As a collector, what does this situation make you think of the market?

[Walls]

So last year, I purchased a copy of X-Men 135 in 9.4 white pages on eBay for $75. This was a few months after I got back into the hobby as a collector and before Jimbo responded to one of my posts telling me about a GPA (thank you so much, Jimbo). I was still trying to figure out how to buy books at reasonable prices.

 

Earlier this year a number of items came up that I wanted and I decided that I wanted a better grade copy of X-Men 135. Now having access to GPA, I went on the site, reviewed the documented sales, looked at the 12 month average and posted the book on eBay and priced it a little lower than the gpa average at $45. I wanted it to move. I lost $30 bucks on the book plus shipping but, you know, caveat emptor and all that. Here's the eBay listing:

 

My xmen 135 sale

 

The book sold back in early January. So, I have some rules set up in eBay and one of them is to let me know when late bronze/early copper x-men come up for sale. So basically I get an email on any x-men books between 100 and 142. Yesterday, I was reviewing my email and I noticed this item for sale:

 

New xmen 135 sale

 

I thought wow, that looks just like the one I had. I zoomed in on the picture, got the cert number and reviewed my records and sure enough, it's the same book. They're asking over 100% more than what I let the book go for in January. I reviewed GPA again and I guess this new prices is based on a single documented sale in Feb for 90 but still higher than that single sale. I'm hugely curious about the details of that sale. I'm not questioning that its valid but was it another uninformed buyer or some other similar situation?

 

Anyway, nothing truly unethical or wrong about what the buyer/seller is doing but, as a collector and buyer, it makes me much more skeptical and distrustful of the hobby and kind of leaves, at least IMHO, a bad impression. Plus, this is going to make it more expensive to pick up a higher graded 135. Possibly, to the point where I may not pick up another.

 

Finally, the buyer picked up two well priced items and never left me positive feed back after receiving the items.

 

[VintageComics]

So the buyer of your #135 is trying to buy lower and sell at a higher ask.

 

Why would that make you distrustful?

 

Isn't this how every free market operates?

 

 

 

 

[Walls]

That is true, but even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month.

 

And Xmen 135 is not even in the same category as google or apple.

 

Plus, what's the justification for the price increase? Some buyer didn't know what the price should be? That's certainly not the average price.

[Hamlet]

I don't think that an overpriced book on Ebay is going to affect the market for X-men 135. Most of the buy it nows on Ebay are overpriced.

 

That book comes up for sale regularly in no reserve auctions. You'll be able to get it at a fair market price as long as you are patient and don't chase an individual book. People sell it pretty regularly on the boards as well.

 

Look at GPA, and be willing to pay towards the top end of it for a nicely centered copy with White pages and towards the bottome for more fugly copies with lower page quality. You'll get a copy at a rational price fairly quickly.

 

What grade/PQ and price point are you targeting?

 

[jessebrook1]

Buy low, sell high.

 

 

[gcstomp]

even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month

 

Of course not, those are trillions of dollars of assets traded, I would think those are very nearly impossible for them to double in a month.

 

A comic that a buyer bought at $45 to try to flip at $90 is very much a small deal, standard practice for lots of buyers. Nothing unusual at all. Also nothing unusual in having the overpriced book sit for months unsold at the new higher price.

[Walls]

Buy low, sell high.

 

 

Right, but as a collector the intense speculation and aggressive drive to increase prices is kind of a turn off. I wonder if other collector's think the same? I already have a 401k with stocks in it. I'd really like not to have to worry about that in the hobby.

[Junkdrawer]

If you figure what he paid you, what he owns the book for $56.95 and what he is "asking" (he hasnt got it yet) His price is 97.95 with shipping. His ebay and paypal fees will be around $12 and he will need to ship it too. He will be profiting around $18

[Walls]

I don't think that an overpriced book on Ebay is going to affect the market for X-men 135. Most of the buy it nows on Ebay are overpriced.

