Underground Comix 'Bijou #1'

[primeinvestibles-migration]

I recently found nice copies of this comic with s .50 cover price. Does anyone know if this a first print and values. Thanks

[Waylander]

Hey,

 

I found the following

 

First printing designated by cover size of 7 1/4" x 10", inside pages slightly smaller than cover, on white stock. Green on cover is screened in concentric circles.

 

Second printing designated by cover size of 6 5/8" x 9 5/8", inside pages sized to cover and are newsprint. Green on cover is screened with standard dot grid.

 

Value - sorry I do not know.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Waylander (thumbs u

[primeinvestibles-migration]

Thank you

[Schmakt]

not too many GPA sales, but here's what I see assuming this is "Bijou Funnies"

 

 

 

( 9.4 ) - - - - $87 Jan-2004

 

 

( 9.2 ) - - (1) $79 - $79 Sep-2011

 

 

( 8.5 ) - - - - $43 Feb-2006

 

 

( 7.0 ) - - - - $51 Apr-2008

 

 

Q ( 6.0 ) Manufacturing Error - - (1) $120 - $120 Sep-2011

 

 

EDIT: apologies... looks like that is for the 2nd print, only...

[comicwiz]

Ugcomix.info has an entry. I'd compare notes with Kenney's guide. If it's a bonafide first, it can fetch a premium.

[DailySuperpower]

According to Kennedy's guide on a first print the cover is cut larger than the guts, also the guts are on white paper, not newsprint.

 

[Moondog]

I recently exchanged some emails with Jay Lynch regarding Bijou 1. I had just lucked out and found a first printing of # 1 and was curious as to why it was so scarce. Jay is very cool. He's currently living in upstate NY and still does work for Topps.

 

Gary: Hi Jay, I just picked up a first printing of Bijou Funnies. First one I've ever owned. Do you recall the print run? Kennedy says there were 6,500 second prints, but doesn't list a number for the firsts. I've always loved the photo on the inside FC - a true classic.

 

Jay: @ 8 cents a copy, we paid $360 for the first printing of Bijou 1. Therefore there were something around 3,000 copies printed in the first printing of Bijou 1. Although there is no exact , precise count...it's somewhere around 3,000. You gotta remember that in Chicago, at that point in time few were equipped to print comic books. And the few that could do it wouldn't come near us because of the material in the book. We finally got a guy named Lenny on the southside who was printing Black Panthers' stuff to do the book....and we went in to do the binding and trimming ourselves, cause Lenny cut his hand on the trimming machine. So the whole operation was pretty casual.

 

Gary: Thanks, Jay. I'm surprised so many were printed as they are so hard to find and pricey. The hand-trimming is evident as the interior pages are all of different widths. Did they sell out quickly? Did you guys all split the printing costs? How long was it before Denis did the second printing?

 

Jay: I paid the printing costs. Denis didn't do the second printing. The second printing was done by the Print Mint. When I did the first printing of Bijou 2, Don Donahue printed it. I brought out the negs for #1, and Donahue printed the second printing of #1. We didn't go to Denis to do the first printings until ish #4. The first printing of #1 sold out in 3 months or so. I traded copies with Shelton in Austin and Zap in S.F. By the time Bijou 1 came out, Donahue had already done a second printing of Zap 1.

 

Robert then went to the Print mint with Zap 2, and they subsequently reprinted Zap 1 in a third printing, as Zap was selling like hotcakes by this time, as was Bijou and Feds n' Heads. For at that time there were only these 3 titles out.

 

'twas the print mint who paid for the second printing of Bijou 1. Donahue printed it...and the Print Mint distributed it. By this time, there was a great demand for new titles....and it seemed obvious that the Print Mint would come out on top, since they already had a distribution network going for the psycedellic posters. A little later Shelton moved to SF, and the Print Mint reprinted Feds n' Heads.

 

Gary: Do you have any Bijou 1 first printings, Jay? I'd love a near mint copy. The one I have is a VG...And thanks for the info, Jay. Much appreciated.

 

Jay: Nope. I only saved one

 

Gary: I checked the CGC census and they have not graded any first printings (just seconds). I bet a first printing in 9.4 or better could bring $5,000 - $10,000 (a la Zap 1 first printings...).

