Whats the best strategic timeline ?

[Underground44]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

 

Because the grade is already there on the label.. There's no guess work involved

[miraclemet]

CGC has been lucky/strategic in that they were the right service/right place/right time.

 

As the marketplace moved from comic shops and convention halls to online (by % of business) CGC has filled a valuable role in taking the majority of guesswork out of assessing a comics condition online via photos/scans. It used to take lots of photos & scans to convince someone to spend big $$ on a book. But now list the CGC grade and a photo snapped from your phone and you have a pretty easy time selling a comic that has a market because CGC has taken the guesswork away.

 

 

Obviously there’s still plenty of sales at shops and shows, just less by % than there was 10 years ago when ebay was young and the online salesmarkets (like here) were in their infancy.

 

I think CGC has also helped the show marketplace too. I think (though I haven’t asked) most dealers feel a little less nervous about packing, moving, and displaying a slabbed high grade GA book vs the past when it would have sat in a mylar or a mylar with a hard slipcase. Also there arent requests to take CGC books out of their bag/board for further inspection because a) you can’t and b)you don’t need to. CGC has graded the book, they've even gone so far as to note non-visible defects on the interior including page condition, detached centerfolds etc.

So now a dealer can display a book and not worry about how a customer might handle it!

 

Competing with CGC would be tough, basically the only way it would happen would be to do the grading a) faster or b) cheaper while maintaining a good reputation and accurate grading by pros. PGX has tried this but I don’t think they’ve held up the reputation/accuracy part that needs to be maintained.

 

Maybe one of the other authentication companies that aren't in the coin/comic business like PSA/DNA that does have a long history in another similar market (this one being sports cards & autographs).

 

I think CGCs recent work to create a community around comic book grading (with the message boards, the competitive sets site, etc) only helps them cement their position as #1, and make any newcomer have a very steep uphill battle to compete.

 

[Dr. Balls]

 

Oh, I totally agree. Just wondering what PGX will become as the years go by

 

As the years go by they will continue to be . Even if they straighten up their act it's too late. Their reputation is already too severely tarnished. There is certainly room for healthy competition for CGC, but PGX isn't it. And I strongly disagree with your suggestion that, should PGX go under, their slabs can ever become collectors items.

 

I'd like to think that CGC is smart enough to not let something like PGX go under - I would guess a buyout would be in the best interest of the industry and long-term assurance that collectors who invest in these services won't get burned by a company going under.

 

I see that as being a powerhouse move on CGC's part - and it can simply be a matter of telling PGX collectors to send books in for re-grading and re-holdering (for a fee) to participate in the CGC registry.

[MrBedrock]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

 

That's not necessarily true. The fact that CGC comics routinely command a premium over raw comics means it's more than just the comic inside.

Nope. It's the comics.

 

If it's solely the comics, then why do CGC graded comics tend to sell for a sharp premium over raw comics?

How many people do you figure buy CGC slabs with no consideration of the comic inside?

 

Slabbed comics do not sell for sharp increases over raw comics across the board. Just take a look at some of the books graded 1.0, 2.0 etc. In fact I'll tell you that low grade comics are easier to sell raw than slabbed. But high grade books do sell for sharp increases when slabbed because they have been quantified in relation to all other copies of the same book. They therefore become more desirable to those who are looking for copies of that comic in that specific grade. In effect, the CGC holder makes the comic more liquid. But people are paying for the book, not the holder or the label.

 

I never said people give no consideration to the comic inside, that would be an absurd suggestion. I simply stated that there is value added with CGC certification. First, and foremost peace of mind. This is especially important when buying online, where you can't closely inspect and scrutinize the comic. And there are other intangibles, such as building registry sets, added liquidity, added protection, etc.

 

As for lower grades selling better raw, I would need more than anecdotes to believe that. I doubt you'll be seeing many people cracking out a CGC Blue Label 1.5 Hulk 1 so they can get a better price at auction.

 

I'm assuming by, "because they have been quantified in relation to all other copies of the same book" you're referring to the census data. I don't think a high grade copy of a given book is expensive simply because the census says there aren't many graded that high. I think they're expensive simply because there is very little supply. Whether that data was available or not it would still be just as hard to find and the price would reflect that.

 

You, yourself admitted the CGC certification makes the comic more liquid. If the same exact comic becomes easier to sell inside a slab, isn't that also saying there is value added? More direct to the point. With or without the slab the comic is just as liquid. Just put it up for auction starting at 99 cents with no reserve. I promise if you keep it raw it will sell in the same amount of time right down to the second. There's no risk in doing that, since bidders are only looking at the comic with no consideration for CGC's opinion, right?

You do like to argue (thumbs u

 

The point is...people buy the comics, not the holders.

[Davenport]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

That seems to make the most sense. (thumbs u

 

At some point comic books will enter the larger world of paper artifacts and antiquities, probably around the 100 year mark. Encapsulation, CGC or PGX, will probably be right in there in with bags & boards, mylar sleeves, header card 3 packs, and other trappings of the "fandom generation".

[USArmyParatrooper]

You do like to argue (thumbs u

 

I like to discuss perspectives, especially ones that disagree with my own. You can't grow if your thoughts aren't challenged and it's much more stimulating than preaching to the choir.

 

The point is...people buy the comics, not the holders.

 

Well that's certainly true in a general sense. But many buyers not only want a particular comic, they require it to be certified. So in another sense they're buying both.

[Senormac]

I still think the prevailing view here is concerned with the "already" collector and his pursuit of the reputable, certified, slabbed comic book for reasons of investment gain.

