CGC Favoritism - Yes or No?

[FFB]

Even though I am not at CGC yet, I was there for 4 days and saw (and participated) in the grading process. You can be 100% assured none of the graders know who's books are who's.

 

Timely

 

Well, unless the Mile High Action #1 or something similar shows up. I'm pretty sure Steve and everyone else knows who owns that book. Hell, I know who owns that book.

[sckao]

Even though I am not at CGC yet, I was there for 4 days and saw (and participated) in the grading process. You can be 100% assured none of the graders know who's books are who's.

 

Timely

 

Well, unless the Mile High Action #1 or something similar shows up. I'm pretty sure Steve and everyone else knows who owns that book. Hell, I know who owns that book.

 

Pedigrees are an exception. Those all generally go through Mark Haspel as part of the grading process.

[FFB]

Even though I am not at CGC yet, I was there for 4 days and saw (and participated) in the grading process. You can be 100% assured none of the graders know who's books are who's.

 

Timely

 

Well, unless the Mile High Action #1 or something similar shows up. I'm pretty sure Steve and everyone else knows who owns that book. Hell, I know who owns that book.

 

Pedigrees are an exception. Those all generally go through Mark Haspel as part of the grading process.

 

Hi Shin:

 

I'm not sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that Mark doesn't know who owns that book, or are you just pointing out that Mark is one of the graders on a pedigree book? Because I don't believe for a second that CGC would grade the Mile High Action #1 without Steve being the final word on it. Although I suppose I could ask him?

[sfilosa]

While I don't believe that CGC gives "special" grades to ANYONE, if the book was a PEDIGREE, they might give the BOOK a little bit more leeway. This is not uncommon as almost EVERY DEALER does this also. I usually consider this "BONUS POINTS" for excellent colors and gloss.

 

I have way more CGC'd pedigreed books that seem to be "borderline" than non-pedigree books. That said, I don't have a problem with this.

[icefires]

This pedigree thing is interesting.

I just bought the Pacific Coast DC 100 page spectacular #6 from a Heritage auction. I have another #6 CGC 9.0 that I purchased from Bedrock Comics in Texas several years ago. It is my humble opinion that my non-pedigree book is in better condition than my newly acquired Pacific Coast copy. I was actually quite disappointed when I received the PC book a short time ago, as I was thinking Pacific Coast would probably be better.

Having said that, I have considered resubmitting my original #6 many times, as I definitely think it deserves better than a 9.0

I'm so confused.

[sckao]

Even though I am not at CGC yet, I was there for 4 days and saw (and participated) in the grading process. You can be 100% assured none of the graders know who's books are who's.

 

Timely

 

Well, unless the Mile High Action #1 or something similar shows up. I'm pretty sure Steve and everyone else knows who owns that book. Hell, I know who owns that book.

 

Pedigrees are an exception. Those all generally go through Mark Haspel as part of the grading process.

 

Hi Shin:

 

I'm not sure what you meant by that. Are you saying that Mark doesn't know who owns that book, or are you just pointing out that Mark is one of the graders on a pedigree book? Because I don't believe for a second that CGC would grade the Mile High Action #1 without Steve being the final word on it. Although I suppose I could ask him?

 

No.. I'm saying there are maybe 10 graders or more at CGC. They work in teams of three, etc. From the conversations I got at the dinner, there are specific pre-graders and graders for various genres. So there is at least one team of Modern graders and pre-graders. (Shawn, Paul, etc.) It makes more sense to segregate the graders by comic age both for efficiency and to maximize grading experience. I.E. someone who has graded 400 Hulk 181s is probably more likely to notice a page is missing, etc. just by the weight of the book.

 

Mark Haspel is the Pedigree Specialist so he probably sees and grades EVERY pedigreed book. Since there are multiple CGC graders for each book (at least three.. possibly ALL of them), it stands to reason that Mark and probably Steve grade every single Pedigreed book.

 

This means that pedigreed books tend to have two out of the three graders remain the same (Mark and Steve) while other books can and will draw from among a larger pool of available graders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris also sees every book I think since he is the Resto guy.

[sckao]

This means that pedigreed books tend to have two out of the three graders remain the same (Mark and Steve) while other books can and will draw from among a larger pool of available graders.

 

The conclusion I'm trying to draw from this is that grading standards for pedigreed books will not deviate as much in terms of grading since the same people are seeing every pedigreed book.

 

Any deviations in grading would therefore be deviations in the graders' grading (I.E. They're consistently grading "tighter" or "looser" as time goes by) and not in the inherent methodology of randomness involved by getting a random grader.

