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Ebay - ok. I'm shocked. What do I do?

Started by 400yrs,

115 posts in this topic

Ryan.

Ryan.

Posted
Posted
So is that karl122344 the buyer's eBay username so we can all block him?

 

This story is one reason I am reluctant to use the numerical grades when grading a raw book on eBay. You wouldn't want to give someone ammunition to become a problem, and some buyers now look for any loophole (or even just make mess up) to get a refund or outright steal an item through extortion like this.

 

There are buyers who are new to the hobby out there who are unfamiliar with the old-school grades, so you may have to use both.

 

True. Or you could just go the route that so many eBay sellers take, the "I don't know how to grade books so I'll just give you a blurry photo and you can grade it yourself" option. Those auctions always seem to generate unreasonably good prices (though many are probably shilled), much better than my large clear photos, meticulous descriptions, and return policy can typically match.

 

After being burned enough times by buyers such as the one in the original post, I've stopped assigning grades to my book auctions altogether. Instead I provide clear pics and try to describe any flaws. I also encourage bidders to email any questions and I try to answer them as best as I can.

 

I once sold a Chew 1 sketch variant that was pretty flawless except for some minor spine creasing. I called it a VF-. The buyer got it and wrote an angry email saying that I ripped him off and that the book was clearly a Poor. Poor! I had him send it back for a refund. It's not worth the hassle trying to explain what a Poor grade entails to a buyer unfamiliar with the accepted standards.

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bane

bane

Posted
Posted
So is that karl122344 the buyer's eBay username so we can all block him?

 

This story is one reason I am reluctant to use the numerical grades when grading a raw book on eBay. You wouldn't want to give someone ammunition to become a problem, and some buyers now look for any loophole (or even just make mess up) to get a refund or outright steal an item through extortion like this.

 

There are buyers who are new to the hobby out there who are unfamiliar with the old-school grades, so you may have to use both.

 

I usually list my books on eBay like this: "Batman #XXX (1992) VFN+ (8.5)". Even then I sold a Captain Marvel #1 GD/VG (3.0) and the guy come back to me and said "not as described, this had creases and the book is generally worn!"

 

I said, "I know its consistent with the grade of GD/VG (3.0)" he said "Not everyone would know what that means!" so there you can't win even with both listed, although thats the first complaint I've had in 900.

 

The numerical scale should make it clear what type of condition of the book your getting though??

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mysterio

mysterio

Posted
Posted
So is that karl122344 the buyer's eBay username so we can all block him?

 

This story is one reason I am reluctant to use the numerical grades when grading a raw book on eBay. You wouldn't want to give someone ammunition to become a problem, and some buyers now look for any loophole (or even just make mess up) to get a refund or outright steal an item through extortion like this.

 

There are buyers who are new to the hobby out there who are unfamiliar with the old-school grades, so you may have to use both.

 

I usually list my books on eBay like this: "Batman #XXX (1992) VFN+ (8.5)". Even then I sold a Captain Marvel #1 GD/VG (3.0) and the guy come back to me and said "not as described, this had creases and the book is generally worn!"

 

I said, "I know its consistent with the grade of GD/VG (3.0)" he said "Not everyone would know what that means!" so there you can't win even with both listed, although thats the first complaint I've had in 900.

 

The numerical scale should make it clear what type of condition of the book your getting though??

 

Plenty of old school collectors don't know what the numerical scale means. Most of my friends who are long-time collectors but late (or non) adopters of CGC aren't familiar/comfortable with that scale yet.

 

I supposed if you don't mind all the extra verbiage in a listing you could always list a grade definition at the bottom of the listing along with the grade and numerical equivalent. That way someone would expect a GD/VG (3.0) to have creases, or at least they wouldn't be able to argue with a straight face that they weren't expecting them. (Though I imagine any scan would show the creasing and general wear.)

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
After being burned enough times by buyers such as the one in the original post, I've stopped assigning grades to my book auctions altogether. Instead I provide clear pics and try to describe any flaws. I also encourage bidders to email any questions and I try to answer them as best as I can.

 

I actually love it when sellers do this, because a lot of times, bidding doesn't get stupidly insane with pinhead bidders. I've scored some unbelievably sweet books from sellers who just do scans, but no grade - at a great price. At first, I was a little suspicious of the listings - but the ones with lots of pics, I'm pretty comfortable with.

