safe deposit boxes 1 1

[Cat-Man_America]

I can honestly say that as both a collector of coins and currency; and comic books, I have never had a problem with safe deposit box storage. I do want to remind anyone considering a home safe to read the important information provided on the 'ASK CGC' forum. I feel so sorry for the original poster and thank him so much for sharing his story. Just think of the amount of collections he has saved.

 

Sincerely,

 

'mint'

 

 

Mint, would you mind providing a link to that source.

 

I searched the 'ASK CGC' forum and found nothing about fireproof safes or safes in general. Of course my searching capabilities on these forums is occasionally lacking and the information may have been right there in front of me.

 

While not having read the story you are referencing, I think we can agree that any anecdotal horror story about safe storage is one too many.

 

That said, SDB horror stories aren't without precedent. There have been cases of flood damage, theft and tragic mistakes made by banks where original owner's possessions were disposed of through state auction as unclaimed goods. While these situations are rare, my contention is that nothing is fail-proof.

 

Bank vault storage conditions will vary and every collector must provide his/her own due diligence to insure that their collectibles have consistent protection from the elements. That would involve routine cursory examination of any storage for tell-tale changes in appearance of slabbed books especially in respect to staples which can rust over time in overly humid conditions. Naturally, this is true of both bank SDB's and home safes.

 

My point was not to castigate anyone or disrespect those who've provided testimonial support for SDB attributes, but I'd hope that folks who have reservations about the use of home safes based upon anecdotal information aren't closed minded to the fact that the right safe might be a desirable, ...dare I say safe, alternative.

 

 

Here are a couple of non-forum perspectives on securing valuables and the pros and cons of each...

 

http://www.sdspec.com/PDF/SDBHS.pdf

 

http://www.viddler.com/explore/goldsilver/videos/4/

[mintcollector]

DavidMerryweather,

 

Just got to the Ask CGC forum and read the thread five posts down. It starts with...'Important information...'

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

DavidMerryweather,

 

Just got to the Ask CGC forum and read the thread five posts down. It starts with...'Important information...'

 

 

Thanks, Mint. (thumbs u

 

I do remember reading this story years ago while researching fire-proof safes, long before lurking these boards in fact. That tragic tale probably scared a lot of folks away from storing their collectibles in home safes. Of course I'd never have recommended the safe Bruce used for storing rare collectibles long term, but hindsight is 20/20 and there are other options for fire-resistent safes.

 

It's worth noting that several pages into that thread Bruce revealed he'd been using a relatively low-end Sentry safe, probably similar to the one I used briefly back in the 1970's. That particular safe was a terrible design that sweated like Carlsbad Caverns. Are all of Sentry's safes built this way? I can't say, but I suspect the cheap ones are and their proprietary "water crystal" enhanced design is probably just a means of price point low-balling competing safe manufacturers.

 

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm belaboring the point, but my contention isn't that all fire proof safes are appropriate for storing rare paper collectibles, but rather that not all fire proof safes should be presumed risky. Even in Steve's fire-safe warning thread there was no consistent pattern of damage established through the various testimonials by thread participants.

 

Conversely, seeing the images of disintegrating staples scroll by in post after post is like rubbernecking a fatal car wreck, it effectively makes the viewer nauseous and fearful, but without knowing exactly what led up to the accident how can the passerby know the cause?

 

Were any tests ever done to definitively establish the culprit or at least a cause/effect relationship? It seems not.

 

It's unfortunate that there was so little discussion in that thread about different safe manufacturers, much less the various types of tested fire safes available (UL125 as opposed to UL350 for instance; the former affording far greater protection to collectible paper memorabilia in the event of fire or flood).

 

As informative as that thread could have been, it was overshadowed by the understandable empathy and underlying panic which culminates from a rush to judgment. I can't help wondering now, five years down the line, if any new information about the risk factors associated with long term collectible storage has been discovered?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2011 by DavidMerryweather

[Fallsview]

 

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

[silverweb]

In one of my safe deposit boxes, I keep one of those instruments that record the max and min temperature and humidity since the last time it was reset. I live in an area where temperature varies a lot so it offers a little extra reassurance.

 

Good idea. I was thinking that too. Along with the silica gel, I would deem it pretty safe. Except the lack of access. You want to be able to touch and enjoy your "pretties" (from Oliver Twist)

[silverweb]

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

I think your CGC books would be safer than raw books. Especially since they are more airtight and have the microchamber paper

[Cat-Man_America]

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

Unless something has changed CGC doesn't vacuum seal books into holders, but it wouldn't surprise me if a special cryo-holder and freezer safe label isn't on the drawing board.

 

In answer to your question, the holder has a secure inner well and tabs on the bottom and side which hold the book in place, but air exposure isn't completely restricted. I don't know if the inert material is better than mylar but it's a heck of a lot sturdier, affording the best protection from handling and storage damage.

