Help Resolving Forum Transaction

[Foolkiller]

Folks,

 

I thought I'd get some advice from the boards about the best way to resolve a transaction.

 

Here is the situation:

 

1) Buyer is a long term boardie, Seller is a long term boardie.

 

2) Seller sells through the boards, a relatively expensive book for $800. Buyer pays by check and gives the shipping address (US based) to send it to. The book is shipped.

 

3) Delivery confirmation and insurance is sent on the package.

 

4) Buyer does not receive the package after about a week, and after seller investigates, learns that the package was delivered to the address 5 days earlier.

 

5) Buyer then consults with his building's concierge who receives all packages, and he says that no package was ever received.

 

6) Buyer speaks with the postal carrier who says he delivered the package to the building's concierge -- but states the regular concierge's name who was off that entire week. Postal carrier then back tracks and says he can't remember who it was because of the volume of packages, but knows he delivered it as delivery confirmation supports.

 

7) The building log and the concierge deny receiving it still.

 

8) The USPS says that as far as they are concerned, there is nothing to support the package being mis-delivered, as both the postal carrier and delivery confirmation show actual delivery.

 

9) Buyer is upset, he has no book, and no money. Buyer asks that seller split the loss because he did not use signature confirmation for a high dollar book, even though that was not requested prior to the transaction occurring. In addition, buyer states that if the transaction had been done through paypal, he could have done a charge back because the amount was over $250 and no signature confirmation was used.

 

10) Seller is upset as well. He does not believe he should have to refund any portion because he did everything he could to ensure the book's arrival. The book, per the USPS, did arrive. However, we know factually that the buyer (and there's no reason to believe he's lying whatsoever) does not have the book. Seller does not believe, nor has he seen, signature confirmation on any packages he's received (and paid by paypal) for over $250, nor is it his custom and practice to do so, except to send very high value books via registered mail or express, both of which require independently, signature confirmation.

 

 

As you can see above, this is a quandary. The buyer has a right to be upset, but is he entitled to compensation from the seller? Is the seller right that he did everything he could, and so no further action need to be taken on his end?

 

I am very interested because the transaction stands at an impasse and I believe both parties want to resolve the matter.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

What about the insurance factor?

Sounds like it was lost.

 

[Foolkiller]

What about the insurance factor?

Sounds like it was lost.

 

Insurance is out of the mix. The USPS shows it as delivered and says it was. So does the actual postal carrier (but delivery confirmation requires them to scan it in, so the PO is adamant the package was delivered).

 

Lost is easy to figure out.

[cheetah]

File a police report for theft and then file an insurance claim on the building since they took responsibility for packages being delivered. It will at least get some attention.

[Speedy-D]

I'd give two answers, both uninformed:

 

1. A seller agrees to ship a comic to a buyer....he can't guarantee that the USPS will come through correctly. That's a third party and completely out of his control. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most any online business, in a similar circumstance, would not offer any sort of refund.

 

2. On a personal level, if you (I mean the seller!) trust the buyer, and believe all parts of the story, then I'd say the ball is in your court. You've got your $800, the buyer has no comic. You could split the difference because a) you don't think things have worked out fairly, or b) you want to keep this person as a customer.

[BEAUMONTS]

File a police report for theft and then file an insurance claim on the building since they took responsibility for packages being delivered. It will at least get some attention.

(thumbs u

[1koko]

Question basically is when does the seller's responsibilty to deliver the book end?

 

If:

1.) buyer and seller agreed the method of shipping and the book was sent - USPS with delivery confirmation and insurance; and

 

2.) USPS confirms delivery

 

then the risk after confirmed delivery belongs to the buyer.

 

 

The buyer can't retrospectively demand compensation due to signature on delivery not being included.

 

The buyer must be aware of the risks of delivery to his building and consider all risks of any purchase and protection he requires before entering into the transaction.

 

The real question that is unanswered is where did the package end up. If delivered to the building who had access to the post from time delivered to it's disappearance.

 

[comicwiz]

Sorry to hear.

 

These are stories you hate to hear, but need retelling because it seems there is always some way for things to go wrong.

 

Was shipping thrown in as part of the deal? If so, then the seller should have taken the necessary precaution (signature confirmation).

 

If the shipping was extra, and the buyer did not request any special service to protect his interests, than unfortunately this is an expensive buyer beware lesson.

 

Regardless of where you sit on the situation, I think the building staff needs to be questioned with a little more fire to their feet and perhaps filing a theft report with the police and asking for compensation for the gap in the postal services account of what went down is the way to recompense the situation in an agreeable manner for both parties.

 

Unfortunately, the onus is on the buyer to ignite the flame and start getting some answers. I don't like to throw around generalizations, but I've heard too many stories within the hospitality industry, both hotel and building residences, to not dig a little deeper on the matter of the parcel going missing during the time a temp or fill-in staffer was on duty.

 

For the buyer, it's the difference of not only closing out the doubts of this transaction, but any others that may arise in the future.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Question basically is when does the seller's responsibilty to deliver the book end?

 

If:

1.) buyer and seller agreed the method of shipping and the book was sent - USPS with delivery confirmation and insurance; and

 

2.) USPS confirms delivery

 

then the risk after confirmed delivery belongs to the buyer.