 

I see this all time in sports, etc. All the umpires and referees have the same rulebook... but how they apply it differs from umpire to umpire.

[FFB]

This means that pedigreed books tend to have two out of the three graders remain the same (Mark and Steve) while other books can and will draw from among a larger pool of available graders.

 

The conclusion I'm trying to draw from this is that grading standards for pedigreed books will not deviate as much in terms of grading since the same people are seeing every pedigreed book.

 

Any deviations in grading would therefore be deviations in the graders' grading (I.E. They're consistently grading "tighter" or "looser" as time goes by) and not in the inherent methodology of randomness involved by getting a random grader.

 

I see this all time in sports, etc. All the umpires and referees have the same rulebook... but how they apply it differs from umpire to umpire.

 

All true, but my point was in response to Timely, who said that the CGC guys never know whose book they are grading. I think you and I agree on the point I was making, which is that if a "big" book like the Edgar Church Action #1 came in the door, all of the graders, the receptionist, and maybe even the janitor would know who it belonged to. Same with the Marvel Comics #1 Pay Copy, the Edgar Church Cap. #1, etc.

[sckao]

This means that pedigreed books tend to have two out of the three graders remain

 

All true, but my point was in response to Timely, who said that the CGC guys never know whose book they are grading. I think you and I agree on the point I was making, which is that if a "big" book like the Edgar Church Action #1 came in the door, all of the graders, the receptionist, and maybe even the janitor would know who it belonged to. Same with the Marvel Comics #1 Pay Copy, the Edgar Church Cap. #1, etc.

 

Oh.. yes, no question. Someone at the dinner brought up that Steve knows every single book he's ever owned... so he recognizes his own books when they come in for grading.

 

Mark Haspel was also the person (hearsay) who recognized pedigreed books coming through that were being resubmitted. So not only can they recognize famous pedigreed books, they also recognize pedigreed books that have already been graded which are being resubmitted. (So they probably know something has been done to the book.. they just can't empirically tell that it's not done professionally.)

[Timely]

This means that pedigreed books tend to have two out of the three graders remain the same (Mark and Steve) while other books can and will draw from among a larger pool of available graders.

 

The conclusion I'm trying to draw from this is that grading standards for pedigreed books will not deviate as much in terms of grading since the same people are seeing every pedigreed book.

 

Any deviations in grading would therefore be deviations in the graders' grading (I.E. They're consistently grading "tighter" or "looser" as time goes by) and not in the inherent methodology of randomness involved by getting a random grader.

 

I see this all time in sports, etc. All the umpires and referees have the same rulebook... but how they apply it differs from umpire to umpire.

 

All true, but my point was in response to Timely, who said that the CGC guys never know whose book they are grading. I think you and I agree on the point I was making, which is that if a "big" book like the Edgar Church Action #1 came in the door, all of the graders, the receptionist, and maybe even the janitor would know who it belonged to. Same with the Marvel Comics #1 Pay Copy, the Edgar Church Cap. #1, etc.

 

Most people in the hobby know where the big books are, but that's not always the case. Many times when a book is being submitted to CGC it's because the book is being sold or has already been sold and the new owner submits it.

 

The Edgar Church Cap. #1 you mention is a perfect example. I've known the whereabouts on this book for years, however the book just sold in Heritage a few months ago. If the new owner were to resubmit it to CGC for any reason I would not know who's book it was...nor would I care.

 

Timely

[Literati-migration]

FYI I believe there is favoritism latent in CGC's grading. I have proof. Currently the under-updated census has 1 spiderman green graded 10.0 and 4 spider man silvers 10.0. I happened to find out that colossus comics got back 4 greens and 20 silvers 10.0! cummon! it took 670 greens to get 1 10.0 and 1000 silvers to get 4 10.0's. All of a sudden you expect me to believe that by pure chance or prescreening did colossus comics wind up with so many 10.0's? he basically has increased the green 10.0s by 400% and the silvers by 400%. and you dont think there is favoritism? and by the way i saw one and it had a big flaw undeserving of a 10.0.

[PovertyRow]

and by the way i saw one and it had a big flaw undeserving of a 10.0.

 

Scan?

[FFB]

FYI I believe there is favoritism latent in CGC's grading. I have proof. Currently the under-updated census has 1 spiderman green graded 10.0 and 4 spider man silvers 10.0. I happened to find out that colossus comics got back 4 greens and 20 silvers 10.0! cummon! it took 670 greens to get 1 10.0 and 1000 silvers to get 4 10.0's. All of a sudden you expect me to believe that by pure chance or prescreening did colossus comics wind up with so many 10.0's? he basically has increased the green 10.0s by 400% and the silvers by 400%. and you dont think there is favoritism? and by the way i saw one and it had a big flaw undeserving of a 10.0.

