Infinite Bronze Horror Thread 16 16

[shiverbones]

As to the ghosts #65, how tough is hard to quantify, but it was the final issue needed for mine & 2 others collection of ghosts, and a copy in any grade has not been available on lonestar or mile high for over a year, possibly 2. I have bought over 10 misc lots of ghost sin that tim eperiod and it was never included, even though surrounding number were.

[shrunkenhead]

Hmm..maybe I misunderstood Jbud too, but I thought the "I detest" line was a reference to my earlier posting. Sorry if I misinterpreted...

[greggy]

Although slightly to the concept of DC bronze collecting, I want to address your point about why I tend to only slab 100 pagers that I feel are 9.4 or better. It's simple economics because I do tend to upgrade whenever fiscally possible. Therefore, I have to be aware of the potential resale value of some of the books that I have upgraded.

 

In the past, when CGC first started and I was grading basically all my nice Marvels for resale, I wasn't that concerned about the 9.4 threshold, as I was mainly grading Silver Age books bought long ago so I wasn't worried about getting my money back. The CGC market was much hotter to the lesser grade books a couple of years ago. It has slowed considerably so that's why I have to be so picky. The fact that I am slabbing DCs mainly doesn't help, as most of the buyers are Marvel fans.

 

Hope this explains my rationale.

[BachelorOfComix]

As to the ghosts #65, how tough is hard to quantify, but it was the final issue needed for mine & 2 others collection of ghosts, and a copy in any grade has not been available on lonestar or mile high for over a year, possibly 2. I have bought over 10 misc lots of ghost sin that tim eperiod and it was never included, even though surrounding number were.

There's one on Ebay in a 4 Ghosts lot for $4 & MH has 2 at least copies in stock right now.

[BassGMan]

I think anyone who buys comics in the 21st century as an "investment" should probably take their dollars to the horsetrack.

 

Goodness, if that's not one of the most uninormed, or just plain wrong quotes I've heard in a long time, I just don't know what is.

 

Regarding investments, they don't all work out, but comics that I have purchased over the last few years and am selling now, are for the most part VERY profitable. Great investment opportunities out there right now in comics, IF you know what you are doing, and IF you do your homework. Also great deals to be had under the same circumstances. I'm a collector and small-time dealer. I'm finding great books at great prices to buy, sell and keep. Of course I pass up many books that are not priced low enough to meet my criteria, but there are enough books that are priced right for me, in the desired grade that makes for a very good investment or treasured keeper. ----------Sid

[precodekeith]

Maybe I misread Jbud's post, but i didn't think he was referring to you. .

 

I'm with Shivs, I didn't think jbud was talking about you directly, Shrunk.

 

My feelings were that the statement was made about the type of folks who see that a HoM in 9.6 went for big multiples of guide and decided that, after ignoring or even snubbing the horror genre for years, maybe HoM and co. were "good" after all since money can be made on them. When in fact the books were "good" all along to those that read, collected, and enjoyed them.

 

I felt he was talking about the type of person who only cares that a book has Wrightson or Kaluta art because it will bring him more money, not because he actually loves the form. The type of person that many months from now, discovers that Sad Sack is selling over guide, and will suddenly "find" that Sad Sack is a "good" title for him to start buying up, and hopefully dump his horror books back into the market at a loss ..... (sarcasm, folks)

 

But hey, that's just how I read it. Only Jbud can clarify.

[awe4one]

I think anyone who buys comics in the 21st century as an "investment" should probably take their dollars to the horsetrack.

 

Goodness, if that's not one of the most uninormed, or just plain wrong quotes I've heard in a long time, I just don't know what is.

 

Bull...it's a very apt quote. Comics aren't guaranteed to be worth more in five years or even two. Anyone...and I mean anyone...who are throwing all their retirement funds into buying comics in the hope that 30 years down the road they'll be living the high life is living a pipe dream. People are more secure putting their money into legitimate retirement funds than comics.

 

There is no growth in new collectors coming into this hobby. As the old ones die off there won't be an equal number of newbies to take their place. This will eventually cause a "glut", for a lack of a better term, of material in relation to the number of collectors out there. Lowering the price...

 

To think otherwise is being misinformed...

 

Jim

[sterlingcomics]

Personally I detest the, its only good if its valuable thought process in comics. BA horror is great beyond the speculation impulses because the stories and art are awesome......

 

Amen!

 

That's why I collect what I love. I'm with greggy though--I have to buy/flip Marvel books to feed my DC habit. Long Live BA Horror! BTW, this is a depressing topic and one I've heard a zillion times with JC-let's get back to the stories and art.

[awe4one]

BTW, this is a depressing topic and one I've heard a zillion times with JC-let's get back to the stories and art.

 

Juast because it's depressing doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated. But this is not the thread to debate it so I agree...back to talking about Bronze horror.

 

By the way, I have a couple of questions on some Charltons and will post them, with questions, when they arrive (hopefully Monday)...

