Ultimate Fantastic Four #1 - CGC 10.0

[blowout]

Do you think the types of books CGC gives 10.0s to aren't rare?

 

Can anyone say manufactured collectable?

[Illiterati-migration]

Do you think the types of books CGC gives 10.0s to aren't rare?

 

Can anyone say manufactured collectable?

 

Can anyone say it's a 9.8 on Tuesday, a 10.0 on Wednesday, a 9.9 on Thursday...?

[blowout]

Better sell it on Wednesday then.

[Silver Surfer]

I might pay $200 tops for something like that because its the FF, its a #1 issue and yes in 10 years I'm sure someone would pay $2,000+ to get their hands on it. I don't think you can rationalize it so simply and say $2 for the comic, $14 for the grading service because in reality I wouldn't want the hassle (or the cost) of submitting 25 issues to get that one 10.0 and take 3 months+ in the process. As well as people take care of their comics how many can say that they finally submitted one for grading 10 years later and it came back a 10.0? Not many. Granted this will become more common place as time goes on but there are probably enough rabid collectors around to always fill the 10.0 demand.

[Illiterati-migration]

I might pay $200 tops for something like that because its the FF, its a #1 issue and yes in 10 years I'm sure someone would pay $2,000+ to get their hands on it. I don't think you can rationalize it so simply and say $2 for the comic, $14 for the grading service because in reality I wouldn't want the hassle (or the cost) of submitting 25 issues to get that one 10.0 and take 3 months+ in the process. As well as people take care of their comics how many can say that they finally submitted one for grading 10 years later and it came back a 10.0? Not many. Granted this will become more common place as time goes on but there are probably enough rabid collectors around to always fill the 10.0 demand.

 

Good luck in your collecting.

[AlexH]

WTF???

 

[Silver Surfer]

Khaos,

 

I wasn't suggesting that I would make this part of my normal buying habits. I only own one slabbed modern comic and this is because I love the cover not because I'm speculating about how I can flip it. Actually I have never sold a single comic in 25 years of owning and collecting comics. If I make any kind of profit on my comics when I retire I will be happy. Are you telling me you wouldn't buy this issue today as an investment if someone offered it to you for $200? I'm sure I can find someone who would be willing to pay double for it tomorrow or 6 months from now on EBay. Better yet if you have one in your collection PM me and I take it off your hands.

[valiantman]

Quick "food for thought"...

 

Consider the 1994 Philadelphia nickel...

It's a nickel. It's worth $0.05.

Hundreds of millions were made.

(That's HUNDREDS of MILLIONS...)

 

But if you get a perfect grade on one of those...

you can get 10,940 TIMES the price of a nickel.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?item=3910307823

 

What's 10,940 TIMES the price of Ultimate Fantastic Four #1?

Aren't comic books thousands of times rarer than a common nickel?

 

What I'm saying is that the coin collecting community...

(let's face it...) is older AND larger than the comic collecting community...

... they have more "prestige", "acceptance", and "establishment" in society in general...

and they have set these precedents of paying for "perfection" for years,

even on extremely common items.

 

No one is FORCED to buy these things...

so when someone does... good for them... and good for me... because I kept my money.

[fantastic_four]

I am just stating that giving a 10.0 on a modern obviously grossely exaggerates the value of that particular comic book.

 

Monetary value, or grading value? If you mean grading value, which is all the number on the label tells you...what makes you say that it's exaggerated and they overgraded it?

[fantastic_four]

Can anyone say manufactured collectable?

 

Does that mean you think the 10.0 grade is a myth, an invention by CGC, and that books with no visible defects are either common or simply don't exist?

[blowout]

Does that mean you think the 10.0 grade is a myth, an invention by CGC, and that books with no visible defects are either common or simply don't exist?

 

Lets just say that they didn't before CGC came along.

[nvidia19-migration]

Getting a little out of hand, don't you think??

 

Ultimate Fantastic Four #1

 

Watching this auction made me think of the great IPO days in 1999, when you had a new issue getting ready to finally open in the secondary market, where you and I could actually buy it.

 

It would usually price in the teens, but by the time the market makers positioned themselves, like horses about to explode out of the racing gates, for such a small initial float (key -- keeping supply small and thin initially) the actual starting bid at the open would easily go up 5-8X in the blink of an eye.

[Illiterati-migration]

Does that mean you think the 10.0 grade is a myth, an invention by CGC, and that books with no visible defects are either common or simply don't exist?

 

Lets just say that they didn't before CGC came along.

 

BO, that's a concept that people like FF will never understand.

[Illiterati-migration]

Khaos,

 

I wasn't suggesting that I would make this part of my normal buying habits. I only own one slabbed modern comic and this is because I love the cover not because I'm speculating about how I can flip it. Actually I have never sold a single comic in 25 years of owning and collecting comics. If I make any kind of profit on my comics when I retire I will be happy. Are you telling me you wouldn't buy this issue today as an investment if someone offered it to you for $200? I'm sure I can find someone who would be willing to pay double for it tomorrow or 6 months from now on EBay. Better yet if you have one in your collection PM me and I take it off your hands.

 

Under no circumstances would I even consider paying a premium because a book had been CGC-graded 10.0.

 

Again, a "10.0" could be a "10.0" ONE day, or it could be a 9.9 or a 9.8 on any OTHER day depending on the graders' moods. I'm not going to rehash my opinion of "certified grading" again, but I will say that I don't put a lot of stock in the whole concept.

