Top Overstreet grade now 9.2

[sterlingcomics]

Tight graders....this problem isn't going away unless grading becomes a specific science....some dealers have a system that works well, others don't. Sellers have used this subjectivity to their advantage whenever possible. If everyone graded tight we wouldn't need CGC now, would we?

 

I think in general the system will be manipulated to maximize profits. To some extent this is control being exerted by those with power. Cause and effect.

[ArAich]

are you saying that they are trying to limit 9.4 price increases by simply ignoring them in the guide?

 

I guess that is what I am saying...at this point in history 9.2 seems to reflect "real world" pricing while 9.4 is totally out of whack as far as guide values...so I would venture to guess that they chose to drop it all together to bring the guide into line with real world priceing....JMO...

[sterlingcomics]

are you saying that they are trying to limit 9.4 price increases by simply ignoring them in the guide?

 

I guess that is what I am saying...at this point in history 9.2 seems to reflect "real world" pricing while 9.4 is totally out of whack as far as guide values...so I would venture to guess that they chose to drop it all together to bring the guide into line with real world priceing....JMO...

 

Sounds cool--thanks!

 

To me, it is just a system of control...

[fantastic_four]

Tight graders....this problem isn't going away unless grading becomes a specific science....some dealers have a system that works well, others don't. Sellers have used this subjectivity to their advantage whenever possible. If everyone graded tight we wouldn't need CGC now, would we?

 

Which dealers can grade to within 0.2 accuracy? You can probably count the total number who have thought about grading THAT much on your fingers, perhaps even on one hand. Even CGC graders don't, which is part of the thinking behind having three of them look at every book. And even with three different opinions, CGC books still appear to change grades on resubmitting around 20% to 30% of the time. As you say, grading just isn't enough of a science yet, even for the pros. The scale should be phased back to 15 or 20 notches until the standards catch up to it.

[Zonker]

are you saying that they are trying to limit 9.4 price increases by simply ignoring them in the guide?

 

I guess that is what I am saying...at this point in history 9.2 seems to reflect "real world" pricing while 9.4 is totally out of whack as far as guide values...so I would venture to guess that they chose to drop it all together to bring the guide into line with real world priceing....JMO...

 

Exactly my thought: the Overstreet 9.2 price = slabbed 9.2 price argument is at least plausible and so the whole "Are these slabbed or unslabbed prices?" question gets deferred for another year.

[awe4one]

Exactly my thought: the Overstreet 9.2 price = slabbed 9.2 price argument is at least plausible and so the whole "Are these slabbed or unslabbed prices?" question gets deferred for another year.

 

Nah...I still don't buy it if that's the rational. The Guide should provide guidance on all grades up to NM regardless whether slabbed copies are pulling more dough. Remember....comics that have been slabbed are a very small portion of all that's out there. Just because the slabbed ones get the big money and thus more attention doesn't mean you start tailoring the guide to that demographic. There probably will be a time to do so.....but that's way down the line in my opinion; not this year.

 

This seems more a dealer focused decision to allow maximum flexibility to price slabbed or unslabbed NM/9.4 comics, more than a problem with the hows and whys of the current marketplace.

 

Jim

[fantastic_four]

Nah...I still don't buy it if that's the rational. The Guide should provide guidance on all grades up to NM regardless whether slabbed copies are pulling more dough. Remember....comics that have been slabbed are a very small portion of all that's out there.

 

What about the raw 9.4 and better Gold, Silver, and Bronze books which have been pulling multiples of Overstreet NM for decades? Remember that story from Zillatoy where he said Overstreet himself offered him 6x guide back in the early 90s for that first appearance of Sgt. Rock in NM? Not that this one example defines the market, but it's representative of what people have been willing to pay for truly nice books long before slabbing came along, and even before the pedigree concept came into play.

[awe4one]

What about the raw 9.4 and better Gold, Silver, and Bronze books which have been pulling multiples of Overstreet NM for decades? Remember that story from Zillatoy where he said Overstreet himself offered him 6x guide back in the early 90s for that first appearance of Sgt. Rock in NM? Not that this one example defines the market, but it's representative of what people have been willing to pay for truly nice books long before slabbing came along, and even before the pedigree concept came into play.

 

And that's my point....OS has always had criticism for SOME NM copies going for more than the guide says. Yet they have continued because the bulk of raw NM copies did go for near guide. That hasn't changed. The only change has been for slabbed copies that rabid fanboys are willing to pay premium prices for. These sales aren't a majority of the market. It's just the most visible because of the prices....

 

Jim

[Aman619]

BINGO!!! I AGREE COMPLETELY. This is just Overstreets lates retreat from 'Mint' prices to stay abreast with market changes...and, neatly buffers their top prices from any future c-r-a-s-h/'return to normalcy' pricing that may occur..... Lets all just take it in stride and move onward. The Annusl Guide will NEVER EVER be accurate up and down the line on street prices. Books that trade regularly will always sell for more when they can, and less when they must regardless of what number Bob's people publish.