 

Jim

[Jayman]

As to the ghosts #65, how tough is hard to quantify, but it was the final issue needed for mine & 2 others collection of ghosts, and a copy in any grade has not been available on lonestar or mile high for over a year, possibly 2. I have bought over 10 misc lots of ghost sin that tim eperiod and it was never included, even though surrounding number were.

 

Ghosts # 65 was the last holdout for my run also. I think it took about two years for me to locate a HG copy, # 67 was also a bear for me.

[BassGMan]

I think anyone who buys comics in the 21st century as an "investment" should probably take their dollars to the horsetrack.

 

Goodness, if that's not one of the most uninormed, or just plain wrong quotes I've heard in a long time, I just don't know what is.

 

Bull...it's a very apt quote. Comics aren't guaranteed to be worth more in five years or even two. Anyone...and I mean anyone...who are throwing all their retirement funds into buying comics in the hope that 30 years down the road they'll be living the high life is living a pipe dream. People are more secure putting their money into legitimate retirement funds than comics.

 

There is no growth in new collectors coming into this hobby. As the old ones die off there won't be an equal number of newbies to take their place. This will eventually cause a "glut", for a lack of a better term, of material in relation to the number of collectors out there. Lowering the price...

 

To think otherwise is being misinformed...

 

Jim

 

Bull, it's a very (un)apt quote. I don't think anyone here is talking about throwing their retirement funds into comics, or even thinking 30 years down the road. No specifics were mentioned in the quote so I am talking investing in comics generally. There is and has been MANY fantastic opportunities to invest in comics as years go by. It has been that way, and will stay that way (at least for the next decade or two). For me, I buy in lots on Ebay and at conventions. I buy books that I believe are undervalued and underpriced. I do not buy slabbed books for investment. I strictly buy raw. There is so much opportunity out there for both flipping AND investing (one to ten years) that I wish I had more money and time to take advantage of it all. NOTHING is guaranteed to be worth more in five years, not land, not stocks and not comics. And who is talking about living the high life down the road? Just simply talking investing in comics in the current age and making money at it is all. Geez, no reason to get so serious or to go any deeper than it is.

 

And this really isn't off topic. My buying, selling and investing over the past year or so has primarily been in bronze horror. As good, if not better than most other genres out there for investing right now.-------Sid

[precodekeith]

Well, they say sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut, so I guess I was charmed when I came up with multiples of GHOSTS 65 when I started putting together that run. And I STILL need 15 other issues to finish it up. (Must admit, funds are tight right now and I put plenty of other titles on a higher priority watch/buy list.)

 

However, you won't get an arguement outta me, because I do agree that it is a tougher book for whatever reason. They pop up less often for sure. I just got lucky.

[awe4one]

Bull, it's a very (un)apt quote.

 

Nice try on spinning your way out of it...

 

The guy specifically mentioned buying comics as "investments" in the 21st Century not buy comics today to flip tomorrow. Anyone can look at the current marketplace and flip comics to make a profit if you know what you're doing. That's an entirely different beast than investing. And that's the comment you attributed as being uninformed.

 

Only a fool would consider "investing" in anything other than a few select comics. And most of those are already outside the collecting budgets of most collectors.

 

And I would add Bronze horror wouldn't make the cut...

 

Jim

[BassGMan]

I wouldn't call flipping as investing at all. But I would call seeing an oportunity like the new interest coming into bronze horror as an opportunity to invest in some nice books and profit in two to five years. THAT is what I am talking about (as an example) regarding investing, and we are currently in the 21st century, so I think it applies. No guarantees, but prospects look good. Same thing for other genres (mainly select superhero books) over the last several decades including the last several years (2000 and beyond). Hey, it works for me. ---------Sid

[namisgr]

Some of the most horrific examples of Bronze horror are undergrounds featuring the work of Richard Corben. Any other Corben horror fans out there?

 

[awe4one]

I wouldn't call flipping as investing at all. But I would call seeing an oportunity like the new interest coming into bronze horror as an opportunity to invest in some nice books and profit in two to five years.

 

Now I'd be careful there...we are currently in the third "renaissance" of horror comics I've seen. The first two, early 70s and early 90s, did in fact have increases in the price of back issues in a very short period of time. When the renaissance ended though, the demand for horror dropped like a rock.

 

It's all cyclic. So in five years time, you could very well be selling at a significant loss vs. the windfall you were expecting.

 

Jim

[jbud73]

Well, jbud, I'm sorry you thought that my questions were geared towards "what's worth the most $$$", as that was not at all where I was coming from. I'm speaking strictly in terms of what's tougher to get in what grade, because as a collector, that's predominantly my interest. Like almost everybody else on these boards, I have a limited income, and I want to spend what dollars I can afford on the toughest books to find in grade, because as a collector, that's just what's appealing to me. NOT because I plan to flip books someday for untold profits. I think anyone who buys comics in the 21st century as an "investment" should probably take their dollars to the horsetrack. You'll agonize over losing your money quicker and at least you'll have a few exciting minutes to boot.

