Key issues from the 90's?

[Schmakt]

Weren't the print run numbers on early Valiant vastly different than early Image? Image was so hyped; everyone knew it was coming, and everyone expected it to be amazing.

 

Valiant kind of snuck in the back door with much less fanfare...

[rjrjr]

You'd think after 20 years Image would have made something worthy. It's kind of sad really.

 

You mean something like The Walking Dead?

[whetteon]

Thor 411 and 412...first New Warriors!!

 

(thumbs u

[valiantman]

You'd think after 20 years Image would have made something worthy. It's kind of sad really.

 

You mean something like The Walking Dead?

There's "nostalgia" for The Walking Dead?

If that's possible then I have "nostalgia" for some cannelloni I had last week.

[valiantman]

The dirty little secret that Valiant fans don't wish to acknowledge is that the line likely would have failed even had Shooter stayed, as too many comic shops had been burned by speculators ordering hundreds of thousands of books random books like Harbinger 17-20 or Secret Weapons 1 that should have sold in the 50-70K range. Proof? Two of the failed Valiant reboots were spearheaded by Shooter--Unity2000 and the recent Dark Horse line.

 

It's not a "dirty little secret", it's an often discussed topic.

 

Comic shops might have been burned by speculators on Valiant, but Valiant's top-selling book of all time, Turok #1, only ranked #5 for comic sales the month it came out.

Valiant wouldn't have HAD to die due to speculation and unsold stock.

Image, DC, and Marvel survived, despite printing more copies than anyone could ever deplete lining bird cages.

 

As for "Valiant reboots"...

Shooter's "attempt" during Unity 2000 was Acclaim telling Shooter to kill his own Valiant universe to make way for a new 21st century Acclaim.

Shooter's "attempt" during Dark Horse 2010 was Dark Horse not legally allowed to produce anything similar to Valiant.

 

Neither was a Valiant reboot. In fact, both took Valiant concepts and went the opposite direction.

[valiantman]

Weren't the print run numbers on early Valiant vastly different than early Image? Image was so hyped; everyone knew it was coming, and everyone expected it to be amazing.

 

Valiant kind of snuck in the back door with much less fanfare...

Yes, all pre-Unity Valiant issues combined total 2.75million books (about 50,000 copies each).

That's LESS than the combined total of Spawn #1 and #2.

[Schmakt]

Weren't the print run numbers on early Valiant vastly different than early Image? Image was so hyped; everyone knew it was coming, and everyone expected it to be amazing.

 

Valiant kind of snuck in the back door with much less fanfare...

Yes, all pre-Unity Valiant issues combined total 2.75million books (about 50,000 copies each).

That's LESS than the combined total of Spawn #1 and #2.

 

Knew I could count on you!

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm as big a Valiant fan as anyone this side of Greg, but Image and Valiant can absolutely be compared:.

 

No, they can't.

 

One was a loose conglomeration of artists, whose publishing arm served only to handle the business end of publication, and which held no rights or control over any creative output.

 

The other was a traditional comic book publisher, which maintained complete ownership and control of all properties (that weren't already licensed characters) from the top down.

 

Totally different types of companies.

[Lazyboy]

You'd think after 20 years Image would have made something worthy. It's kind of sad really.

 

You mean something like The Walking Dead?

There's "nostalgia" for The Walking Dead?

If that's possible then I have "nostalgia" for some cannelloni I had last week.

 

If you were talking about nostalgia, why the hell did you mention Image's entire publishing life of 20 years?

[Shaven Kev-migration]

If they were to restart Valiant with some of the original artist or even competent artist and went back to decent coloring (I'm sure you could get that watercolor look with photoshop now) I would be on board especially with Shooter in charge. I looked at the Dark Horse books and from the horrible cgi looking covers to the amateur art and horrible coloring they turned me completely off. The characters were only a small part of the formula.

 

I read and enjoyed the originals from the start and switched my pull list from mostly marvel x-titles to every valiant title and a few image and dark horse books. When I quit was when they went to computer coloring, new artists etc. It seemed only Image could pull off the computer coloring with any finesse at the time. Marvel and other books were just ugly.

 

I then got into Defiant..Plasm was freaking awesome. So, this is where those production values went! Sadly it did not last long...and soon I was done with comics for a long time. Not because I got burned on speculation, I never bought more than one of anything to read, but because there was not anything left on the shelves for me to enjoy.