[fantastic_four]

Yet they have continued because the bulk of raw NM copies did go for near guide.

 

Actual NM copies, or copies reported to Overstreet as NM that he had no way to verify and knew were most likely not that high a grade?

[Zonker]

What about the raw 9.4 and better Gold, Silver, and Bronze books which have been pulling multiples of Overstreet NM for decades? Remember that story from Zillatoy where he said Overstreet himself offered him 6x guide back in the early 90s for that first appearance of Sgt. Rock in NM? Not that this one example defines the market, but it's representative of what people have been willing to pay for truly nice books long before slabbing came along, and even before the pedigree concept came into play.

 

And that's my point....OS has always had criticism for SOME NM copies going for more than the guide says. Yet they have continued because the bulk of raw NM copies did go for near guide. That hasn't changed. The only change has been for slabbed copies that rabid fanboys are willing to pay premium prices for. These sales aren't a majority of the market. It's just the most visible because of the prices....

 

Jim

 

I wonder.

 

I'm usually among the first to point out that the CGC market does not equal the back issue comic book market as a whole. But I wonder if that is true when we're talking about true NM Golden Age and early Silver Age?

[awe4one]

Yet they have continued because the bulk of raw NM copies did go for near guide.

 

Actual NM copies, or copies reported to Overstreet as NM that he had no way to verify and knew were most likely not that high a grade?

 

That's why they have OS advisors that should be trusted to give him correct info. If he has to wonder whether his "advisor" is trustworthy then that dealer shouldn't be in that position....

 

Jim

[ArAich]

That's why they have OS advisors that should be trusted to give him correct info.

 

I knew it!!!...It's all Darths fault!!!...

[justiceleaguer]

Exactly my thought: the Overstreet 9.2 price = slabbed 9.2 price argument is at least plausible and so the whole "Are these slabbed or unslabbed prices?" question gets deferred for another year.

 

 

Why should there be a different price for an unslabbed 9.2 and a slabbed 9.2??? It makes no sense. Having the security of a third party grading it should not be an excuse to invent a new pricing scheme for slabbed books. The comic book market is still primarily driven by raw comics, so if your the minority who wants that guarantee of an exact grade then YOU should pay the premium for having it encapsulated. However, when you decide to sell the book it should be going for guide value regardless of encapsulation or not. If im buying a 9.0 off you im not paying more than 9.0 dictated pricing.....i dont care if you spent the extra dough having it graded, it was your decision. You having it graded should only of been done to ensure the grade you thought it was, and to make the customer more comfortable and sure about buying from you. The dealer or individual who paid to encapsulate it should ALWAYS suck up the cost, not the customer. Personally, i feel overstreet should really be determining fixed prices for 9.2,9.4,9.6,9.8,9.9, and 10's. I know everyone will disagree, but doing that would cause complete and utter STABILITY in the marketplace.

[shadroch]

I think this is an attempt by the guide folks to edjumicate people about just how rare books in 9.4.

Watch raw 9.4 modern books run out the door as the great unwashed pick up books in conditions so rare,THE GUIDE doesn't even list them. Can't wait to see what Chuckles can do with this opportunity.

[awe4one]

I'm usually among the first to point out that the CGC market does not equal the back issue comic book market as a whole. But I wonder if that is true when we're talking about true NM Golden Age and early Silver Age?

 

You know I could live with it if OS went to the 9.2 notation for those timeframes. Hell some of those comics don't even have copies existing that could be considered 9.4. But to do so across the whole market is a very unwise decision.

 

Jim

[fantastic_four]

That's why they have OS advisors that should be trusted to give him correct info. If he has to wonder whether his "advisor" is trustworthy then that dealer shouldn't be in that position....

 

Oh, how I do wish this were the way it worked...

 

For the most part, it does, and I have no doubt that Gemstone does the best job they can in picking the advisors, but very few of them can detect the majority of the restoration techniques out there, and many of them are 1 to 2 notches off on their grading--some even more. I guess we can start naming names if you'd like, although we've done it dozens of times in the past...

[awe4one]

For the most part, it does, and I have no doubt that Gemstone does the best job they can in picking the advisors, but very few of them can detect the majority of the restoration techniques out there, and many of them are 1 to 2 notches off on their grading--some even more. I guess we can start naming names if you'd like, although we've done it dozens of times in the past...

 

One...restoration has absolutely no play here, not sure why you're bringing it up....

 

Also, grading difference have been around since back issue market started. OS takes what the advisors say and incorporates that into the guide. They have multiple advisors so any change would/should be a concensus. None of this has changed from prior years.

 

Jim

[drice6900]

I knew it!!!...It's all Darths fault!!!...

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Personally, i feel overstreet should really be determining fixed prices for 9.2,9.4,9.6,9.8,9.9, and 10's. I know everyone will disagree, but doing that would cause complete and utter STABILITY in the marketplace.

 

You're kidding right? There should be LESS price-fixing in the Guide, not more. Its supposed to be a reflection of the marketplace, not the ultimate determinant of values.