Does it make any difference... if someone is trying to 'assemble a book?'

[thethedew]

Hello all -

 

Stirring the pot again.

 

While recently contemplating whether or not it was wise or feasible to embark on another quixotic collecting quest, I thought it interesting to throw out another hypothetical to the group.

 

When contacted by a fellow collector in regards to art in your own collection, does it make any difference if that collector is attempting to complete a book?

 

I'll start:

 

First off, I would certainly feel that the same general guidelines regarding unsolicited contact would still apply, i.e. courtesy is required, I didn't contact you about my collection, you contacted me, etc.

 

(I could envision scenarios where a certain... expectation might creep into the conversation. Just because some collectors might be theoretically sympathetic to someone trying to assemble a book, doesn't mean it's an automatic slam-dunk. Courtesy and tact.)

 

That aside, while there are some outright 'untouchables' in my collection... if another collector would be able to satisfy me that they were truly trying to assemble a book for which I owned pages, I would probably be loathe to stand in their way.

 

(Actually, book assembly might be about the only instance I would be inclined to consider parting with parts of my collection - it's the trading-card-set-assembler in me. That's how I feel... today.)

 

BUT.

 

That doesn't mean I would feel inclined to proceed on anything other than my own timetable. Perhaps I'd require other pages from the book to be found first before I'd seriously consider parting with my pages. Maybe years to wait.

 

And should I sell or trade, I would certainly expect a certain... generosity for my sacrifice.

 

All the above satisfied, I'd consider dealing.

 

Are there collectors out there that feel similarly? And are there others out there where it matters not one jot if someone is trying to complete a book?

 

Finally, I do try to keep an eye out for pages for other collectors who are trying to assemble books - when it's within my purview.

 

Andrew

 

[Claudio]

I wouldn't make the sale contingent on the buyer jumping through hoops. I can understand why you might want to make sure they just aren't trying to pull one over on you but I would let them take it at a price I was comfortable with. I have only 3 or 4 pieces that would require stupid money (x2) to part with.

[SC in SC]

If another collector were trying to assemble a book, and I had one of the pages, I would most likely sell it to them for a fair price unless that page were one of the few pieces that simply are not for sale.

 

Should one of the pages that a collector needs for their book assembly be one of the few in my collection that's not for sale, then the collector would simply have an incomplete book. I might be likely to leave it to them in my will though, if the collector would wish me to do that, and should I ever decide to sell it they would be the first person I would contact.

 

There are only one or two published pieces in my collection that are simply not for sale for any reason. The monetary value of the pieces is not that high, and the sentimental value that I have for them is much higher than any amount that I might ever be offered.

[comix4fun]

If another collector were trying to assemble a book, and I had one of the pages, I would most likely sell it to them for a fair price unless that page were one of the few pieces that simply are not for sale.

 

 

 

 

 

I've done that before. I have given into the plea of "trying to complete the book" and sold pages that I would have otherwise kept and wanted to keep.

 

Sometimes the person reassembling the book may just resell all the pages in a short period of time after you sold your page to him/her.

 

Nothing makes you feel like a chump more than selling a page to someone for their sentimental reasons only to see the page resold in short order.

 

So I don't just sell pages to people reassembling books anymore if it's a page I prefer to keep. I will, however, make special notation on the page in my records about who is reassembling the book and try to give them first shot at the page if I ever change my mind and decide to part with it.

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

I'm in the process of collecting pages from one of our home-grown (UK) serials from the mid-1960s. I've probably exhausted all the artwork that was held by the dealer who brought it to the market.

 

A few months ago I noticed a page from the storyline in question appear on a CAF gallery.

 

I (politely) approached the owner to register my interest and offered to either buy or trade generously (within reason).

 

After an initial 'no thanks' response, the owner then suggested to me that he would readily trade me the page I wanted for a nice Brian Bolland original.

 

I don't posess any Bolland art but duly noted that available pages to buy would be more than 10 x the value of the art I was looking to acquire from the other collector.

 

I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of being held to ransom so passed on it.

 

Highly unlikely that I'll ever assemble all 48 pages of the storyline I was attempting to collect, but I'm more than happy to possess quite a few examples.

[AKA Rick]

I'd be careful of putting compassion and emotion into the Book Assembly appeal, unless that person owns at least 1/3 of the book, anyone could have the stance and make a true statement that the're assembling a book... starting with the 1st page in their quest... your page.