 

There has been only one time where I got a book that wasn't what was advertised.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
After being burned enough times by buyers such as the one in the original post, I've stopped assigning grades to my book auctions altogether. Instead I provide clear pics and try to describe any flaws. I also encourage bidders to email any questions and I try to answer them as best as I can.

 

I actually love it when sellers do this, because a lot of times, bidding doesn't get stupidly insane with pinhead bidders. I've scored some unbelievably sweet books from sellers who just do scans, but no grade - at a great price. At first, I was a little suspicious of the listings - but the ones with lots of pics, I'm pretty comfortable with.

 

There has been only one time where I got a book that wasn't what was advertised.

 

They probably had hooters in the picture and you went insane.

 

 

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
After being burned enough times by buyers such as the one in the original post, I've stopped assigning grades to my book auctions altogether. Instead I provide clear pics and try to describe any flaws. I also encourage bidders to email any questions and I try to answer them as best as I can.

 

I actually love it when sellers do this, because a lot of times, bidding doesn't get stupidly insane with pinhead bidders. I've scored some unbelievably sweet books from sellers who just do scans, but no grade - at a great price. At first, I was a little suspicious of the listings - but the ones with lots of pics, I'm pretty comfortable with.

 

There has been only one time where I got a book that wasn't what was advertised.

 

I think at some point you develop a sixth sense for the good and bad sellers out there, just by the nature of the description. The unfortunate thing for sellers is that they don't get to screen bidders, so you end up with descriptions that have nearly 1000 words of explanation and disclaimer.

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gcstomp

gcstomp

Posted
Posted

Tough to wake up to that silliness. Sounds like you may end up with a neg no matter what, but do your best to send a simple reply (that he cant twist into an argument).

 

Something like "I am sorry you are not happy with purchase. If you would like, please return for a full refund. Thanks for your patience." Then refund if he returns books, which he probably wont. Definitely block him, my block bidder list is pretty serious at this point. Dont do the partial refund game, lots of shady buyers are trying to get partials on every purchase.

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Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

Posted
Posted
After being burned enough times by buyers such as the one in the original post, I've stopped assigning grades to my book auctions altogether. Instead I provide clear pics and try to describe any flaws. I also encourage bidders to email any questions and I try to answer them as best as I can.

 

I actually love it when sellers do this, because a lot of times, bidding doesn't get stupidly insane with pinhead bidders. I've scored some unbelievably sweet books from sellers who just do scans, but no grade - at a great price. At first, I was a little suspicious of the listings - but the ones with lots of pics, I'm pretty comfortable with.

 

There has been only one time where I got a book that wasn't what was advertised.

+1 I have scored some amazing deals like this. ASM 12 in F for $12.00, Batman 158 in VF+ for $10.00. Sometimes these auctions slip through.
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ComicDoc

ComicDoc

Posted
Posted

I would like to play the devil's advocate for a minute.

 

I am more of a buyer than a seller and from my vantage point the numeric grading system is TOO arbitrary to be placed on a raw book. I also do not like when a seller puts a numeric grade on a comic without stating that it is not a CGC/PGX graded book. Yes I completely understand the concept of equivalence ( VG = 4.0) but I view the number grades as more appropriate to a sealed book not a raw book (old school view).

 

When I see a number grade assigned to a book I do make the assumption that it is a third party graded book. WHY? Because the advent of the numeric grading really caught on with the grading companies. Yes we did have the point (100) system previously but really it was not used to the extent that we currently use the 10 point system. And yes I know that we have charts (and now OS includes it in his book) that tell you what the letters equates to in numbers but the problem is there are no published standards on what CGC or PGX use as their standards so there really is not equivalence. So when someone makes the leap of faith that the numeric grade you assign is the same as CGC or PGX grade there is no way to validate this assertion or defend your grade.

 

I disagree with the practice by individuals of assigning what equates to a proprietary numeric grade to a raw book. To me this is an subtle attempt to over sell their books, as the underlying implication is: "this book is the same as a CGC graded book sans the plastic cover!" This occurs especially on these boards which IMHO is because people think they know what CGC will grade the book as due to past experience, this is no better than anecdotal experience which is not reliable. Therefore without having a consensus on what the numeric grading is and to do this we need to know CGC and PGX standards, then the assignment of numeric grades should be left to the 3rd party companies.