 

That book comes up for sale regularly in no reserve auctions. You'll be able to get it at a fair market price as long as you are patient and don't chase an individual book. People sell it pretty regularly on the boards as well.

 

Look at GPA, and be willing to pay towards the top end of it for a nicely centered copy with White pages and towards the bottome for more fugly copies with lower page quality. You'll get a copy at a rational price fairly quickly.

 

What grade/PQ and price point are you targeting?

 

No, I totally get that. I was just making some observations about the market.

[Walls]

even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month

 

Of course not, those are trillions of dollars of assets traded, I would think those are very nearly impossible for them to double in a month.

 

A comic that a buyer bought at $45 to try to flip at $90 is very much a small deal, standard practice for lots of buyers. Nothing unusual at all. Also nothing unusual in having the overpriced book sit for months unsold at the new higher price.

 

Sure and xmen 135 is not an asset that generates revenue either. It basically goes into my basement with my other books and takes up space. This is just a small, personal example. I'm sure it could be extrapolated to describe other transactions.

[VintageComics]

That is true, but even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month.

 

And Xmen 135 is not even in the same category as google or apple.

 

Plus, what's the justification for the price increase? Some buyer didn't know what the price should be? That's certainly not the average price.

 

But the price hasn't doubled in a month. That's just the ask.

 

Just like a stock, you're going to have fluctuations daily and you are going to have ask prices and actual sell prices. The actual sell prices determine the market value.

 

Plus, this is going to make it more expensive to pick up a higher graded 135. Possibly, to the point where I may not pick up another.

 

Buy low, sell high.

 

 

Right, but as a collector the intense speculation and aggressive drive to increase prices is kind of a turn off. I wonder if other collector's think the same? I already have a 401k with stocks in it. I'd really like not to have to worry about that in the hobby.

 

Thinking like this always makes me scratch my head. You mean it's going to cost you more to pick up a comic than you sold it?

 

We're out of the 1950's and 1960's now, right? Most people now realize that old comics have increased in value since their release on the newsstands decades ago.

 

Not only that, but many people want their comics to increase in value while they are holding them and have accepted that they are going to pay more for a book now than they were going to 30 years ago.

 

For example, you agreed to that increase when you paid $75 for a comic that cost $0.40 on the newsstand originally.

 

The only way for that to happen is for people to over time pay more than they previously paid for copies.

 

So you were willing to make a purchase at a massive increase in price (I don't even know how many 100's of % $0.40 to $75 is), sell at a loss and then complain that it's going to cost you more to replace it?

 

[nocutename]

I don't think the buyer is doubling his money on your book. You sold it for 45+12 ship. He consigned it to MCS and they are selling it for $80. MCS raises it prices on ebay to cover the fees. I am not sure if MCS charges the seller a fee now. http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?q=Uncanny+X-Men+135&pubid=&PubRng=

[Kevin76]

It's just the way the ball bounces. You can't sit there and beat yourself up cause the guy turned around and sold it for a higher price than you sold it for...What if the tables were turned? Would you still complain?

 

The GPA isn't carved in stone, they just report public auction sales and then it's up to a potential buyer to gauge on how much he/she is willing to pay for something based on market value weather it be higher or lower than the listed price and desire of said future purchase. If all you lost was $30, be glad it was only $30 and not $3,000 or $3 million or billion like alot of companies have lost/losing.

[seanfingh]

It's just the way the ball bounces. You can't sit there and beat yourself up cause the guy turned around and sold it for a higher price than you sold it for...What if the tables were turned? Would you still complain?

 

The GPA isn't carved in stone, they just report public auction sales and then it's up to a potential buyer to gauge on how much he/she is willing to pay for something based on market value weather it be higher or lower than the listed price and desire of said future purchase. If all you lost was $30, be glad it was only $30 and not $3,000 or $3 million or billion like alot of companies have lost/losing.

 

Most civil Kevin76 post EVER.

[VintageComics]

It's just the way the ball bounces. You can't sit there and beat yourself up cause the guy turned around and sold it for a higher price than you sold it for...What if the tables were turned? Would you still complain?