 

That's why I'm asking around, trying to get a feel for how tough it is to get bronze horror slabbed in 9.6 It would simply disappoint me on a personal level to buy a few books and then find out in 5 years that there's 60 copies of the same book slabbed in identical grade. I wouldn't, however, be disappointed on a financial level, as I only buy what I can afford, not what I hope to get some kind of stellar return on someday.

 

I also think that a lot of people are slabbing books without necessarily having the intention of selling them. Look at greggy's recent registry, for example. He's said on this thread that he only slabs books that he thinks will receive 9.4 or better. Why bother, if he's not going to sell them? (I assume he's not planning to, as he seems to genuinely cherish them so). Because CGC has created a new breed of collector, for good or for ill. Yes, it's definitely easier to sell a slabbed HG book than a raw HG book, but there are a lot of collectors out there who simply prefer having their books in slabs, with no intention of ever selling them. Make of this what you will, but it's a trend that I've noticed has gained some upswing.

 

I'm simply interested in talking to collectors about their experiences in getting cool, tough books. I'm not trying to pick anyone's brain here for financial advice because bronze horror is "hot" or some speculator tripe like that. I thought you guys would've thought I had more integrity than that!

 

My quote was not entirely direct at you shrunk - it was just a notion based on having been through this before. I find there are more and more posts in BA horror directed at trying to ascertain the market - I think a reading of your comments indicated that you are doing this so as not to get on your purchases as a collector. But a lot of posts lately, not on this board entirely, is the specs trying to get a handle on what they can fleece the sheep for. I own a lot of BA Horror not as much as some but enough - so ppl may say hey whats your beef, you collection is appreciating in value, but its not. Speculator increases are only advantageous to the collector IF they decide to sell during the period of hype - spec or dramatic increase. I have no intention of selling, so that leaves me buying, if I choose to in an inflated spec market. I have been subject to this before in other sections of the comic marketplace - it gets tiresome from time to time and I was just blowing of steam. Sometimes collectors are lucky to finish or get what they need before the spec bubble sometimes not, mostly I've been lucky to get in early.

 

I have butted heads a little with others around here who's motives are not shall we say as pure. Look like any other collector I didnt create the knowledge I learned from others, but I have witnessed individuals come into niche markets before - obtain the necessary info and turn profits at the expense of the collector base. Its not like BA Horror needs to be some secret society, but lets not kid ourselves gentlemen we are at a point, not sure which on a partially spec driven upswing - too much info has passed my eyes to not see this as being true.

 

So sorry if you misinterpretted my response shrunk, it was not intended as a personal attack just a tad of frustration at being witness to the phenomenon yet again. Anyone with experience in Pre-Code should have a far easier time navigating the BA stuff - good luck and I hope that you will share you experiences good and bad as you venture into the genre.

 

PS. If I ever seriously venture into a Pre-Code Series I will be buying Poverty Row, keith, you and others a 6 hour conversation laden dinner.

[Bonds25]

Hope this explains my rationale.

 

[jbud73]

Personally I detest the, its only good if its valuable thought process in comics. BA horror is great beyond the speculation impulses because the stories and art are awesome......

 

Amen!

 

That's why I collect what I love. I'm with greggy though--I have to buy/flip Marvel books to feed my DC habit. Long Live BA Horror! BTW, this is a depressing topic and one I've heard a zillion times with JC-let's get back to the stories and art.

 

Did Stering just consider me a junior JC not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing . When is he coming back anyway??? I think the gap is starting to show. All right, all right Im off to take some prozac and since I seem to have been attributed to a downer section of the BA horror string I'll get it back with a recent Raw purchase - may have been posted before but this is my copy with WP

 

[shrunkenhead]

That dinner sounds good, jbud. If you really want some scoop on pre-code horror, make it lobster thermidor! Actually, chicken wings will be just fine.

 

And thanks for helping me out there, awe4one. As you point out, flipping and investing are two different beasts entirely, and it's important not to confuse one with the other. What I meant about investing in the 21st century is that the days of buying a comic for a dime and getting a multi-thousand dollar return are over, and they're never coming back. That's a comic fantasy held by the non-comic masses, just like when someone not into comics finds a bunch of beat-up 50's books in their attic, they automatically assume they've found a goldmine. That's pipe dream phantasy---the sort of empty rhetoric that dealers often prey upon.

 

I don't really consider buying a book and selling it two years later an "investment;" that sounds to me more like a flip that you sit on for a little while, but hey, the jargon is all relative I suppose. (An MBA might call it a "semi-lucrative short term investment" ) If you're able to buy a book cheaply and later resell it, awesome, but that's not an investment--that's a flip. It's not like there's anything so severely undervalued in guide that you're going to hold it for 5, 10, or 15 years and then suddenly make it big. The very fact that an Overstreet Price guide exists cancels out this kind of possibility. Comics have already been "found out", hence, their "investment" potential is more or less over....their collectability, however, is a different matter entirely.

 

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled bronze horror...