 

I'd show compassion, in the spirit of the hobby and for good karma towards a collector who is near completion of a book and either sell or trade it where both sides feels it's a fair deal. To me, usually one of two things can happen when an art owner holds artwork that they like and generally don't want to get rid of and are approached unsolicited by the proactive if not aggressive actions of another collector trying to pursue that piece... 1) a higher than market value price (so, let's say you just beat a person for the piece on eBay or via a dealer's site, simply adding a few bucks to the new owner is probably not motivating), generally it's 50% to 100% more than the last sales price on lower end pages under $1,000; or 2) which is really what motivates me the most, a fair trade and exchange of artwork, getting something I want more (not more in value necessarily since artwork generally has no price guide) than what I own and can now trade out.

 

I love trades since it's getting and giving something that normally wouldn't be for sale, but the exchange is motivated by the exchange of exclusive property more so than money which is a replacable asset that everyone has access to.

 

I feel some although some folks say "everything has a price" and I belive that to be true for all art, otherwise the owner, who is a mortal, may be deemed insane for turning down a billion dollar offer, which is a price... however, in the spirit of reality, not everything has a reasonable sales price, so with that not everything is for sale, so, yes, there might be an Adam Hughes piece someone paid $6,000 for, and yes, it might be worth up to $12,000 today, but no, nobody will probably pay the $25,000+ that owner is looking for that would take him or her to sell it...

 

For trade however, that's where some pieces can exchange hands more easily. I hear a lot of the bigger pieces are often exchanged that way or hybrid deals that includes multiple pieces and/or partial cash.

[groovyedwin]

Good question. There are those that are helpful and those that try to take advantage.

 

Just learn to walk away from those trying to take advantage and you will enjoy the hobby more.

 

If you want to assemble the book, the best bet could be to get it as soon as it is available to avoid having any pages fall into the hands of those that try to take advantage. If not, then be happy with what you have.

 

Terry's story reminds of a person who out bid me in an auction and then within a month tried to sell me the items for what they paid. That made for a good laugh.

 

Edwin

[LastRaven]

I think that it doesn't make a difference to me per se. If someone wanted a page I had for sale, I think I'd be much more willing to trade than to bargain on it.

 

If they are a "true" collector in the sense that they have similar interests to me, I would never really want to sell them something I was never intending to sell myself and I'm sure the fellow would understand. If I was interested in something they had, even if it wasn't of equal value, I would expect that they would extend the same courtesy to me. It's a unique collection so it's only fair to ask for something equally unique in return.

[WYLDCHYLD]

I've been on both sides of this question: there are books I myself am trying to assemble, and books that other collectors are trying to assemble that I have given up pages for...

 

In my thought, if a collector is truly making an effort to assemble a book that is a reasonable book to try to assemble (in other words, not something like "I'm trying to assemble "Batman: The Killing Joke"..."), and they already have a few pages in hand showing that they are indeed making this a serious project (at least 1/3 the book), then I'd not want to stand in their way, as it's usually nostalgia driven, and the page probably means way more to them than me at that point...

 

I know one collector was trying to assemble Avengers# 177 (no pun intended), and owned most of the pages, I owned a few pages and the "death scene" splash. He owned most of the other panel pages, so I sold him mine, including the splash, which I really, really, really didn't want to sell, but again, I've BEEN THERE in his position, and his passion to the project was very genuine. He's almost there, and I'd love to see him finish it. (I did keep a few full-size high-res color zerox copies of these pages for myself)

 

Another collector is trying to assemble page from What if #29. I know he has most of them. I own none of them, but I HAVE pointed collectors towards him that have owned pages. Why? Because I'd want the same thing done for me.

 

It's nice to see collectors assembling books if they really mean something to them.

 

In my own case, I have run into collectors who have pages from books I'm also trying to put together, and if they're not for sale at the moment, I will either make them an offer of over-value to tempt them, or leave my contact info if ever they want to part with it, and am usually in that way assured that those pages will eventually find their way to me if they ever shake loose, but the important part of this is that I KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, so if it truly ever came down to it being the very last page I'm missing, another plea could be made, as most of us surely wouldn't want to be the one thing keeping a book apart after someone went through so much effort to assemble all the other pages.

 

In some cases, a trade for a similar example page of the same hero by the same artist can be made.

Example:

If I'd like someone's page from Defenders #44, I could maybe trade a better page from Defenders #45 for it.

Both are Defenders pages drawn by Keith Giffen from the same storyline. If a collector just wants a good "example" of Keith Giffen Defenders, he may not care which specific issue it's from, especially if it's a nicer page, or a similar page with maybe a little cash thrown-in for his courtesy...

