Redeeming the Practice of Restoration

[Ogami]

I don't want to clog up COI's thread on Ewert/Schmell, but did want to have a conversation about restoration. I see it coming up tangentially in that thread a few times, but was wondering if anyone wants to have a discussion specifically about restoration.

 

Specifically, I too remember a time when restored books had some panache. I still remember seeing a major key Batman book in Ciorac's MORE FUN COMICS shop in downtown, New Orleans in the early nineties and being very impressed that someone took the time to bring that beauty back to life. For the life of me, I don't remember the issue.

 

I understand about when the shift occurred, and I understand a bit of the dynamics, but here is my point-

 

Isn't this simply about increased profit as well? Think about it for a minute- when the market of buyers shrank, (1993-2002ish) the pool of GA and SA books stayed relatively the same. So for the boys with the toys, selling the good stuff became more difficult. What better way to artificially keep the prices high on the goods than to disregard restored copies, removing a portion of goods from the pipeline.

 

Less people collecting SA and GA ----> decrease the supply of desirable SA and GA to keep values high.

 

 

 

Now I'm not saying this was intentional, or that it even happened. I'm asking if it is possible that this was a motivation for devaluing restored comics. I'm also not taking potshots at dealers who were active during this time- let me repeat myself- I am accusing no one of collusion, underhandedness or immoral business practices. I am simply asking (and offering a theory on) why restored books became anathema.

[Ogami]

Also, what would it take to redeem the practice of restoration?

 

I have a dishrag of a book that is a major Marvel SA key.

 

Journey Into Mystery 83, presents as a 4.0, actual grade is 0.5-1.5 depending on who you ask.

 

I would love to redeem this book, but it seems that in the current climate, doing nothing is the best thing I can do for this book.

[bill977]

Also, what would it take to redeem the practice of restoration?

 

I have a dishrag of a book that is a major Marvel SA key.

 

Journey Into Mystery 83, presents as a 4.0, actual grade is 0.5-1.5 depending on who you ask.

 

I would love to redeem this book, but it seems that in the current climate, doing nothing is the best thing I can do for this book.

i tend to feel that restoration is all about profit. but if that floats one's boat,okay by me. but like in the case of your jim 83,if you are happy with it,great. to me that's what it's all about. owning a copy that you can afford and enjoy,well thats what collecting is all about to me

[bababooey]

I think collectors are harsh on restored books because most of us have unknowingly bought them in the past.

 

One of the better points made in the other thread was that our opinions have evolved from CGC stances on specific industry practices, past & current. Books aren't restored anymore, they are either blue or purple.

 

 

[ciorac]

I don't want to clog up COI's thread on Ewert/Schmell, but did want to have a conversation about restoration. I see it coming up tangentially in that thread a few times, but was wondering if anyone wants to have a discussion specifically about restoration.

Specifically, I too remember a time when restored books had some panache. I still remember seeing a major key Batman book in Ciorac's MORE FUN COMICS shop in downtown, New Orleans in the early nineties and being very impressed that someone took the time to bring that beauty back to life. For the life of me, I don't remember the issue.

 

I understand about when the shift occurred, and I understand a bit of the dynamics, but here is my point-

 

Isn't this simply about increased profit as well? Think about it for a minute- when the market of buyers shrank, (1993-2002ish) the pool of GA and SA books stayed relatively the same. So for the boys with the toys, selling the good stuff became more difficult. What better way to artificially keep the prices high on the goods than to disregard restored copies, removing a portion of goods from the pipeline.

 

Less people collecting SA and GA ----> decrease the supply of desirable SA and GA to keep values high.

 

 

 

Now I'm not saying this was intentional, or that it even happened. I'm asking if it is possible that this was a motivation for devaluing restored comics. I'm also not taking potshots at dealers who were active during this time- let me repeat myself- I am accusing no one of collusion, underhandedness or immoral business practices. I am simply asking (and offering a theory on) why restored books became anathema.

 

Was it Batman #1 or Detective #27?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I like restoration myself. I just wish it were more affordable! To save a book from destruction and have future generations enjoy it is very special to me. There are alot of books that will be lost every day due to age and wear. Stigma be damned, I would rather save some books.

[Ogami]

I want to say the 27, but my memory is terrible.

 

I can ask Jay tonight when we talk on the phone and tell you what he said.

[ciorac]

I want to say the 27, but my memory is terrible.

 

I can ask Jay tonight when we talk on the phone and tell you what he said.

 

(thumbs u

 

Might have a picture of it in the display case, if it is the 27. It''ll give you that memory lane experience

[Ogami]

While your doing that, give us your opinion on resto, Bill. Why did it change and what can be done to change it back?