[delekkerste]

Again, a "10.0" could be a "10.0" ONE day, or it could be a 9.9 or a 9.8 on any OTHER day depending on the graders' moods. I'm not going to rehash my opinion of "certified grading" again, but I will say that I don't put a lot of stock in the whole concept.

 

True, but more importantly, it's ULTIMATE FF #1, for crying out loud. A book that you can still buy raw in 9.8 for cover price at my LCS, less a 20% rebate (net cost: $1.80). Not exactly a ground-breaking book (it's a rehash of characters that have been around for more than 40 years ) or hard to find in super high grade (I believe it was the #1 selling book the month it came out) - I really have to question the motivation for anyone to pay 450 TIMES as much just so they can have a copy with a "10" on the label. IMO, there's something really pathological about paying around $800 more for an extra 0.2 on a book that is PRACTICALLY WORTHLESS otherwise.

[valiantman]

IMO, there's something really pathological about paying around $800 more for an extra 0.2 on a book that is PRACTICALLY WORTHLESS otherwise.

I'm tellin' ya... BLAME THE COINEES!

[fantastic_four]

BO, that's a concept that people like FF will never understand.

 

The only reason I feel a need to respond to your idiotically arrogant, trolling comments is because I'm never sure whether newer forum members realize them for what they are. So, this goes out to anyone with doubts--Khaos's comments are idiotically arrogant and trolling. I've studied grading as much as I possibly can, including the history which led up to the inception of CGC. Your allusions to my being CGC-biased started back with your Methuselah and Hammer shills, and they continue straight up to the present day with these Khaos-shills! It's amazing how you continue to weave the fiction far beyond the obviousness of its fallacy.

 

I would just ask you to stop being a jackarse...but hey, I realize by now that people usually can't change their core personality, so I won't bother.

[fantastic_four]

Does that mean you think the 10.0 grade is a myth, an invention by CGC, and that books with no visible defects are either common or simply don't exist?

 

Lets just say that they didn't before CGC came along.

 

Is that a yes, that you think there isn't a difference between the CGC 9.8, 9.9, and 10.0 grades? How the market values them is a separate issue, but whether or not there's actually a difference in those grades is still up for debate to most of us. Darth and Lighthouse seem to have experience in spotting the difference in those grades, but I've never seen a 9.9 or 10.0 in person to get a chance to peruse them for defects. Have you looked over examples of those grades yet?

[jimm94]

I think a CGC 10.0 comic from any era is noteworthy. In some ways, you could argue that a 10.0 is less subjective than lower grades, and is a somewhat more defendable designation. It is perfect, with no flaws. Granted, that does beg the question "What constitutes a perfect comic book?" For the sake of argument, I would say that it is a book with absolutely no production errors, and no damage caused by handling. Of course, a serious potential issue is whether or not a book can stay perfect inside the well of a CGC slab. While extremely well designed by CGC, shipping a book or even rough handling can cause damage.

 

On the other hand, all less than perfect comics have an accumulation of defects that must be scrutinized to form a subjective opinion about the overall grade. This is really where personal taste and pet peeves come into play. That’s exactly why at least three graders look at every comic at CGC and must reach a consensus. Regardless, grading will always be subject to personal interpretation, and collectors can have valid points of disagreement concerning a CGC or raw grade.

 

Regarding current comics as being easier to come by in ultra high grades, I think there is definitely some truth to that, but most books I buy each week have production, shipping or handling flaws that would keep them out of the 9.8 or higher range.

 

In particular, I find it extremely difficult to find Marvels above 9.6 once they have reached the shelf of my local comic shop (No, the shop I buy moderns from doesn't cherrypick). The printer Marvel uses is butchering many of their comics before they are even put in a box. A lot of Marvels I see each week have a vertical crease/depression along the entire length of the spine, and poorly aligned or bent staples. There also seem to be a lot of books coming off the press with wrinkles on the cover. Add to that the damage that can be incurred by shipping and mishandling by store employees, and you can end up with one seriously 9.0 or worse comic! The Marvel Ultimate line is especially difficult, due to the covers being even more susceptible to damage during shipping and handling. I nicest books I find on the shelf are DC's because their printers are not manufacturing comics with as many inherent production flaws.

 

I buy my moderns to read, but if I’m going to spend $2.25 to $3.00 per book, I want one in the best condition I can find. Each week, I pick up my comics from the pull list bin and go to the shelves to search for a higher grade replacement copy. I do own a few CGC 9.8’s as office decorations, though I personally would not pay more than $35.00 – $40.00 for one. I think the CGC 9.8 subscription service Colossus comics offers for $33.00 a month (which also includes a reader copy) is a pretty good deal for truly grade conscious modern buyers.

 

So, is UFF # 1 CGC 10.0 worth $800+ dollars? Not to me! But it is to guy who bought it, and that’s all that really matters.

[joe_collector]

So, is UFF # 1 CGC 10.0 worth $800+ dollars? Not to me! But it is to guy who bought it, and that’s all that really matters.

 

I agree, assuming (and it's a HUGE assumption) that this isn't another insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculator pinning his retirement hopes to some slabbed newprint.

 

CGC 10's are manufactured collectibles that use artificial scarcity to lure the suckers in. The book is near worthless in anything less than 9.8, but because CGC slaps a 10 on the slab, suddenly all the insufficiently_thoughtful_persons who think "it's scarce, therefore it MUST be valuable" start throwing money at it.

 

I would never sink any investment money into comics, but if I ever did, it would ONLY be for a book that had high collector demand at all grades, from G to NM. At least then, there's a verifiable market to fall back on, not the fake CGC/Dealer manipulated one.