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Lost respect for Stanley Lieber

Started by Calidream'n,

99 posts in this topic

Calidream'n

Calidream'n

Posted
Posted

So, I just finished reading an awesome book titled Kirby King of Comics by Mark Evanier. Anyone read it? I thought it was an awesome bio of the man, but I can't help but feel quite a bit of anger towards Stan Lee. I know, believe nothing of what you hear/read and half of what you see. But, if even a small portion of it is true, how crappy of Lee to do the things to Kirby that he did. Low pay is one thing, but stealing credit for characters and allowing the press to say that Lee was the sole creator and writer for all the awesome 60's Marvel characters is pretty shi**y. I read in one chapter that Stan took the Silver Surfer, and without consulting Kirby, ran his own series with Buscema drawing. Lee completely changed the origin of a character that Kirby created.

I met the man many years ago and he was so genuine and down to earth. He didn't know me from Adam and took time to chat with me about comics and various characters and even let me grab a few pics with him. Kinda reminds me of the ol' saying "nice guys finish last".

Sorry, just venting.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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From what I understand the Surfer was the last straw that broke the camel's back for Kirby.

 

Kirby threw him a bone by letting Kirby draw the last issue...and then the series was cancelled.

 

Kirby wanted an angry, vengeful, space travelling Surfer and Lee wanted the one we got.

 

To be entirely fair, Stan was a genius at choosing direction and captivating the audience with that direction. Nearly everything he touched after 1960 turned to gold. The same can't be said for Kirby. Although his DC/Fourth World stuff does have a loyal following it's not as mainstream as the Kirby/Lee stuff.

 

Unfortunately, some people make better leaders than others and that is why Stan gets the majority of the praise.

 

Even though he could not have done it without Kirby (Stan was the front man. Kirby was the entire rest of the band) Stan was the one in the limelight.

 

Such is life.

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Fedoraman

Fedoraman

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Mitra...

 

They ALL contributed, Stan can't draw, Ditko can't tell a story with pictures alone and Kirby had difficulty keeping his characters appealing to general audiences.

 

It was a great TEAM effort, with creative genious all around.

 

But as will all things, creative people have difficulty working with other creative people.

 

Just be happy with the work they gave us and stop playing the blame game...

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Calidream'n

Calidream'n

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I think the chapter that really got to me the most is when in 1970, Kirby's contract was up. He was trying to renegotiate and tried to tell Marvel that he was, in fact, as much a part of the creation of these characters as Lee. (In fact more so, because he brought them to life) They told Kirby he was crazy; that Stan was the creating and writing force of it all and they didn't need him. ALL Stan had to do was say, "yeah, Jack is essential to me and the creative process. He did a lot of creating and it's not just me." But he never did.

Being a frontman, a good leader, a visonary is one thing, but to exclude someone due credit to the point where they are let go is just plain shi**y.

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Ogami

Ogami

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Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

 

I came here to post this.

 

Evader is hardly impartial.

 

 

Long live the King.

 

And

 

Stan is still the Man.

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seanfingh

seanfingh

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Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

 

I came here to post this.

 

Evader is hardly impartial.

 

 

Long live the King.

 

And

 

Stan is still the Man.

 

I concur with this.

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Calidream'n

Calidream'n

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Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

See, I didn't know that. That's why I post here. A learning experience.

Still, there must be some truth to all this, no?

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Ogami

Ogami

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Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

See, I didn't know that. That's why I post here. A learning experience.

Still, there must be some truth to all this, no?

 

Yes, I'm afraid there is some truth to it.

 

 

 

 

Ad I hate my iPad correcting evainer.

 

But it doesn't correct "and". Nice.

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seanfingh

seanfingh

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Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

See, I didn't know that. That's why I post here. A learning experience.

Still, there must be some truth to all this, no?

 

Yes, I'm afraid there is some truth to it.

 

 

 

 

Ad I hate my iPad correcting evainer.

 

But it doesn't correct "and". Nice.

 

Your spelling is atrocious. Fortunately, the ideas your words convey are moderately cogent despite the poor spelling. So you have that going for you, which is nice.

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Whizzer

Whizzer

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I've read the book and enjoyed it, but as has been said Evanier and Jack were very close, I always got the impression that it was almost a Father/Son relationship.

 

I love Kirby and Ditko, and the arguments as to who did what will no doubt rage on for ever.

 

I personally believe that for his salesmanship and never ending drive alone Stan deserves enormous credit for creating the feel and fan interaction that made the Marvel age of comics such a success. The fact that he also had at least a fair bit of creative input is a bonus.

 

Just sayin.

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Ogami

Ogami

Posted
Posted
Don't forget that Evanier was an assistant for Kirby in the early 70s and is quite partial in the Kirby/Lee/Marvel debate.

 

See, I didn't know that. That's why I post here. A learning experience.

Still, there must be some truth to all this, no?

 

Yes, I'm afraid there is some truth to it.

 

 

 

 

Ad I hate my iPad correcting evainer.

 

But it doesn't correct "and". Nice.

 

Your spelling is atrocious. Fortunately, the ideas your words convey are moderately cogent despite the poor spelling. So you have that going for you, which is nice.

 

It has ever been thus.

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Ogami

Ogami

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Since I don't feel like starting a new thread, I'm gonna partially hijack this one. I'm reading through my FF omni volume 1 and seeing the Marvel universe unfold before my very eyes and the letters pages are a virtual history course.

 

Trivia question- does anyone know who came up with the name, "Marvel Comics Group"?

 

And it was issue 14 where it first occurred. Issue 16 where it was explained if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, "moderately". lol

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shadroch

shadroch

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So, I just finished reading an awesome book titled Kirby King of Comics by Mark Evanier. Anyone read it? I thought it was an awesome bio of the man, but I can't help but feel quite a bit of anger towards Stan Lee. I know, believe nothing of what you hear/read and half of what you see. But, if even a small portion of it is true, how crappy of Lee to do the things to Kirby that he did. Low pay is one thing, but stealing credit for characters and allowing the press to say that Lee was the sole creator and writer for all the awesome 60's Marvel characters is pretty shi**y. I read in one chapter that Stan took the Silver Surfer, and without consulting Kirby, ran his own series with Buscema drawing. Lee completely changed the origin of a character that Kirby created.

I met the man many years ago and he was so genuine and down to earth. He didn't know me from Adam and took time to chat with me about comics and various characters and even let me grab a few pics with him. Kinda reminds me of the ol' saying "nice guys finish last".

Sorry, just venting.

 

 

Everyone knows Johnny Carson was King of Comics :sumo:

 

Is this touched upon in the book?

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