 

Suuuuuuuure you did.

[drbanner]

FYI I believe there is favoritism latent in CGC's grading. I have proof. Currently the under-updated census has 1 spiderman green graded 10.0 and 4 spider man silvers 10.0. I happened to find out that colossus comics got back 4 greens and 20 silvers 10.0! cummon! it took 670 greens to get 1 10.0 and 1000 silvers to get 4 10.0's. All of a sudden you expect me to believe that by pure chance or prescreening did colossus comics wind up with so many 10.0's? he basically has increased the green 10.0s by 400% and the silvers by 400%. and you dont think there is favoritism? and by the way i saw one and it had a big flaw undeserving of a 10.0.

 

Well, I guess that settles that!

[sterlingcomics]

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

BTW, don't forget to check the CGG countdown...I'm trying to get a special guest to come in every week

[sckao]

FYI I believe there is favoritism latent in CGC's grading. I have proof. Currently the under-updated census has 1 spiderman green graded 10.0 and 4 spider man silvers 10.0. I happened to find out that colossus comics got back 4 greens and 20 silvers 10.0! cummon! it took 670 greens to get 1 10.0 and 1000 silvers to get 4 10.0's. All of a sudden you expect me to believe that by pure chance or prescreening did colossus comics wind up with so many 10.0's? he basically has increased the green 10.0s by 400% and the silvers by 400%. and you dont think there is favoritism? and by the way i saw one and it had a big flaw undeserving of a 10.0.

 

There are two things here: One, is the charge that Colossus Comics is getting preferential treatment. Two: That CGC's grading is now more lax.

 

In response to one, since Colossus Comics is in the business of getting books graded CGC 9.8 or better, it stands to reason that they can pre-screen themselves at least on a 9.8 level. This increases their chances of getting a 9.9 or 10.0 through their submissions since they already know what it takes to get at least a 9.8.

 

Now here's something that may or may not affect number two. If you send in 50 copies of the same book that you've pre-screened yourself (from experience) to be 9.8 or better... will the grader see all 50 books sequentially one after the other? In this case, will seeing multiple copies of a book cause a subtle shift in the grading? I.E. this book is better than the last one which got a 9.8, so logically, it has to get a 9.9 or 10.0. This happens in Ice Skating since the judges are judging based on the current skater but also on how that skater should stand based on the other skaters that have already skated or WILL skate. Sometimes, apparently, judges will reserve giving the highest grades for skaters because they need to leave room for a skater that may score higher.

 

In this case, grading the same book over and over may subtly influence the grader since they'll be subconsciously comparing the current book to the dozens of previous books. (Granted, this will happen more with the 9.6-9.9 books since a 10.0 book should be perfect in all respects.)

 

 

This is also why Lighthouse is able to get more 10.0's than you would normally expect. He's done it before.. he knows what to look for and what will not pass the CGC screeners.

 

Now, getting a 10 from the final grader is not the end of the process. That book must then be encapsulated. I've been told that the encapsulator does not actually touch the book (or pick it up) to encapsulate it, but that doesn't mean the book can't be damaged after grading during the encapsulation or shipping process.

[Mephisto]

Even though I am not at CGC yet, I was there for 4 days and saw (and participated) in the grading process. You can be 100% assured none of the graders know who's books are who's.

 

Timely

 

What about when those pedigrees come in and you say. Oh boy this is the Mile High Action Comics 44. This is Tony G.'s book. I know you know where a lot of the none key books are to pedigrees don't you Timley.

[Literati-migration]

why do you cgc zealots have such closed minds? trust me i saw one, it had that same flaw many of them do with a sort of defect near the bottom center that is an inch long impression. i have a scan, but i dont wanna show it... just to keep you unconditional cgc defenders in suspense.

[FFB]

why do you cgc zealots have such closed minds? trust me i saw one, it had that same flaw many of them do with a sort of defect near the bottom center that is an inch long impression. i have a scan, but i dont wanna show it... just to keep you unconditional cgc defenders in suspense.

 

[PovertyRow]

i have a scan, but i dont wanna show it... just to keep you unconditional cgc defenders in suspense.

 

That is the typical "I don't have proof but want to pretend to" argument. You got a freaking scan show it. If not, any reference you make to that book is a baseless accusation.

 

And I don;t even submit books to CGC but am ticked about this arrogance.