 

Jay: When Crumb did Zap #1, he sold 50 copies to some guy who kept them in a box for 30 years or so. When Crumb ran out of the first printing, he tried to buy back some copies from this guy, but the guy wouldn't sell 'em to him. Around l990, when mint copies of Zap turned up on the market, I always figured that it was that guy who sold 'em. I sold my copies that I saved from then a few years ago for about $13,000 each or so.

 

Gary: Sweet. I love hearing stories like that. It's nice that you guys can share in some of the big dough your creations are bringing today.

 

Jay: When I had 'em graded, neither copy was graded as high as the highest grade ones, though. Even though I bagged them the moment I got 'em, and wrapped them in black plastic to prevent u.v. light damage.

 

Gary: You needed to have had them pressed, Jay. The Gaines file copies are a perfect example of this. All of them had slight dings and folds. The pressers made them flat and perfect (9.4, 9.6 and 9.8) - heck, there's a 9.9 Mad 1!! Everything sold at Heritage or any of the auction houses - even eBay - is pressed today. It goes against my principles of manipulation, but the fact is that anything I buy for my collection (if I didn't buy it from the original owner) is pressed. That's the way of the comic-collecting world today.

 

Jay: Actually, in fact, there were maybe 1700 Zap #1s printed by Plymel at the most. So Kennedy's guide is wrong on that. Pam and Charey Plymell live up around where I live now...in upstate NY. Pam has a pretty good recollection of the printing of that thing, numbers-wise. And Charley recalled the fact that he used two different cans of blue ink on that printing (each a different shade of blue). The ink thing was a big controversy...Crumb didn't like the lighter color ink. And probably the majority of copies were printed with the darker color blue ink. But the ones that turn up slabbed are the lighter color blue ink...which again confirms my suspicion that most slabbed Zap 1s come from this guy's box of 'em.

 

**************************************************************************************

 

Here's my copy. The interior pages are a stiffer, white paper (as compared to normal newsprint), and all are random sizes. The trimming of the book was haphazard at best. This is the first first printing I've ever owned or seen.

 

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Nice, the controversy continues on Zap Comix #1 though. I talked to Donahue before he passed away, and saw a picture of this distribution list of the 1st print of Zap #1. The print was about 3,500 with about 500 being burned in the Mowry fire. I've talked to Plymell also, he states much less like 1,000, but doesn't recall much of those days. I'd rather believe the pretty complete Donahue invoices though... Also, you don't see Bijou Funnies #1 (1st prints) graded because CGC won't slab them due to the cover overhang issue, unless that's changed.

 

[Moondog]

Nice, the controversy continues on Zap Comix #1 though. I talked to Donahue before he passed away, and saw a picture of this distribution list of the 1st print of Zap #1. The print was about 3,500 with about 500 being burned in the Mowry fire. I've talked to Plymell also, he states much less like 1,000, but doesn't recall much of those days. I'd rather believe the pretty complete Donahue invoices though... Also, you don't see Bijou Funnies #1 (1st prints) graded because CGC won't slab them due to the cover overhang issue, unless that's changed.

 

Ah, thanks for that info. Jay had mentioned something to that effect and now it all makes sense.

[primeinvestibles-migration]

Thank you for that info. I have 4 second prints ranging from vg to Nm. What are values on second prints.

[DailySuperpower]

Thank you for that info. I have 4 second prints ranging from vg to Nm. What are values on second prints.

 

 

not too many GPA sales, but here's what I see assuming this is "Bijou Funnies"

 

 

 

( 9.4 ) - - - - $87 Jan-2004

 

 

( 9.2 ) - - (1) $79 - $79 Sep-2011

 

 

( 8.5 ) - - - - $43 Feb-2006

 

 

( 7.0 ) - - - - $51 Apr-2008

 

 

Q ( 6.0 ) Manufacturing Error - - (1) $120 - $120 Sep-2011

 

 

EDIT: apologies... looks like that is for the 2nd print, only...

[EggsAckley]

2nd print

 

[primeinvestibles-migration]

thanks

[comicwiz]

Nice, the controversy continues on Zap Comix #1 though. I talked to Donahue before he passed away, and saw a picture of this distribution list of the 1st print of Zap #1. The print was about 3,500 with about 500 being burned in the Mowry fire. I've talked to Plymell also, he states much less like 1,000, but doesn't recall much of those days. I'd rather believe the pretty complete Donahue invoices though... Also, you don't see Bijou Funnies #1 (1st prints) graded because CGC won't slab them due to the cover overhang issue, unless that's changed.