 

 

The buyer can't retrospectively demand compensation due to signature on delivery not being included.

 

The buyer must be aware of the risks of delivery to his building and consider all risks of any purchase and protection he requires before entering into the transaction.

 

The real question that is unanswered is where did the package end up. If delivered to the building who had access to the post from time delivered to it's disappearance.

A real tough one. So what if buyer and seller both wanted signature?Would this have turned out still different if no book was found?

[Foolkiller]

Question basically is when does the seller's responsibilty to deliver the book end?

 

If:

1.) buyer and seller agreed the method of shipping and the book was sent - USPS with delivery confirmation and insurance; and

 

2.) USPS confirms delivery

 

then the risk after confirmed delivery belongs to the buyer.

 

 

The buyer can't retrospectively demand compensation due to signature on delivery not being included.

 

The buyer must be aware of the risks of delivery to his building and consider all risks of any purchase and protection he requires before entering into the transaction.

 

The real question that is unanswered is where did the package end up. If delivered to the building who had access to the post from time delivered to it's disappearance.

 

In being fair, I'm not sure either party discussed it either way. The buyer never said, this is how I'd like it shipped, but the seller never said, this is how I'll ship it to you. There have been a few previous transactions between the parties with no problems using the same method: confirmation and insurance or confirmation alone.

[sufunk]

Thats a tough one.

 

If the seller truly believes that the buyer does not have the book, personally i would then split the loss and refund $400. The situation sucks and there is no way both or even either party is going to be happy but at least splitting the loss makes them both on even ground even though they both are losing out on part of the deal.

 

I'd split the loss (thumbs u

[Foolkiller]

Question basically is when does the seller's responsibilty to deliver the book end?

 

If:

1.) buyer and seller agreed the method of shipping and the book was sent - USPS with delivery confirmation and insurance; and

 

2.) USPS confirms delivery

 

then the risk after confirmed delivery belongs to the buyer.

 

 

The buyer can't retrospectively demand compensation due to signature on delivery not being included.

 

The buyer must be aware of the risks of delivery to his building and consider all risks of any purchase and protection he requires before entering into the transaction.

 

The real question that is unanswered is where did the package end up. If delivered to the building who had access to the post from time delivered to it's disappearance.

A real tough one. So what if buyer and seller both wanted signature?Would this have turned out still different if no book was found?

 

If there was signature confirmation, someone would have had to have signed for it, meaning you'd know for sure that the building received it -- or that someone in the building actually signed for it.

[8milemax]

If INS is over 200 I just need the tracking number and I can find out more. I work for the USPS and I will look it up at work. If its over 200 it has to be signed for and I can find out who signed for it.

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

I would think Sig confirmation would have to come from the buyer with proof of identity...apparently not.

 

What good is sig confirmation (without ID verification) if ANYONE can sign for it ... ie anyone passing by at the time, walks into the building, signs for it and then walks away.

 

 

WTF

[Foolkiller]

If INS is over 200 I just need the tracking number and I can find out more. I work for the USPS and I will look it up at work. If its over 200 it has to be signed for and I can find out who signed for it.

 

 

It was insured for over $200 and that was my understanding as well. That a signature was required. However -- I didn't question this because I've had multiple packages delivered to my office, and I've never once signed for a package nor has anyone in my office, they just leave it. Same when they've come to my house.

 

I have the tracking # and can shoot you a PM.

[Foolkiller]

I would think Sig confirmation would have to come from the buyer with proof of identity...apparently not.

 

What good is sig confirmation (without ID verification) if ANYONE can sign for it ... ie anyone passing by at the time, walks into the building, signs for it and then walks away.

 

 

WTF

 

To be clear, there was NO sign confirmation. Only insurance/delivery confirmation.

[comicdonna]

A very sad situation. This should teach all of us that it's worth the extra time and money to get a delivery confirmation with a return receipt requested on larger books.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If INS is over 200 I just need the tracking number and I can find out more. I work for the USPS and I will look it up at work. If its over 200 it has to be signed for and I can find out who signed for it.

 

 

It was insured for over $200 and that was my understanding as well. That a signature was required. However -- I didn't question this because I've had multiple packages delivered to my office, and I've never once signed for a package nor has anyone in my office, they just leave it. Same when they've come to my house.

 

I have the tracking # and can shoot you a PM.

That`s what I thought. If this was insured for $800 than someone should have signed for it.

[Gotham Kid]

"A very sad situation. This should teach all of us that it's worth the extra time and money to get a delivery confirmation with a return receipt requested on larger books. "

 

+1

[Foolkiller]

If INS is over 200 I just need the tracking number and I can find out more. I work for the USPS and I will look it up at work. If its over 200 it has to be signed for and I can find out who signed for it.

 

 

It was insured for over $200 and that was my understanding as well. That a signature was required. However -- I didn't question this because I've had multiple packages delivered to my office, and I've never once signed for a package nor has anyone in my office, they just leave it. Same when they've come to my house.

 

I have the tracking # and can shoot you a PM.

That`s what I thought. If this was insured for $800 than someone should have signed for it.

 

What I know is that there is no signature as far as the buyer knew. Nor does the PO show a signature, only delivery confirmation.