 

Furthermore remember that the grades assigned by these companies are just their opinions and without publishing their standards, their grading process and how consistently they apply their standards is not able to be substantiated by an external entity.

 

Whereas we all can look at a raw book and compare it to the Overstreet grading guide as a standard (it needs work and hopefully we will get another book soon that takes grading to the next level -akin to coins) and reference the book. Therefore we can all agree that based on the books defects and consistent with Overstreet's recommendation the is graded at a certain grade. This is a more acceptable method to as it is based on an accepted authority in field.

 

Or (and my preferred why of grading) you state clearly, as some seller's do, that these are the defects with this book and let the buyer assign the grade. If you must assign a grade it should not be a numeric grade but rather the letter grade that would correspond with the defects noted. In this way the seller does grade but does so in the spirit of complete disclosure.

 

For Example here is a book I recently purchased:

 

ebay

 

Seller info tomorrowstreasures ( 3874)

 

FAMOUS FUNNIES #125[1944]VINTAGE GOLD

FEATURING: HIGH GRADE.

BOOK DESCRIPTION: Complete, original, sound copy.

COVER DESCRIPTION: Attached, tight, clean, bright, sharp.

INTERIOR PAGE DESCRIPTION: supple, strong.

INTERIOR PAGE COLOR: white.

CONSERVATION: none.

REPAIR: none.

RESTORATION: None.

GRADE: VERY FINE/NEAR MINT

 

Until the time when we as a collecting community (including CGC and PGX) set a standard of grading that everyone uses then I think full disclosure (as above) is the only way to go.

 

I also understand that this buyer may just be a jerk!

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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bane

bane

Posted
Posted

I used to put the Overstreet grade by itself then give a full description of all the faults, but I have 5,000 books to sell and it became to long winded. I went through several variations before settling on using the overstreet grade with its numerical equivalent. A full scan of the book and I list any major fault with the book.

 

I stipulate to contact me if someone wants to know the full rundown of faults of the book and I tend to undergrade anyway and charge half of guide value on top of that, so the buyer always wins in my eyes.

 

But saying that I've been the buyer as well, I remember a Walking Dead #3 I bought a while ago which was supposedly NM but was more like VFN because of a large dent on the back cover which wasn't disclosed.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted

 

When I see a number grade assigned to a book I do make the assumption that it is a third party graded book. WHY? Because the advent of the numeric grading really caught on with the grading companies. Yes we did have the point (100) system previously but really it was not used to the extent that we currently use the 10 point system. And yes I know that we have charts (and now OS includes it in his book) that tell you what the letters equates to in numbers but the problem is there are no published standards on what CGC or PGX use as their standards so there really is not equivalence. So when someone makes the leap of faith that the numeric grade you assign is the same as CGC or PGX grade there is no way to validate this assertion or defend your grade.

 

 

 

 

I don't believe this is entirely accurate. As a show dealer from the mid 80's to the mid 90's, well before CGC, I can tell you that people were using the 100 point system, especially on better books where fractions matter far more a good 10 years before CGC.

 

I specifically remember a run of Showcases I attained out of an original owner collection that I sold as 9.6's and 9.8's in the early 90's.

 

I don't think your personal experience is in line with what everyone may have experienced.

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

Numerical grades have become as accepted as letter grades on raw books, though I usually use both or just letter grades when selling raw on ebay. At this point in the game, it's up to buyers to educate themselves if they are confused. Think about the term "Good" - if one were unfamiliar with comic grading terminology, they might be surprised at the ragged looking books that are given this positive sounding description, but rarely do sellers feel the need to define the grade.

 

I'm not expecting any strict standards to be accepted for numerical grades any more than with letter grades. Few people religiously adhere to the Overstreet grading guide when assigning grades to raw books, and even if CGC ( the only 3rd party grader worth considering) published their standards, there is always enough wiggle room for debate. Whether one's grading is considered loose, tight, dead on or completely off the mark has nothing to do with what scale one uses, but rather the informed opinion of the collecting community at large. two parties may legitimately disagree on the exact grade a book should receive, but can usually concur on a pretty tight range.

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