The not so easy way to success or how to be a struggling writer

[User 01001010]

I'm going to chronicle my adventures in publishing for all to read.

 

If you have no interest, there are other threads to read so what are you waiting for?

 

For those that have an interest, I'll tell of my expeirences in do it yourself, being published by small press and hopefully if it pans out, being published by a major indepentdent publisher.

 

The Beginning (This leads up to the present)

 

First some back story. I started writing for one reason only, after seeing the remake of Day of the Dead, I knew i could do better so hence my desire to write.

 

I always wanted to write comics but I had no idea how to do it. So i took the easy way and started with novels and short stories. My first published story was a little piece of flash fiction called "Through the looking glass" that was originally published online and has been included in the annual anthology from Six Sentences.

 

Not one to plan ahead, I moved to my first book, In Life Everyone Dies. pretty successful and it paved the way for my ego to get larger. It planted the seeds to make an attempt at writing not just as a hobby but to make it a career.

 

This led to the DMC Convention Preview that without Shortstack Comics pushing would have never seen the light of day. This involved Boozad, Lebowski, Artboy99, Shortstack Comics and Me. This was quickly put together for C2E2 in Chicago in 2010. The Cost was @ $750 for 50 copies between printing and design costs. This was given out for free at C2E2.

 

This is where i found out a lot of things that opened my eyes.

1. Putting together a -script to just have one to hand out at a convention is worse that having nothing to hand out at a con. I had written a -script for a book in 17 hours to sub, NEVER DO THAT. ALWAYS have a clean -script to sub. A few publishers showed minor interest in the title but the story was a mess. Looking back, i would have passed as well. Not well thought out and the flow was not the best. This will see the light of day, it is called The Inoocents.

2. Find a creative partner. Go 50/50 on a ip, publishers like nice and tidy, including teams to work on the book. I found my creative soulmate in chicago. Now we work together on almost everything.

3. Most creaters will give advice. MOST. And the advice is not always creative. Some will just say "don't bother". Best; Jim Valentino, Bob Layton & Tim Seely. Worst: Not burning any bridges

4. Dinner tastes even better when CGC pays for it, even if pirate was there

 

Next will be putting together Tales From The Dead, These Terrible Times and RED BAND. Baltimore Comic Con and Horrorfind Weekend 12.

[Chespirito]

I have an awesome idea for a book...I am too lazy to write it but, I know it's good..hit me up if you want to hear it, maybe you can write it, all I ask for is a free copy if you ever publish it...

[Mac Man]

Jay,

 

I'd be curious to know what sort of advice you received from your "best" list along with resources you used in the development of both your rough and polished drafts. If you'd prefer to take this to PM, that's cool too! I spend enough time studying this stuff that it'd be interesting to get some more insight into the nuts and bolts of the process.

[Sandflea]

Great advice & story; thanx for sharing. (thumbs u

 

on any future writing endeavours.

[Lebowski]

I'm going to chronicle my adventures in publishing for all to read.

 

If you have no interest, there are other threads to read so what are you waiting for?

 

For those that have an interest, I'll tell of my expeirences in do it yourself, being published by small press and hopefully if it pans out, being published by a major indepentdent publisher.

 

The Beginning (This leads up to the present)

 

First some back story. I started writing for one reason only, after seeing the remake of Day of the Dead, I knew i could do better so hence my desire to write.

 

I always wanted to write comics but I had no idea how to do it. So i took the easy way and started with novels and short stories. My first published story was a little piece of flash fiction called "Through the looking glass" that was originally published online and has been included in the annual anthology from Six Sentences.

 

Not one to plan ahead, I moved to my first book, In Life Everyone Dies. pretty successful and it paved the way for my ego to get larger. It planted the seeds to make an attempt at writing not just as a hobby but to make it a career.

 

This led to the DMC Convention Preview that without Shortstack Comics pushing would have never seen the light of day. This involved Boozad, Lebowski, Artboy99, Shortstack Comics and Me. This was quickly put together for C2E2 in Chicago in 2010. The Cost was @ $750 for 50 copies between printing and design costs. This was given out for free at C2E2.

 

This is where i found out a lot of things that opened my eyes.

1. Putting together a -script to just have one to hand out at a convention is worse that having nothing to hand out at a con. I had written a -script for a book in 17 hours to sub, NEVER DO THAT. ALWAYS have a clean -script to sub. A few publishers showed minor interest in the title but the story was a mess. Looking back, i would have passed as well. Not well thought out and the flow was not the best. This will see the light of day, it is called The Inoocents.