 

Not a chance.

 

The number is probably somewhere between 600 (Pam's number revealed to me in one email exchange) and 1500 which is Charlie's number. I was in regular conversation with both Plymell and Donahue, and the one thing Don would do graciously is defer to Charlie's opinion on the subject. Here is a mirrored essay Charle's wrote, and which I luckily mirrored (about a decade ago) before his server disappeared with much of the work he transferred digitally being lost.

 

As for Jay's last paragraph, my hunch is he's passing along second and third-hand info. Jay used to contribute regularly on CPG (which I should say was a pretty awesome time to be participating in the UG section of CPG) and I've shared my notes and conversations on these boards and CPG in the past decade. A lot of what I'm reading sounds like a reiteration of those info shares.

 

The bigger myth of the whole exchange that Gary shared (btw - thanks for sharing it Gary) is that someone stashed away copies of the Plymell Zap. In my opinion, based on research and many, many conversations with prominent people who were involved in the creation and dissemination of these pop cultural artifacts, is that the UG scene loves a good yarn, and that's all it is.

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Nice, the controversy continues on Zap Comix #1 though. I talked to Donahue before he passed away, and saw a picture of this distribution list of the 1st print of Zap #1. The print was about 3,500 with about 500 being burned in the Mowry fire. I've talked to Plymell also, he states much less like 1,000, but doesn't recall much of those days. I'd rather believe the pretty complete Donahue invoices though... Also, you don't see Bijou Funnies #1 (1st prints) graded because CGC won't slab them due to the cover overhang issue, unless that's changed.

 

Not a chance.

 

The number is probably somewhere between 600 (Pam's number revealed to me in one email exchange) and 1500 which is Charlie's number. I was in regular conversation with both Plymell and Donahue, and the one thing Don would do graciously is defer to Charlie's opinion on the subject. Here is a mirrored essay Charle's wrote, and which I luckily mirrored before his server disappeared with much of the work he transferred digitally being lost.

 

As for Jay's last paragraph, my hunch is he's passing along second and third-hand info. Jay used to contribute regularly on CPG (which I should say was a pretty awesome time to be participating in the UG section of CPG) and I've shared my notes and conversations on these boards and CPG in the past decade. A lot of what I'm reading sounds like a reiteration of those info shares.

 

The bigger myth of the whole exchange that Gary shared (btw - thanks for sharing it Gary) is that someone stashed away copies of the Plymell Zap. In my opinion, based on research and many, many conversations with prominent people who were involved in the creation and dissemination of these pop cultural artifacts, is that the UG scene loves a good yarn, and that's all it is.

 

You don't discuss Donahue's notes on the amount of copies sold though, and Donahue was there also. I believe Donahue was in charge of selling most of them, or at least keeping the records of the sales (he told me he felt the records were pretty accurate). Plymell took off to the east coast soon after printing the 1st print and admitted to me he didn't really recall too much of the details from back then as a lot of drugs were used back then by most of the group. I know there is one collector out there who has the original sales invoices and knows for sure.

 

I believe that the low amount many quote might be to make rarer an item that is already highly valued, but the value is so high anyways I don't understand why it's felt to continue doing so with evidence of the contrary. But that's just my opinion.

 

[comicwiz]

Nice, the controversy continues on Zap Comix #1 though. I talked to Donahue before he passed away, and saw a picture of this distribution list of the 1st print of Zap #1. The print was about 3,500 with about 500 being burned in the Mowry fire. I've talked to Plymell also, he states much less like 1,000, but doesn't recall much of those days. I'd rather believe the pretty complete Donahue invoices though... Also, you don't see Bijou Funnies #1 (1st prints) graded because CGC won't slab them due to the cover overhang issue, unless that's changed.

 

Not a chance.

 

The number is probably somewhere between 600 (Pam's number revealed to me in one email exchange) and 1500 which is Charlie's number. I was in regular conversation with both Plymell and Donahue, and the one thing Don would do graciously is defer to Charlie's opinion on the subject. Here is a mirrored essay Charle's wrote, and which I luckily mirrored before his server disappeared with much of the work he transferred digitally being lost.