 

The long term impact of keeping both raw and CGC holder books in a SDB would be an interesting study. Theoretically there should be no difference if both are kept under the same conditions with micro-chamber paper placed in the raw book to absorb contaminants.

 

It's reasonable to assume that most safe deposit boxes are well protected from the elements, but climate control is an unknown as it probably varies from bank to bank.

 

Ideal humidity for books isn't zero, but around 40 to 50%, and a completely dry environment isn't any better for pulp paper than an overly wet one. Also, temperature matters. A consistently cool storage area is far better for comic storage than one that is hot or subject to fluctuating temperature extremes.

 

Here is one authoritative overview of book preservation...

 

http://dlis.dos.state.fl.us/archives/preservation/books/index.cfm

 

While the article isn't specific to pulp paper, it does address temperature and contaminant exposure; this can be extrapolated to pulp paper which is even more fragile.

[Moondog]

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

Other than protecting your comics from storage and handling damage, CGC cases provide no further protection (and probably less against water) than any poly bag. Here is an example of a book that was in a box when my basement flooded. The water was about 3-4 inches deep. Once the water entered the case it was sucked right up by the paper.

 

 

[damonwad]

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

Other than protecting your comics from storage and handling damage, CGC cases provide no further protection (and probably less against water) than any poly bag. Here is an example of a book that was in a box when my basement flooded. The water was about 3-4 inches deep. Once the water entered the case it was sucked right up by the paper.

 

 

 

Hey, the label says 7.0 so it's a 7.0.

Oh, and no returns on CGC graded comics.

 

[Moondog]

Aside from fire and flood, I was wondering if storing CGC books in a SDB would have any negative affect at all versus a raw book ? Isn't a CGC book vacuum sealed into its protective case first, and isn't this material better than mylar ?

 

I know it's far from a perfect science in removing all air and particles but exposure should be less than a raw book right ? If the book is no longer exposed to sun and if the bank is climate controlled, aren't most of the elements (mainly humidity) minimized now ?

 

Other than protecting your comics from storage and handling damage, CGC cases provide no further protection (and probably less against water) than any poly bag. Here is an example of a book that was in a box when my basement flooded. The water was about 3-4 inches deep. Once the water entered the case it was sucked right up by the paper.

 

 

 

Hey, the label says 7.0 so it's a 7.0.

Oh, and no returns on CGC graded comics.

 

[Ze-man]

Did you have 2 copies of that Great 1 get flooded Gary?

 

That one has different stains then I remember. But the pencil looks very familiar.

 

Or did the stains/moisture migrate even more before you removed it from the innerwell?

[Moondog]

Did you have 2 copies of that Great 1 get flooded Gary?

 

That one has different stains then I remember. But the pencil looks very familiar.

 

Or did the stains/moisture migrate even more before you removed it from the innerwell?

 

I only had the one copy get drenched, Kenny. That was it.

[Cat-Man_America]

Did you have 2 copies of that Great 1 get flooded Gary?

 

That one has different stains then I remember. But the pencil looks very familiar.

 

Or did the stains/moisture migrate even more before you removed it from the innerwell?

 

I only had the one copy get drenched, Kenny. That was it.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

Sadly, there is nothing that can provide absolute protection from the elements. To paraphrase The Tick's line about gravity: Mother Nature is (also) a harsh mistress.

 

Obviously, renting a SDB is a good choice for many collectors and under most circumstances it offers greater protection from theft and natural disaster. Conversely, a well designed safe provides easier owner access and better control over the storage environment. Each form of security has pros and cons, and insurance is a prerequisite in both cases, but just so everyone is clear on the kind of safe I've been talking about...

 

http://www.keystoneoffice.com/safes/phoenix-media-safe-4623.html

 

This is a high quality data grade safe rated UL125 for two hours (contents of safe will remain below 125 degrees for two hours in the event of a fire), with protection from flame, smoke and water damage. It isn't the exact model I have, but is built by the same manufacturer. Also, it is my understanding that the data shelving in this model can be eliminated and replaced by shelving as displayed on right.

 

Clearly this isn't for everybody, but for anyone thinking along these lines, who knows, maybe I've saved someone a few steps in the research process. FTR, I've had no staple rust problems with any of my books nor any paper degradation, and I examine my collection regularly. Changing out gel packets in any perceived humid conditions should be part of routine comic maintenance, but in my experience this type of safe hasn't demonstrated any tendencies toward moisture accumulation.

 

If storing valuable comics at home this is one kind of protection worth considering.

[The Lions Den]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2011 at 1:35 AM, Moondog said:

I consider myself a caretaker in a sense, that's why I keep the important stuff in a SDB.

And as caretakers, we are destined to go to great lengths for these priceless artifacts...even locking them away behind bars when necessary...