2. Find a creative partner. Go 50/50 on a ip, publishers like nice and tidy, including teams to work on the book. I found my creative soulmate in chicago. Now we work together on almost everything.

3. Most creaters will give advice. MOST. And the advice is not always creative. Some will just say "don't bother". Best; Jim Valentino, Bob Layton & Tim Seely. Worst: Not burning any bridges

4. Dinner tastes even better when CGC pays for it, even if pirate was there

 

Next will be putting together Tales From The Dead, These Terrible Times and RED BAND. Baltimore Comic Con and Horrorfind Weekend 12.

 

*Innocents

[User 01001010]

I'm going to chronicle my adventures in publishing for all to read.

 

If you have no interest, there are other threads to read so what are you waiting for?

 

For those that have an interest, I'll tell of my expeirences in do it yourself, being published by small press and hopefully if it pans out, being published by a major indepentdent publisher.

 

The Beginning (This leads up to the present)

 

First some back story. I started writing for one reason only, after seeing the remake of Day of the Dead, I knew i could do better so hence my desire to write.

 

I always wanted to write comics but I had no idea how to do it. So i took the easy way and started with novels and short stories. My first published story was a little piece of flash fiction called "Through the looking glass" that was originally published online and has been included in the annual anthology from Six Sentences.

 

Not one to plan ahead, I moved to my first book, In Life Everyone Dies. pretty successful and it paved the way for my ego to get larger. It planted the seeds to make an attempt at writing not just as a hobby but to make it a career.

 

This led to the DMC Convention Preview that without Shortstack Comics pushing would have never seen the light of day. This involved Boozad, Lebowski, Artboy99, Shortstack Comics and Me. This was quickly put together for C2E2 in Chicago in 2010. The Cost was @ $750 for 50 copies between printing and design costs. This was given out for free at C2E2.

 

This is where i found out a lot of things that opened my eyes.

1. Putting together a -script to just have one to hand out at a convention is worse that having nothing to hand out at a con. I had written a -script for a book in 17 hours to sub, NEVER DO THAT. ALWAYS have a clean -script to sub. A few publishers showed minor interest in the title but the story was a mess. Looking back, i would have passed as well. Not well thought out and the flow was not the best. This will see the light of day, it is called The Inoocents.

2. Find a creative partner. Go 50/50 on a ip, publishers like nice and tidy, including teams to work on the book. I found my creative soulmate in chicago. Now we work together on almost everything.

3. Most creaters will give advice. MOST. And the advice is not always creative. Some will just say "don't bother". Best; Jim Valentino, Bob Layton & Tim Seely. Worst: Not burning any bridges

4. Dinner tastes even better when CGC pays for it, even if pirate was there

 

Next will be putting together Tales From The Dead, These Terrible Times and RED BAND. Baltimore Comic Con and Horrorfind Weekend 12.

 

*Innocents

 

 

i'm sure i'll have a bill in my inbox for your editing services.

[Annihilus]

I too am a 'struggling writer', though I don't really look at myself as 'struggling' because I am not yet attempting to make a living at it, though I hope to in the next couple of years.

 

I began with short stories back in 2007 (about a dozen or so anywhere from 3000-10,000 words long) and one abortive attempt at a first novel (fizzled out at around 16,000 words). I think that my first attempt at a novel wasn't a bad one and I fully intend to go back and finish the piece eventually (it's in the horror genre, similar in style to Richard Laymon - kind of a junk-food/b-movie horror story).

 

In 2010 I began a serious second run at writing my first full novel which I finished in about 14 months from first word to last that tallied out at about 125,000 words (roughly 325 pages). It's the first of a planned trilogy of post-apocalyptic stories inspired by Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, though I don't use any of his characters directly. The first turned out to be a bit of a horror/sci-fi combo pack while the second is kind of rounding out to be more sci-fi than horror. If everything turns out as planned, the last of the three will be almost entirely in the horror arena.

 

The process is a challenge, but ultimately very gratifying. About the only advice that I might give to an aspiring writer is to make a point to write every day. You might not write quality words each time you sit down at the keyboard, but there is something to be said for being productive. Reading books on writing can be helpful too...the best one I've read so far is called 'The Courage to Write' by Ralph Keys. An absolute boon to my creative process. Even the most veteran of writers read these kinds of books from time to time, and there are some great ones out there.