 

As for Jay's last paragraph, my hunch is he's passing along second and third-hand info. Jay used to contribute regularly on CPG (which I should say was a pretty awesome time to be participating in the UG section of CPG) and I've shared my notes and conversations on these boards and CPG in the past decade. A lot of what I'm reading sounds like a reiteration of those info shares.

 

The bigger myth of the whole exchange that Gary shared (btw - thanks for sharing it Gary) is that someone stashed away copies of the Plymell Zap. In my opinion, based on research and many, many conversations with prominent people who were involved in the creation and dissemination of these pop cultural artifacts, is that the UG scene loves a good yarn, and that's all it is.

 

You don't discuss Donahue's notes on the amount of copies sold though, and Donahue was there also.

 

Donahue needed Plymell, not the other way around. When the second print run was handed over to Donahue, that's the time where tracking of attrition rate began to take place. Not prior.

 

Like I said, I'm going by conversations with both, and I find it odd that you would make a remark that Charles memory would not be as sharp as the guy loves talking about his involvement and is able to recall his memories with depth and context. Not like some random factoid as you and I are trying to hash out for arguments sake.

 

Bottom line: the numbers quoted, both by Jay Kennedy and Don are way off. For Jay to have recorded 5K, he would have done so from the same invoices you claim are the record of greatest importance. How do you account for an attrition rate of 1500 between Jay's number and Donahues? If the numbers changed that drastically from documented information and removed from the trenches of actual printing/assembly, then I'm far readier to listen to the people who were actually on the line, hand-cranking the Multilith (Charles) and assembling the comic (Pam, et al.) than what a piece of paper states.

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

And the controversy continues... Here's a section of an essay I wrote a few years ago on the subject, it contains pretty accurate sales figures. As for Plymell, that's what he relayed to me on his recollection of those events. As for your theory on the person who put away the stash of those 1st print Zap's, my research names that possible person...

The sales numbers are for dates of Feb. through April 1968, so it doesn't apply to the 2nd printing you stated as the 2nd print was, I believe, in or around June of 1968. I don't know if Jay had access to these records as you state. They were sold in 2006, so they may have been lost or stored until then?

 

"Probably the biggest fact still unanswered pertains to the print run of the first printing of the first issue of Zap Comix. Can this disputed fact finally be put to rest to relieve the frustrations of collectors? Well Don kept the original sales records for that first printing of Zap Comix #1 that was released upon the unsuspecting world on the 25th of February 1968 in San Francisco, California.

 

 

These records show that Robert and a “very pregnant” Dana Crumb selling Zap Comix #1 out of a baby-carriage personally released 22 copies that initial day in the famous San Francisco neighborhood of Haight-Ashbury (the Haight). Don sold 12 copies with Mimi, who sold 48, all for the retail cover price of 25 cents (the easiest way to identify a 1st print of #1 as it was the only one with a 25 cent cover price). That means 82 copies where sold that day on Haight Street by these four pioneers. Don states that the wholesale price of that first issue varied, but was about 10 cents, and the records show that Bob Rita of Third World Distribution on Haight Street paid $155, therefore he received about 1,550 copies to resell. If approx. $40 of sales were at the retail price of 25 cents (160) and the remainder of $333 at approx. 10 cents wholesale price (3,330) plus a probable few (or more) copies probably kept by Charles and Don, means about a total of 3,500 copies were produced. Though Charles Plymell’s wife Pam, who was there stapling these issues together, insists it was about 800, and Charles has written “…my guess is around 1,500 copies” (Zap’s first Printer on Robert Crumb: Curled in Character by Charles Plymell) due to a large number being improperly printed and unusable of “what was supposed to be 5,000 copies”. Which leads to the question: Could there actually have been 2 undocumented first printings? Of the approx. 3,500 copies produced, 500 copies that Don had sold to Bob Hill on 12 April 1968 for wholesale price of $50, and which Don was storing at his Mowry’s Opera House loft, burned up in a fire in 1969 that also destroyed the original artwork for Comics #1 by Rory Hayes that Don was printing at the time. (The Mowry’s Opera House building subsequently burned down the following year, explaining the confusion as to some citing, including Donahue himself in Kennedy’s “Guide”, the year 1970. But Fiene incorrectly states Spring 1968 on p. 152 of his R. Crumb Checklist.) Total profit from the sale of approx. 3,500 copies of Zap Comix #1 (1st print) was a “staggering” $25.32, of which Robert’s royalties were half of that. This means that there were approx. 3,000 copies of Zap Comix #1 (1st “Plymell” print) released onto the streets, this is the same amount stated in 1974 by Rosenkranz in his book Artsy Fartsy Funnies (p. 32). According to Don this is the most accurate account of the number of Zap Comix #1 (1st print) to be released. It has been written that after the first printing sold out, Robert asked someone who had purchased 50 copies if he would sell some of them back to him (same William Cole from Head Comix?). The buyer reportedly wouldn’t, so Robert and Dana didn’t keep any of the initial printing at the time, but then the second print came soon after. Fogel’s Underground Price Guide has a current value of up to $8,000 in NM 9.4 condition for the first print of #1, with a Highest Realized Price (HRP) of $12,000. You can find ComicWiz’s CGC graded 9.4 copy on his website (www.comicwiz.com) available for $30,000.

