The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, N e r V said: I would never bid on one without A) photos of the key areas B) background info. Good advice. They do have photos of the key areas, but the background info may be a different story. The one thing they didn't mention was the even trimming on the book, but it looks like that's a match as well. So it's passed all the Overstreet criteria for a first print... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 The blue staple copy is the counterfeit! It’s clearly the one James Warren is talking about! There is no second printing! James Warren clearly talks about the blue staple copy and it’s identifying marks as the counterfeit! I was around as a kid in the 1970’s when that Warren counterfeit ad appeared in their magazines and I’ve known it since then including when I purchased my first blue staple copy in the 1980’s! Overstreet has been a great source of information but in this case it’s been a great source of misinformation. Dealers and collectors have been confused by this listing and lack of ever seeing copies due to its rarity has been made it worse since most lack experience with the book. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: Good advice. They do have photos of the key areas, but the background info may be a different story. The one thing they didn't mention was the even trimming on the book, but it looks like that's a match as well. So it's passed all the Overstreet criteria for a first print... Originals are clean. The counterfeit is uneven. Compare the photos below. 3 pictures. 1 original, 2 counterfeit copies. Can you spot the difference? The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 If you tried to trim a counterfeit the size wouldn’t be correct either. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, N e r V said: The blue staple copy is the counterfeit! It’s clearly the one James Warren is talking about! There is no second printing! James Warren clearly talks about the blue staple copy and it’s identifying marks as the counterfeit! I was around as a kid in the 1970’s when that Warren counterfeit ad appeared in their magazines and I’ve known it since then including when I purchased my first blue staple copy in the 1980’s! Overstreet has been a great source of information but in this case it’s been a great source of misinformation. Dealers and collectors have been confused by this listing and lack of ever seeing copies due to its rarity has been made it worse since most lack experience with the book. 2 minutes ago, N e r V said: Originals are clean. The counterfeit is uneven. Compare the photos below. 3 pictures. 1 original, 2 counterfeit copies. Can you spot the difference? I understand that the blue staple copy is the counterfeit; I've seen numerous copies of that one. Quite easy to tell the difference. But thanks for showing the different versions all in the same place---very educational. Sorry to interrupt your night off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, N e r V said: If you tried to trim a counterfeit the size wouldn’t be correct either. Apparently that's one of the things Overstreet was right about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Warning now to buyers. Blue staple copies have market value. Not as much as originals but they have their place in Warren history and collecting. They are not cheap and although not as rare as a original they aren’t falling out of the trees either. However they are not “second printings” or originals if someone lists them as such. As soon as the blue staple copy became known as the counterfeit some people took to replacing their staples. They’ve tried trimming them. Hell some just have rusty staples so you can’t tell. What’s a buyer to do? First, measure the book to see if it’s been trimmed then take a peak inside. Overstreet at least got the identifying part right in their listing. You can tell. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: I understand that the blue staple copy is the counterfeit; I've seen numerous copies of that one. Quite easy to tell the difference. But thanks for showing the different versions all in the same place---very educational. Sorry to interrupt your night off... Done with pizza. Bull was kind of boring tonight so that’s OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Photo of what the blue staples look like. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, N e r V said: Done with pizza. Bull was kind of boring tonight so that’s OK. Just for the record, I'm not interested in buying the original or the counterfeit. I just enjoy discussing things like this so that uninformed buyers here on the boards can make better decisions if they decide to purchase a copy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 So the story goes much like Dave Sim suspected who counterfeited Cerebus #1 so did Mr. James Warren. What makes the blue staple counterfeit interesting is that some of the reproduction was better than the original unlike most counterfeit copies which are inferior. That just adds to the mystery. Was it someone at Warren? Someone who had access to the art or stats to make such a nicely reproduced counterfeit? James isn’t saying... The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 minute ago, N e r V said: So the story goes much like Dave Sim suspected who counterfeited Cerebus #1 so did Mr. James Warren. What makes the blue staple counterfeit interesting is that some of the reproduction was better than the original unlike most counterfeit copies which are inferior. That just adds to the mystery. Was it someone at Warren? Someone who had access to the art or stats to make such a nicely reproduced counterfeit? James isn’t saying... Maybe it was Stan Lee... N e r V 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 My final thought is this. There are only two known versions