 

The other piece I would recommend is to network with other writers. I've gone to the annual book fair held in Tucson the last couple of years which is a fantastic place to listen to the trials and tribulations of established authors such as Terry Brooks and others. Probably what helped to inspire me the most is attending the Lovecraft convention in Phoenix in January (MythosCon) which was full of writer panels with such authors as Ramsey Campbell, William F. Nolan, Alan Dean Foster, S.T. Joshi and up and comers like Cody Goodfellow, W.H. Pugmire and Lois Gresh. The con was small enough that I was able to talk to each author in person and bend their ears as well as hearing tons of talk on the process. I was lucky enough to sit across the table from Ramsey Campbell and his wife at the Cthulhu Prayer Breakfast, an event and conversation I'll remember for the rest of my days, to be sure.

 

I aspire to be published one day (I'm shooting to finish my trilogy before even attempting to get published - I really need to find my writing voice, which working on novels will certainly do for you). I'm on my way, but it's a long row to hoe.

 

I'll be watching how it works out for you Jay...best of luck to you in your endeavors!

[User 01001010]

Part 2: Getting in way over your head the right way.

 

After C2E2, I was approached with doing a full length anthology comic. This would become Tales From The Dead. After releasing my first book I didn't feel that this would be such a major undertaking. First rule of comics, have at least $2500 up front before you even plan to put out something. I contracted artists for artwork for 3 stories with one story being drawn by a boardie and another story drawn by an artist of the writer of his story.

 

It was all over the place, the artist in the philappines was very easy to deal with (except that he does not ink his work), mark, the artist on my story was extremely easy to deal with. Chris was of course easy to deal with on his story since he wrote and drew his, i just scripted his story. One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

 

Besides a fundraiser that was carried out on another board and me selling a lot of my high dollar books to fund, i still struggled to meet the finanacial needs to make this book happen. After scrambling to get it finished and off to lebowski to format I was at a $1200 loss.

 

That is why I decided if i do another comic myself, i'm going to take Tim Seely's advice and find an artist to split the rights with no upfront payment. It was a hard lesson to learn and i did burn a few bridges but ultimately it gave me the experience to not do that again.

 

During this time, I released my least successful book RED BAND! and a middle of the road ashcan These Terrible Times. RED BAND! was my attempt at trash writing and it turned out worse than that. These Terrible Times was an experiment in seeing if i could put something together myself design wise with the bulk of the interior being stories written by friends. Even though some see the ashcan being less than stellar appearance wise, it gave me the confidence to try more myself.

 

These Terrible Times highlights to me is DEAD DRUNK PART 1 from Boozad, this was a story he just had sitting around and he showed not only is he a good artist, he is a great writer as well and I'm glad I was allowed to put such a great story of his into the book.

 

I admit my main story was filler to round out the book. Just something to put out there and was very directionless.

 

 

next convention season.

[Norrin_Radd]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

[User 01001010]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

[Norrin_Radd]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

[Jonesin4Comics]

Jay,

 

I'd be curious to know what sort of advice you received from your "best" list along with resources you used in the development of both your rough and polished drafts. If you'd prefer to take this to PM, that's cool too! I spend enough time studying this stuff that it'd be interesting to get some more insight into the nuts and bolts of the process.

 

+1

I would love to hear the minor details of just getting started and getting your first piece of work out there.

 

I'm currently working on a -script myself (who would think that in a forum for comics there would be some that want to right them?).

 

The parts of your journey you did share were incredibly helpful, plus I didn't know that a lot of the boardies have the skills to make these things happen.

Makes me glad I'm a member!

[NewEnglandGothic]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

Of course, my writing wasn't up to par with that book.

[User 01001010]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

Of course, my writing wasn't up to par with that book.

 

 

the problem with your story is we couldn't find an artist in time for tales and if i recall...someone didn't send me anything for terrible times....

 

 

 

[User 01001010]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

 

 

well mess...didn't know all this time....

[NewEnglandGothic]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

Of course, my writing wasn't up to par with that book.

 

 

the problem with your story is we couldn't find an artist in time for tales and if i recall...someone didn't send me anything for terrible times....

 

 

Yeah, I didn't want that one in Terrible Times. It was too light hearted and In-Jokish. I wanted to do something originally horrific, that no one has seen before. Nothing came about at that time, so I passed.

[NewEnglandGothic]

I'm going to chronicle my adventures in publishing for all to read.

 

If you have no interest, there are other threads to read so what are you waiting for?

 

For those that have an interest, I'll tell of my expeirences in do it yourself, being published by small press and hopefully if it pans out, being published by a major indepentdent publisher.