 

There are some books I'm trying to assemble that I only own 3 pages from (as that's all that's currently shown up in the hobby) and some that I am only missing 3 pages from in total.

 

But either way, it's good karma to help collectors assemble books if they are that serious about them.

And so far in my own experience, most collectors have been very good about helping me assemble books, and I've returned the favor.

[AvengersFan]

I would help someone trying to put togeather a book also, why not? This is just a hobby and it's supposed to be fun.

Now on that point...I am looking hard for just a couple more interiors to Avengers #92 by Sal Buscema to complete the book....anyone help me out?

:-)

Thanks!

Jay

[thethedew]

I am looking hard for just a couple more interiors to Avengers #92 by Sal Buscema to complete the book....anyone help me out?

:-) Thanks!

Jay

 

There's a handy thread for people who are attempting to assemble books to post the particulars of their quests.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=48&Number=4870841&Searchpage=3&Main=162390&Words=complete&topic=0&Search=true#Post4870841

 

I wonder if it's worth asking a Mod to have the thread 'sticky-ed' to make it more accessible to everyone?

 

Andrew

[Ferran Delgado]

I bought a book missing four pages. I got two reactions when I attempted to buy them:

-Generosity and solidarity.

-Extortion.

 

The best and the worst of the hobby.

[Claudio]

Did you give in to the extortion?

[Ferran Delgado]

Yes, I traded a Miller DD page for a couple of Hairsine pages.

 

Pages 6 and 22 of this comic:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=34465

 

When you're only two pages away from completing a 28 pages book, it's very easy to accept this kind of uneven trades. It's VERY frustrating when you're in this situation, so playing the "assemble the whole comic" card is very dangerous because it leaves you in a very vulnerable situation if the seller has no compassion, which was my case.

 

Although it's even worse when the seller simply decides not to sell.

 

And there's another important factor which adds pressure to accept the uneven deal, which is that the missing couple key pages devaluate all the pages you own, because you can't offer them anymore as "whole issue" if you ever decide to sell the book.

[SC in SC]

I'm sorry you had to experience that Ferran. I wouldn't resort to such tactics. Either the piece can be bought or it can't, but I wouldn't extort a collector just because I had one of the few or the last page they needed.

 

I have to say though that there's only one maybe two pages in my published pages collection that aren't for sale. Everything else can be bought for the right price. Some prices may be high, but that's because I like the piece, not because I hope to extort someone one day.

 

The pieces that aren't for sale can't be bought. Willed maybe, but not bought.

[artcollector9]

It doesn't have anything to do with the deal...

 

Too many collectors lie to get a piece ("I'll never sell it, I've wanted this all my life"-- and they sell it 6 months later....)

 

Plus, you give a give a bargain so he can complete the book, and he eventually sells the complete book for a handsome sum...

 

The price is the price. No bargains, no extortion.

 

 

 

 

[Messier3499]

I'm actually trying to reassemble two books:

 

Avengers #177 and

 

What If? #29 What if the Avnegers Defeated Everyone?

 

and I have run into the full spectrum of examples. I have had kind hearted folks point me to a page that they have seen out there before I found it -- I have had people offer me many (MANY) fair deals on pages from these issues.

 

AND

 

I have had a few folks completely rip me off, simply becuase they know they can.

 

its a tough road to walk when you put your 'complete the book' list out there but once you get to a certian percentage of the pages (one I am at 60 or so % and one at 80 or so %) you have no choice.

 

by the way, if anyone klnows where any pages to these issues may be.....

 

Please contact me on or off list

 

many thanks

 

Mess

 

[Claudio]

Ouch, Ferran. Sometimes, when you really want something, you have to pay a heavy toll- either through trade or cash. I'm sure we have all been there. Congrats on completing the book though. That's awesome.

[thethedew]

Yes, I traded a Miller DD page for a couple of Hairsine pages. Pages 6 and 22

 

Page 22 is particularly striking, no wonder you were anxious to have it included.

 

But a Miller DD page in exchange? OutRAGEous. He must have felt he had license to 'let his fingers do the walking' through your whole collection.

 

Here's hoping the Bad Karma Bug comes and gits him.

 

Andrew

[joel mangrum-migration]

How I would react depends on how far along they are. If they have 4 or 5 pages out of 22 I probably wouldn't sell if it is a page I really liked but if they were as far along as I am on New Mutants Annual #4 (22 out of 40) I would sell for 25-50% over fair market if I really enjoyed the piece.