 

The author that was there from the beginning, Patrick Rosenkranz writes on the 29th of August 2007 via e-mail “I remember in spring 1972 Donahue showed me a box full of Plymell Zaps which he was selling for $10 apiece. I didn't have ten bucks so I didn't buy any. I also remember that all the Zap art at the 1969 Phoenix Gallery show was going for $25 a page. Crumb, Shelton, Wilson, etc. Wish I'd had 25 bucks.” Patrick was also there in the Haight dirstrict during 1968, stopping by the Psychedelic Shop owned by the Thelin brothers (Ron and Jay). “I arrived in The Haight around the same time Wilson did in February 1968 and the Psychedelic Shop was still there. I went in it often. I don't remember seeing Crumb selling comic books out of his baby buggy, but there was a complete circus in the streets in those days…”

 

In regards to the different shades of blue seen on the first prints of Zap Comix #1, Jay Lynch writes “The dark blue and light blue were from the same printing. It was a small press...and they had to add new ink midway through the press run...but his two cans of blue ink didn't match each other...one was lighter than the other...so the early ones have a real dark blue ink...and the later ones have a lighter blue ink...and in the middle, where the two inks mixed...it is a middle range blue.”

 

Don states that what has been written by another writer regarding Charles Plymell teaching Robert Crumb how to color offset is false. Robert had been doing that exact job (as well as drawing) while working at the American Greeting Card Company years earlier and therefore wouldn’t need to be taught that. (reference? Monty Bushong?)

 

The name on the back cover of Zap Comix #1 changes to Don Donahue on the second printing. This results from Don purchasing the Multilith printing press off Plymell after that first print, and took over printing the second print of 5,000 copies alone in June 1968. That second print had been “…paid for in advance by legendary Berkeley bookseller Moe Moscowitz on behalf of his friend Don Shenker, proprietor of the Print Mint.”. – D. Donahue from Blab! #3 (1988) (p. 104)."

 

And no, I don't think there was a undocumented 2nd print, I was just putting up a possibility to the discrepancy...

 

Here's a picture of Plymell at an event I met him at with a copy of his The Last Times, I gave to him my other copy which he sold just before going on this tour.

 

[comicwiz]

 

The archive auctioned at Heritage was certainly an interesting footnote to the history, but it is far from being able to retell the story completely. There are too many inconsistencies of accounts (mainly with what was sold to whom, for how much, etc.), and what has been iterated in conversations over the years. There is also not nearly enough information which explains how much was lost, and how much unused material from the first print run was purposed for the second printing. This could have been an (unintentional or deliberate) accounting lapse, but it happens to be the most important piece to help explain the gaps in print numbers.

 

[50 Cent #II (1st)]

Thanks for posting the pic., seems to verify my account more than yours that this was for the 2nd print.

"When the second print run was handed over to Donahue, that's the time where tracking of attrition rate began to take place. Not prior."

[comicwiz]

Look Guy, I know you're passionate when it comes to UG's. But you have a tendency to co-opt information and turn it into your own. The best example of this was when you thought you'd put together groundbreaking research on first printing Zap 2's, when you were simply repackaging something already known for many years. I don't begrudge the action because at the root of it is a passion and motivation to raise awareness (which on the awareness side of things, it's something we share), but I don't particularly care for the insistence that you're version of things has to be superior to what others already have known and/or have formed their own opinions on. I'd sooner duck from such discussion because inevitably, the differences of opinion really can't progress into anything more than a contest.