 

The Beginning (This leads up to the present)

 

First some back story. I started writing for one reason only, after seeing the remake of Day of the Dead, I knew i could do better so hence my desire to write.

 

I always wanted to write comics but I had no idea how to do it. So i took the easy way and started with novels and short stories. My first published story was a little piece of flash fiction called "Through the looking glass" that was originally published online and has been included in the annual anthology from Six Sentences.

 

Not one to plan ahead, I moved to my first book, In Life Everyone Dies. pretty successful and it paved the way for my ego to get larger. It planted the seeds to make an attempt at writing not just as a hobby but to make it a career.

 

This led to the DMC Convention Preview that without Shortstack Comics pushing would have never seen the light of day. This involved Boozad, Lebowski, Artboy99, Shortstack Comics and Me. This was quickly put together for C2E2 in Chicago in 2010. The Cost was @ $750 for 50 copies between printing and design costs. This was given out for free at C2E2.

 

This is where i found out a lot of things that opened my eyes.

1. Putting together a -script to just have one to hand out at a convention is worse that having nothing to hand out at a con. I had written a -script for a book in 17 hours to sub, NEVER DO THAT. ALWAYS have a clean -script to sub. A few publishers showed minor interest in the title but the story was a mess. Looking back, i would have passed as well. Not well thought out and the flow was not the best. This will see the light of day, it is called The Inoocents.

2. Find a creative partner. Go 50/50 on a ip, publishers like nice and tidy, including teams to work on the book. I found my creative soulmate in chicago. Now we work together on almost everything.

3. Most creaters will give advice. MOST. And the advice is not always creative. Some will just say "don't bother". Best; Jim Valentino, Bob Layton & Tim Seely. Worst: Not burning any bridges

4. Dinner tastes even better when CGC pays for it, even if pirate was there

 

Next will be putting together Tales From The Dead, These Terrible Times and RED BAND. Baltimore Comic Con and Horrorfind Weekend 12.

 

*Innocents

 

 

i'm sure i'll have a bill in my inbox for your editing services.

I told the old man about that one. Being a collector of 50's horror comics he was curious himself.

[User 01001010]

I wish I could have finished it and put it out before he passed. It's tough making a friend the main character in a story and making sure it is done right. I have started rewriting the entire story to make it more of a 50's feel to it.

[Artboy99]

One story that did not end up in the book was The End is Nigh, because the artist did not follow guidelines, he didn't send print quality artwork and disappeared with the money he was paid. I was left with a story that was unusable not because of the story itself, but the artwork.

Yeah, that was a bummer.

 

 

dave?

That's me.

Of course, my writing wasn't up to par with that book.

 

 

the problem with your story is we couldn't find an artist in time for tales and if i recall...someone didn't send me anything for terrible times....

 

 

 

I was happy with the piece i submitted for use in the convention publishing. Thanks for the opportunity to get to draw something fun! Is a shame my "Bite" pencils couldnt be used. Due to a hard drive failure I lost the PDF you sent me unfortunately along with a ton of digitally scanned artwork..

 

Some info for you guys in this thread from an artist perspective( Hoping the thread originator doesn't mind )

1. I have worked for hire requesting 50% up front for my services. I have been burned for the remaining 50% after delivering quality work on time, but it is still my preferred method of working. Most people deliver the final payment, I however hold the finished piece until i receive it.

2. Contracts for percentages of revenues. These deals promise great potential, but are subject to how much of the final product sells. And the biggest concern for an artist is alot of time is spent creating the artwork for the project especially if you are working as the only artist you are pencilling + inking + lettering + coloring, and there really is no guarantee you will get any income from it. Think of things like: assembling the work into a printable form, the costs of printing, binding. Distribution where is the book being sold and how? If working a deal like this, hiring a lawyer is a must to draw up a contract. Ensure the split is fair. If you are spending 10-20 hours per page ( or more )for the illustrations and are doing 20 pages, how much time is spent on the writing?

3. Lastly no matter how good your art piece is, there are always going to be those clients who are not happy as art is and always will be a subjective thing. I am not talking about an art piece like "Patience is a Virue" but rather a good / solid piece that others acknowledge as being a decent piece yet is not satisfactory to your client. Be prepared to refund the money of a disgruntled client despite the hours upon hours you have put into it and walk away.

4. Have a job that pays the bills

[User 01001010]

i do have a few copies left Karl if you want a print copy of the convention preview.