 

When considering this threads premise, I was turning around from that view and looking at the whole worlds population and wondering how slabbed pieces of American pop culture are going to begin to flow outward from the "true collectors" into the possessions of people who just think they are neat and are happy to have only one. A conversation piece. Those kind of people 10 or 20 years from now are not gonna have any idea about CGC or PGX but they are gonna know who Batman is. They are gonna know who Spiderman, Donald Duck, and Tarzan are. Like Richard said, its really all about the comic. The best books slabbed by the most reputable company will remain in the hands of die hard comic collectors, probably being passed down to their children or donated to museums.

 

[USArmyParatrooper]

I still think the prevailing view here is concerned with the "already" collector and his pursuit of the reputable, certified, slabbed comic book for reasons of investment gain.

 

When considering this threads premise, I was turning around from that view and looking at the whole worlds population and wondering how slabbed pieces of American pop culture are going to begin to flow outward from the "true collectors" into the possessions of people who just think they are neat and are happy to have only one. A conversation piece. Those kind of people 10 or 20 years from now are not gonna have any idea about CGC or PGX but they are gonna know who Batman is. They are gonna know who Spiderman, Donald Duck, and Tarzan are. Like Richard said, its really all about the comic. The best books slabbed by the most reputable company will remain in the hands of die hard comic collectors, probably being passed down to their children or donated to museums.

 

 

Speaking for myself, I almost exclusively only buy CGC comics for anything expensive. For me it's not about investment returns, it's about not getting screwed. I imagine there are much better deals that can be found with raw comics, so to me they make more sense as investments.

 

Also, I have no reason to doubt CGC will still be around decades from now.

[MrBedrock]

The one thing PGX and CGC have in common...they are both simply labels.

At any point in the near or distant future it will still be all about the book inside.

That seems to make the most sense. (thumbs u

 

At some point comic books will enter the larger world of paper artifacts and antiquities, probably around the 100 year mark. Encapsulation, CGC or PGX, will probably be right in there in with bags & boards, mylar sleeves, header card 3 packs, and other trappings of the "fandom generation".

I've heard there is a thriving collectible market for Robert Bell comic bags!

[Senormac]

If nothing else..... a hoard of slabbed CGC books would be an AWESOME inheritance to receive from someone up the family tree (thumbs u

 

And we might be that first generation of "slab leavers"

[Dr. Balls]

Speaking for myself, I almost exclusively only buy CGC comics for anything expensive. For me it's not about investment returns, it's about not getting screwed. I imagine there are much better deals that can be found with raw comics, so to me they make more sense as investments.

 

Same here. Although, I don't spend enough money on books to consider them investments - I do buy CGC books on occasion because I don't want to be screwed on a grade. Or that if I choose to sell it, the buyer knows he won't be screwed on the grade. That's the selling point for me on CGC.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Speaking for myself, I almost exclusively only buy CGC comics for anything expensive. For me it's not about investment returns, it's about not getting screwed. I imagine there are much better deals that can be found with raw comics, so to me they make more sense as investments.

 

Same here. Although, I don't spend enough money on books to consider them investments - I do buy CGC books on occasion because I don't want to be screwed on a grade. Or that if I choose to sell it, the buyer knows he won't be screwed on the grade. That's the selling point for me on CGC.

 

And of course restoration checks.

[DeliBebek]

Speaking for myself, I almost exclusively only buy CGC comics for anything expensive. For me it's not about investment returns, it's about not getting screwed. I imagine there are much better deals that can be found with raw comics, so to me they make more sense as investments.

 

Also, I have no reason to doubt CGC will still be around decades from now.

 

Numerous times on this board, I've read references to "this hobby," and normally the poster is referring to the buying and selling of slabbed comics, the swings of GPAnalysis, the cracking and resubbing, etc. None of that seems like the hobby that I'm in, which is collecting comics. It's very close, very related, but somehow it feels like two very different approaches to a similar hobby. I can't seem to isolate the difference, but probably most of you know what I mean.

 

The basic observation I have is that "this hobby" doesn't mean the same thing to all of us, and I think that's at the heart of whether slabbed comics have a significance as collectibles of themselves, or if they are just an insurance vehicle for the main product - one that leaves the product untouchable without voiding the insurance.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Speaking for myself, I almost exclusively only buy CGC comics for anything expensive. For me it's not about investment returns, it's about not getting screwed. I imagine there are much better deals that can be found with raw comics, so to me they make more sense as investments.

 

Also, I have no reason to doubt CGC will still be around decades from now.

 

Numerous times on this board, I've read references to "this hobby," and normally the poster is referring to the buying and selling of slabbed comics, the swings of GPAnalysis, the cracking and resubbing, etc. None of that seems like the hobby that I'm in, which is collecting comics. It's very close, very related, but somehow it feels like two very different approaches to a similar hobby. I can't seem to isolate the difference, but probably most of you know what I mean.

 

The basic observation I have is that "this hobby" doesn't mean the same thing to all of us, and I think that's at the heart of whether slabbed comics have a significance as collectibles of themselves, or if they are just an insurance vehicle for the main product - one that leaves the product untouchable without voiding the insurance.

 

I don't see a distinction between two different hobbies, only differences of approach. To me buying a CGC slabbed comic is just like buying for the one dealer you trust to be knowledgeable and trustworthy. CGC grading is also a vital element of the shift to online sales. Buying online allows for a vast reach of countless comics at the touch of a button. Buying CGC graded comics eliminates a great deal of the risk involved, making online buying an irreplaceable venue for me to buy comics. I live in a military town, I don't get to travel much, so buying this or that specific comic is nearly impossible.

 

In the last sentence in your post, replace "insurance" with "assurance" and I think that's a bit more accurate.