Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[ygogolak]

10 hours ago, kimik said:

They died as soon as the Image speculators left for the next title. That is basically why Image saw a spike in overall sales for a couple of years. I am glad that the creators were able to cash in at the start at least, even though the majority of titles were done before issue #10.........

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop spreading misinformation. Todd ended because one of the creators abandoned the project.

[ygogolak]

Thread title "Moderns Heating Up".

Maybe start a different threat "Moderns that have sold for $20 for years" and include some Carnage books that the masses didn't know about. Sinner Takes All #3. I'll throw in a couple, Lady Deadpool #1, Merc with a Mouth #7....

[kimik]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop spreading misinformation. Todd ended because one of the creators abandoned the project.

Were you one of the pump and dumpers on some of the books? Take a look at the sales numbers and you can see why books died. Some had creator issues, but most tanked due to speculators moving to the next title.

Edited September 20, 2018 by kimik

[the blob]

19 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

I still can't believe you missed out on selling any when they were briefly hot.

Work, family, and health have kept me from selling for almost a year. Haven't been here that much either. Lately I am trying to restart my interest. Won't even go to nycc this year. Tired and broke.

[ygogolak]

21 minutes ago, kimik said:

Were you one of the pump and dumpers on some of the books? Take a look at the sales numbers and you can see why books died. Some had creator issues, but most tanked due to speculators moving to the next title.

Please find one instance of P & D that I have made. I comment on books and stories that I like. That is the best speculation out there.

I was late to the party on Todd, but loved it. Also really like Nailbiter and grab #1s when I see them cheap.

[Broke as a Joke]

The print runs are small enough on many of these moderns to actually be a factor in collectability years down the line.  The big question is will the young readers actually care about them (comics in general) 25 years later when they have disposable income.  I can't see Hollywood pushing superhero movies forever.  

[ygogolak]

29 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

The print runs are small enough on many of these moderns to actually be a factor in collectability years down the line.  The big question is will the young readers actually care about them (comics in general) 25 years later when they have disposable income.  I can't see Hollywood pushing superhero movies forever.  

All the ones mentioned by one poster were Independents and Image heavy. Image has very few super-hero titles. I think that's what's great about their stories but also why the masses seem to stick to the Big 2. Along with notoriety of course.

[500Club]

2 hours ago, ygogolak said:

13 hours ago, kimik said:

They died as soon as the Image speculators left for the next title. That is basically why Image saw a spike in overall sales for a couple of years. I am glad that the creators were able to cash in at the start at least, even though the majority of titles were done before issue #10.........

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop spreading misinformation. Todd ended because one of the creators abandoned the project.

As a show and internet dealer, he knows exactly what he's talking about.   These internet hyped titles played well in the speculator echo chambers, but not so much at shows or LCSs.   The lack of perpetuated interest meant that as soon as the speculators were gone, that was it for any visible interest in these books.

When he says the books 'died', he's talking about interest levels, not the actual ending of the title.

[500Club]

6 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The 180/181 debate is essentially about rules. What are the rules of this hobby. What is a first appearance? And why do some first appearances matter and others not so much. 

This is just the most prominent example of a 1st appearance of a major character being far less valuable than his second. 

This has relevance to this thread as it pertains to modern books heating up for (the most part) 1st appearances, and what that means.  

It comes down to this: there are no rules

I know that doesn't sit well with the finicky, OCD type collectors, but there it is.  In general, it's the introductory issue with the 'most meat', often cover appearance and full story, but there are all kinds of exceptions.

Play it where it lies.

[ygogolak]

16 minutes ago, 500Club said:

As a show and internet dealer, he knows exactly what he's talking about.   These internet hyped titles played well in the speculator echo chambers, but not so much at shows or LCSs.   The lack of perpetuated interest meant that as soon as the speculators were gone, that was it for any visible interest in these books.

When he says the books 'died', he's talking about interest levels, not the actual ending of the title.

As a show and internet dealer you should know that happens with every single book now. Not "hyped" independent titles. The Big 2 movie books are the most over-hyped books out there.

Marvel Preview #4 sold for a high of $3,900 in 2014. The year of the fist GOTG film. The high so far this year is $2,300. Still a popular movie character and actor in general. The market has changed a lot in the past 5 years. Internet hype is a subset of that, but not the only reason.

Also, Todd is no longer a current title. As I stated. If the writer would have kept it going we do not know where the value would be. Again, as I stated, look at Saga.

Edited September 20, 2018 by ygogolak

[500Club]

1 minute ago, ygogolak said:

17 minutes ago, 500Club said:

As a show and internet dealer, he knows exactly what he's talking about.   These internet hyped titles played well in the speculator echo chambers, but not so much at shows or LCSs.   The lack of perpetuated interest meant that as soon as the speculators were gone, that was it for any visible interest in these books.

When he says the books 'died', he's talking about interest levels, not the actual ending of the title.

As a show and internet dealer you should know that happens with every single book now. Not "hyped" independent titles. The Big 2 movie books are the most over-hyped books out there.