I’ve ever seen. The original and the blue staple counterfeit. Both are easily enough identified from each other using the marks noted. If someone has ever reproduced another killer counterfeit no one I have found has ever seen one and it’s flown under the collectors radar. They also must be the dumbest counterfeiters ever because original Eerie #1’s show up so seldom if someone else did another counterfeit it must exist in ultra tiny numbers. Any counterfeits that have hit the market exist in noticeable numbers (like the blue staple copy or Cerebus #1). The blue staple copies show up as expected given their likely numbers. If Heidi Saha exists in less than 100 copies and Eerie #1 in roughly half that the market seems to indicate both show up for sale as often as you’d expect. Pretty sure near perfect counterfeits would tip that number... The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Heritage has been offline all day so I can’t tell you how many times they’ve sold originals and counterfeits but here’s their response on how they determine what’s, what... Dear Brett, Thank you for contacting Heritage Auctions. Yes, a combination of Overstreet guidelines, provenance, and consensus of our experts. Let me know if I can help with anything else! Sincerely, Matt Griffin | Consignment Director HERITAGE AUCTIONS Dallas: 214-409-1694 | Chicago: 312-260-7230| 877-HERITAGE (437-4824) ext. 1694 | Fax: 214.409.26943500 Maple Ave. Dallas, Texas 75219-3941mattg@ha.com| www.HA.com The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Dowling Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, N e r V said: Photo of what the blue staples look like. I’ve seen actually blue striped staples on an Eerie 1 that look nothing like those. The staples were actually bright with clearly defined light blue stripes on them. Also, there is an ad from Warren offering Eerie 1 for sale with “special staples and special paper”. Many have assumed this was actually Eerie 2 and Jim Warren was using hyperbole to sell. But maybe not. That would certainly sound like a 2nd printing. Is it really so impossible to think that a third (or even 4th) option may exist? Having seen this photo, I have personally seen at least 3 different types. Overstreet may not be as incorrect as you claim. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Well you are correct that the blue strip varies somewhat on the staples. Not sure if it can rub off either and I’m not going to try to find out. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Dowling Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 1/17/2015 at 9:09 PM, Moondog said: Richard, I bought a copy off Heritage in 2007. It has all the "original, first printing" elements. I still have it. I've seen tons of these things over the years and their are originals, good counterfeits and bad counterfeits. The only copies I have great confidence in identifying are the bad counterfeits... This is from another thread from a few years ago in which Richard Evans asked for clarification on identifying originals. Gary (Moondog) is one of the only people I would consider an authority on this subject. My word of caution to anyone reading this is the following: the problem with certainty about Eerie 1 is that there can be no certainty. Archie Goodwin isn’t around anymore, Jim Warren isn’t talking, so everything else is conjecture based upon very limited information. Anyone purchasing a copy should know this and buy at their own risk. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said: This is from another thread from a few years ago in which Richard Evans asked for clarification on identifying originals. Gary (Moondog) is one of the only people I would consider an authority on this subject. My word of caution to anyone reading this is the following: the problem with certainty about Eerie 1 is that there can be no certainty. Archie Goodwin isn’t around anymore, Jim Warren isn’t talking, so everything else is conjecture based upon very limited information. Anyone purchasing a copy should know this and buy at their own risk. Damn, I remember that too. I asked Richard a ways back about that copy of Eerie #1 at SDCC. I was interested in it but I think it was no longer in play for him to get. Forgot the reason now. I honestly don’t think many on the boards here are interested in buying one (maybe I’m wrong) but I think everyone agrees with having caution if you are. Me I’m going to see if I can find out a little bit more about that ComicLink copy now that the Lions Den has introduced that thought... The Lions Den and Randall Dowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Randall Dowling said: I’ve seen actually blue striped staples on an Eerie 1 that look nothing like those. The staples were actually bright with clearly defined light blue stripes on them. Also, there is an ad from Warren offering Eerie 1 for sale with “special staples and special paper”. Many have assumed this was actually Eerie 2 and Jim Warren was using hyperbole to sell. But maybe not. That would certainly sound like a 2nd printing. Is it really so impossible to think that a third (or even 4th) option may exist? Having seen this photo, I have personally seen at least 3 different types. Overstreet may not be as incorrect as you claim. One of the copies I've seen had the same kind of staples...very different from the copy shown above... Randall Dowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Here's my copies staples. My question though. Why would someone use these type of staples to counterfeit a book, when surely there are staples without the blue stripe. I am of the premise that an employee of Warren reprinted the books from within the Warren printing room. They are not xeroxed, they are actually quite heavy black ink that shines when put to the light. Randall Dowling and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