[valiantman]

You'd think after 20 years Image would have made something worthy. It's kind of sad really.

 

You mean something like The Walking Dead?

There's "nostalgia" for The Walking Dead?

If that's possible then I have "nostalgia" for some cannelloni I had last week.

 

If you were talking about nostalgia, why the hell did you mention Image's entire publishing life of 20 years?

Re-read the original discussion where rjrjr just cut my (last) statement.

The word "nostalgia" is in there a half-dozen times.

 

Let me re-phrase, "Having never stopped printing comics, you'd think Image would have made something worthy of nostalgia from the Copper Age."

 

[Rodey]

Darkhawk #1....Throwing it out there to get away from all the Valiant talk. Psh-shaw!

[dupont2005]

You'd think after 20 years Image would have made something worthy. It's kind of sad really.

 

You mean something like The Walking Dead?

There's "nostalgia" for The Walking Dead?

If that's possible then I have "nostalgia" for some cannelloni I had last week.

 

If you were talking about nostalgia, why the hell did you mention Image's entire publishing life of 20 years?

Re-read the original discussion where rjrjr just cut my (last) statement.

The word "nostalgia" is in there a half-dozen times.

 

Let me re-phrase, "Having never stopped printing comics, you'd think Image would have made something worthy of nostalgia from the Copper Age."

They did. Plenty of people are nostalgic for early Image drek. It just has a higher print run that early Valiant drek and can be had cheaper so people who worry about how much their comics are worth could never admit they absolutely loved the first issues of Spawn and Wildcats. Whenever I sell cheap comics on CL that's exactly what I hear though. People who haven't read a comic in a few decades will light up with joy buying an 80 issue run of their favorite teenage years comic for a dollar each. So they aren't key issues. They still have plenty of nostalgia.

[Shaven Kev-migration]

I love Darkhawk...bought it off the rack in walmart.

[Green]

I'm as big a Valiant fan as anyone this side of Greg, but Image and Valiant can absolutely be compared:.

 

No, they can't.

 

One was a loose conglomeration of artists, whose publishing arm served only to handle the business end of publication, and which held no rights or control over any creative output.

 

The other was a traditional comic book publisher, which maintained complete ownership and control of all properties (that weren't already licensed characters) from the top down.

 

Totally different types of companies.

Comparing differences is still a comparison.

[MK Ultra]

I'm as big a Valiant fan as anyone this side of Greg, but Image and Valiant can absolutely be compared:.

 

No, they can't.

 

One was a loose conglomeration of artists, whose publishing arm served only to handle the business end of publication, and which held no rights or control over any creative output.

 

The other was a traditional comic book publisher, which maintained complete ownership and control of all properties (that weren't already licensed characters) from the top down.

 

Totally different types of companies.

Comparing differences is still a comparison.

 

I thought it was contrasting?

[Gatsby77]

Exactly, you can't discuss comic books in 1992 without discussing both Image and Valiant, just like you can't discuss comics in 1991 without touching on Marvel's X-books, which dominated.

 

Plenty of the "contemporary literature" such as Wizard and the Overstreet Updates/Fan directly compared the two companies, so it's specious to--decades later--state that because the companies had different editorial and management structures that they weren't comparable.

 

Likewise, the fact that they later crossed over in Deathmate invites direct comparison--particularly with regard to how the "Valiant" issues were (mostly) on time, while the "Image" books were late.

[Gatsby77]

I'm nostalgic for the early Image books, as it brings me back to the excitement I felt with almost each new release. The art in Spawn, Wildcats and Cyberforce still holds up for me, and the stories in Pitt and Maxx were solid.

 

Popular and/or key =/= expensive.

[Bosco685]

Likewise, the fact that they later crossed over in Deathmate invites direct comparison--particularly with regard to how the "Valiant" issues were (mostly) on time, while the "Image" books were late.

 

That's a really good point, as Deathmate showed the flaws in the two companies. Valiant stories started going downhill and focused more on its "house art" style, and Image was consistently late.

 

But the material from Unity and earlier coming out of Valiant was just incredible to read, and a favorite period of time to collect for me.

[dupont2005]

I'm nostalgic for the early Image books, as it brings me back to the excitement I felt with almost each new release. The art in Spawn, Wildcats and Cyberforce still holds up for me, and the stories in Pitt and Maxx were solid.

 

Popular and/or key =/= expensive.

The Maxx is my all time favorite super hero comic