Marvel Preview #4 sold for a high of $3,900 in 2014. The year of the fist GOTG film. The high so far this year is $2,300. Still a popular movie character and actor in general. The market has changed a lot in the past 5 years. Internet hype is a subset of that, but not the only reason.

Yeah, agree, but for a lot of the Image cohort circa 2012, internet hype was the only reason.  With the hyped movie books, there's a surge of interest, but when it fades, you're still left with a baseline support of interest.

[ygogolak]

2 minutes ago, 500Club said:

Yeah, agree, but for a lot of the Image cohort circa 2012, internet hype was the only reason.  With the hyped movie books, there's a surge of interest, but when it fades, you're still left with a baseline support of interest.

2012 is around the time when people who didn't read comics started coming online. When the sports card people moved over to comics. More and more everyday now.

[500Club]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

6 minutes ago, 500Club said:

Yeah, agree, but for a lot of the Image cohort circa 2012, internet hype was the only reason.  With the hyped movie books, there's a surge of interest, but when it fades, you're still left with a baseline support of interest.

2012 is around the time when people who didn't read comics started coming online. When the sports card people moved over to comics. More and more everyday now.

Which is a good thing if they end up being readers.

Sadly, if they just speculate, they'll probably do it badly, and ultimately leave disillusioned like the johnny-come-latelys circa 1994.

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, 500Club said:

Which is a good thing if they end up being readers.

Sadly, if they just speculate, they'll probably do it badly, and ultimately leave disillusioned like the johnny-come-latelys circa 1994.

And thus the abundance of the variant age we are in.

[500Club]

33 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Also, Todd is no longer a current title. As I stated. If the writer would have kept it going we do not know where the value would be. Again, as I stated, look at Saga.

Given sales numbers of the last issue, and the fact there was no LCS or show buzz at all about the book, I'm guessing there'd still be a tiny niche following of vocal supporters, and the value would be cover price.

[ygogolak]

42 minutes ago, 500Club said:

Given sales numbers of the last issue, and the fact there was no LCS or show buzz at all about the book, I'm guessing there'd still be a tiny niche following of vocal supporters, and the value would be cover price.

Dropoff from issue #1 to #8 (last issue) was less than 50%. Only 8 issues were released over 12 months though. A failing of most Image books since the beginning.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/19/2018 at 1:10 PM, 500Club said:

It's interesting, the debate about 'why this book and not that book?', especially with muddy introductions like Kamala Khan.   I think you're right, in that there's definitely a tendency that once the train has left the station, as far as anointing the key book, that's it.   As far as a current objective reason why 181 is worth so much more currently, @valiantman put it best:  he's on the cover.  That's a huge driver in this age of slab and cover collecting.

There's a lot of teeth gnashing in this thread about one book being recognized over another, and the market isn't exactly consistent, either.  I suspect in some cases, especially with new characters, that people may be 'talking their book'.  The question I have is, why the incessant debate?  You're the latest in a long list to challenge the 180/181 hierarchy.  Why? 

In golf, there's an expression: 'play it where it lies'.  At this point people should probably just accept the dictates of the market, or, if you really think the market has it wrong and will change, then, for God's sake, don't shout it to the high heavens, just keep quiet and load up on the book you feel is overlooked.

We all agree that Hulk 181 is ~not~ the 1st Appearance of Wolverine, correct? Hulk 180 is. 

Take a look at eBay right now. 

https://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2332490.m4084.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xhulk+181.TRS0&_nkw=hulk+181

Virtually everyone selling that book says it’s the “1st” appearance of Wolverine. 

 

[Lazyboy]

3 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Virtually everyone selling that book says it’s the “1st” appearance of Wolverine.

Nice exaggeration. There are a lot of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons on there, but it's just barely a majority that put "1st Wolverine" (or some variation of that inaccuracy) in the listing title.

[500Club]

29 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

46 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Virtually everyone selling that book says it’s the “1st” appearance of Wolverine.

Nice exaggeration. There are a lot of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons on there, but it's just barely a majority that put "1st Wolverine" (or some variation of that inaccuracy) in the listing title.

And even those that do, it’s in the context of the hobby having bastardized the term.  As I have posted before, ‘first appearance’ has come to mean ‘most important or meaningfully collected’ of the character’s introduction sequence.

Think of it as a colloquialization...  if I refer to someone as ‘bro’, I don’t literally mean to indicate they’re my brother.

[PhilipB2k17]

40 minutes ago, 500Club said:

And even those that do, it’s in the context of the hobby having bastardized the term.  As I have posted before, ‘first appearance’ has come to mean ‘most important or meaningfully collected’ of the character’s introduction sequence.

Think of it as a colloquialization...  if I refer to someone as ‘bro’, I don’t literally mean to indicate they’re my brother.

Yeah, no. The entire hobby knows that Hulk 180 is the true first appearance of Wolverine. You can make arguments for why Hulk 181 is more valuable ( Great first story; great cover, iconic confrontation with the Hulk; first "Full" appearance; historical preference, etc.). But what it absolutely is not, is the first appearance of Wolverine in a published comic book.