icons, certainly, though they probably aren't read by very many people anymore.

 

Superman, though not the first super-hero, is the one that established the super-hero as a distinct genre. Spider-Man simply does not exist sans Superman. That alone makes Superman more iconic. If it weren't for Superman and the flood of imitators that followed, Stan Lee would have been writing Millie the Model well into the 1970s.

 

. The latest comic sales thanks to Milton Griepp and ICv2.com

 

01/2011:

Batman #706 -- 60,231

Detective Comics #873 -- 38,417

Superman #707 41,843

Action Comics #897 -- 32,134

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN

#651 - 56,749 #652 - 52,050

so you can see Superman is holding his own against the other two icons.

For all you people who like the dark n gritty superheroes

your Wolverine is 46,920 copies per month.

So Superman is even holding his own against this style of playa.

[nearmint]

It is a mistake to conflate iconic status with current popularity. Tarzan is a world-wide icon, yet is not particularly popular in terms of contemporary entertainment... in fact, I rather suspect there will never be another Tarzan movie. The Lone Ranger, MobyDick, Tom Sawyer-- all American icons, certainly, though they probably aren't read by very many people anymore.

 

Superman, though not the first super-hero, is the one that established the super-hero as a distinct genre. Spider-Man simply does not exist sans Superman. That alone makes Superman more iconic. If it weren't for Superman and the flood of imitators that followed, Stan Lee would have been writing Millie the Model well into the 1970s.

 

 

Stephen Sommers is rumored to be prepping a new Tarzan movie for 2013.

[ComicConnoisseur]

It is a mistake to conflate iconic status with current popularity. Tarzan is a world-wide icon, yet is not particularly popular in terms of contemporary entertainment... in fact, I rather suspect there will never be another Tarzan movie. The Lone Ranger, MobyDick, Tom Sawyer-- all American icons, certainly, though they probably aren't read by very many people anymore.

 

Superman, though not the first super-hero, is the one that established the super-hero as a distinct genre. Spider-Man simply does not exist sans Superman. That alone makes Superman more iconic. If it weren't for Superman and the flood of imitators that followed, Stan Lee would have been writing Millie the Model well into the 1970s.

 

 

Stephen Sommers is rumored to be prepping a new Tarzan movie for 2013.

I hope it will deal with the original book, I am so sick of Tarzan/Phantom stories in New York.

[Boba]

I think the movies were successful because Spider-Man was such a popular character, not vice-versa.

 

Good point. Where as on the other hand I think the Iron Man movies really helped out his popularity.

 

Spidey is a character that is more identifiable for a kid/teen/young adult than the old Superman. Has DC ever rebooted the Superman series and had Superman as a teen/young adult ? I can only think of Smallville which is/was on for ten seasons ?

 

There were 100 episodes of The Adventures of Superboy from 1988-1992. Not to mention the Superboy comic, that was published for 28 years.

 

Even more important were the Fleisher Superman cartoons which were shown at the movie theatres from the early 1940s. Were shown in addition to feature presentations as shorts(generally about 15 minutes), and so were exposed to a wide variety of different people.

 

By the way, if you have not seen these, you should get them. They are fantastic.

 

 

Got the DVD from Amazon.

I agree, It's great (thumbs u

Comics - Superman started it all.

And it took a superman to do it.

 

Spier-Man just had a great warm-up band.