[DailySuperpower]

Also, what would it take to redeem the practice of restoration?

 

I have a dishrag of a book that is a major Marvel SA key.

 

Journey Into Mystery 83, presents as a 4.0, actual grade is 0.5-1.5 depending on who you ask.

 

I would love to redeem this book, but it seems that in the current climate, doing nothing is the best thing I can do for this book.

i tend to feel that restoration is all about profit. but if that floats one's boat,okay by me. but like in the case of your jim 83,if you are happy with it,great. to me that's what it's all about. owning a copy that you can afford and enjoy,well thats what collecting is all about to me

 

I disagree with this. If a book on my want list is prohibitively expensive except in very low grades I will consider purchasing a very low grade copy and having it restored for structural integrity and preservation. It's about making the books last as long as possible so they can be enjoyed over time.

 

Obviously I'm speaking from a personal collector point of view and not a dealer point of view. I just think that well done restoration can do a lot more than increase the monetary value of a book, but in the age of slabs a lot of those benefits are lost on people.

[TupennyConan]

I want to say the 27, but my memory is terrible.

 

I can ask Jay tonight when we talk on the phone and tell you what he said.

 

(thumbs u

 

Might have a picture of it in the display case, if it is the 27. It''ll give you that memory lane experience

 

[Ogami]

Just got off the phone with Jay and he thought it was Bats 1.

[MisterX]

I think that, fairly or not, restoration is viewed as something done to deceive.

 

[ciorac]

Just got off the phone with Jay and he thought it was Bats 1.

 

Ok, there were many of those that came through, so it would be tough to pinpoint the one you saw

[ciorac]

I want to say the 27, but my memory is terrible.

 

I can ask Jay tonight when we talk on the phone and tell you what he said.

 

(thumbs u

 

Might have a picture of it in the display case, if it is the 27. It''ll give you that memory lane experience

 

 

[ciorac]

Just got off the phone with Jay and he thought it was Bats 1.

 

Was it this one?

 

[Ogami]

Bill, I finally traded away the Spidey 33 I got from you back in 1992 at Coast Con.

 

You will be happy to know it partially funded a TTA 27.

 

 

[Ogami]

Just got off the phone with Jay and he thought it was Bats 1.

 

Was it this one?

 

 

I'm sorry to say I don't remember. I DO remember it being in or on a glass case to the immediate left as you walked in the front door.

 

 

LOVE the CAP. (who is the guy in the red and blue wrestling tights?)

[adamstrange]

I don't want to clog up COI's thread on Ewert/Schmell, but did want to have a conversation about restoration. I see it coming up tangentially in that thread a few times, but was wondering if anyone wants to have a discussion specifically about restoration.

 

Specifically, I too remember a time when restored books had some panache. I still remember seeing a major key Batman book in Ciorac's MORE FUN COMICS shop in downtown, New Orleans in the early nineties and being very impressed that someone took the time to bring that beauty back to life. For the life of me, I don't remember the issue.

 

I understand about when the shift occurred, and I understand a bit of the dynamics, but here is my point-

 

Isn't this simply about increased profit as well? Think about it for a minute- when the market of buyers shrank, (1993-2002ish) the pool of GA and SA books stayed relatively the same. So for the boys with the toys, selling the good stuff became more difficult. What better way to artificially keep the prices high on the goods than to disregard restored copies, removing a portion of goods from the pipeline.

 

Less people collecting SA and GA ----> decrease the supply of desirable SA and GA to keep values high.

 

 

 

Now I'm not saying this was intentional, or that it even happened. I'm asking if it is possible that this was a motivation for devaluing restored comics. I'm also not taking potshots at dealers who were active during this time- let me repeat myself- I am accusing no one of collusion, underhandedness or immoral business practices. I am simply asking (and offering a theory on) why restored books became anathema.

 

There were a lot of buyers of GA comics in the late 80s and early 90s and not enough nice copies to go around. In response, a lot of books were restored and sold undisclosed to folks. Some restored books were sold to newbies with disclosure but priced similar to unrestored book of the same grade as the apparent grade of the restored comic.

 

This did not work for very long as people who bought with undisclosed restoration were unhappy and people with disclosed restoration attempting to sell found that market demand was not there at anywhere near their purchase price.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I think with golden age books people are more lenient and can see why, but when they start restoring bronze age comics and up I guess people had enough. The average CGC graded book from 1970 is 9.0, so why restore 1970 and up comics?

Golden age I can see, but really Marvel Comics from the 1970s?