 

The GPA isn't carved in stone, they just report public auction sales and then it's up to a potential buyer to gauge on how much he/she is willing to pay for something based on market value weather it be higher or lower than the listed price and desire of said future purchase. If all you lost was $30, be glad it was only $30 and not $3,000 or $3 million or billion like alot of companies have lost/losing.

 

Most civil Kevin76 post EVER.

 

I was freaking going to say the same thing.

 

I had to reread it and double check who the poster was just to make sure.

 

Have we finally found world peace?

 

[Hamlet]

Yes, it can be strange. If you follow the auction houses and E-bay, you'll regularly see books that end up selling very low one month and then end up selling much higher a few months later, and vice-versa.

 

The market for comics can be influenced dramatically by one extra person looking for a book. If you have two people who really want a book, the auction price can get driven up quite a bit. If that second person isn't there next time the book comes up, it can end up selling for a lot less.

 

No, I totally get that. I was just making some observations about the market.

[seanfingh]

It's just the way the ball bounces. You can't sit there and beat yourself up cause the guy turned around and sold it for a higher price than you sold it for...What if the tables were turned? Would you still complain?

 

The GPA isn't carved in stone, they just report public auction sales and then it's up to a potential buyer to gauge on how much he/she is willing to pay for something based on market value weather it be higher or lower than the listed price and desire of said future purchase. If all you lost was $30, be glad it was only $30 and not $3,000 or $3 million or billion like alot of companies have lost/losing.

 

Most civil Kevin76 post EVER.

 

I was freaking going to say the same thing.

 

I had to reread it and double check who the poster was just to make sure.

 

Have we finally found world peace?

 

 

No. FU Hippie.

[Walls]

That is true, but even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month.

 

And Xmen 135 is not even in the same category as google or apple.

 

Plus, what's the justification for the price increase? Some buyer didn't know what the price should be? That's certainly not the average price.

 

But the price hasn't doubled in a month. That's just the ask.

 

Just like a stock, you're going to have fluctuations daily and you are going to have ask prices and actual sell prices. The actual sell prices determine the market value.

 

Plus, this is going to make it more expensive to pick up a higher graded 135. Possibly, to the point where I may not pick up another.

 

Buy low, sell high.

 

 

Right, but as a collector the intense speculation and aggressive drive to increase prices is kind of a turn off. I wonder if other collector's think the same? I already have a 401k with stocks in it. I'd really like not to have to worry about that in the hobby.

 

Thinking like this always makes me scratch my head. You mean it's going to cost you more to pick up a comic than you sold it?

 

We're out of the 1950's and 1960's now, right? Most people now realize that old comics have increased in value since their release on the newsstands decades ago.

 

Not only that, but many people want their comics to increase in value while they are holding them and have accepted that they are going to pay more for a book now than they were going to 30 years ago.

 

For example, you agreed to that increase when you paid $75 for a comic that cost $0.40 on the newsstand originally.

 

The only way for that to happen is for people to over time pay more than they previously paid for copies.

 

So you were willing to make a purchase at a massive increase in price (I don't even know how many 100's of % $0.40 to $75 is), sell at a loss and then complain that it's going to cost you more to replace it?

 

 

Sure, but if that book happens to sell, then what's the chances that other seller's will rush to start increasing their value. If enough books are offered for sale at this level then the perception is, that that's the new price level. I was reading a thread yesterday where a book sold at auction for 3k over the previous level. Most of the responses I read seemed to indicate that this was the new price level. Never mind that it may have only been 2 people that were interested in the book at that price and you may not run into that type of bidding situation again.

 

You might want to go back and read my post, I said I was interested in possibly upgrading in the future. And I fully believe if the 9.4's go up in price due to whatever reason the 9.6 would follow suit, no. I mean that's kind of just logic right?

 

Right and you must of missed what I said about the 75 sale. I bought because I was not aware of what other people were buying the item at. Would I pay 75 again? Not unless, that was about the average for recent sales. This seems to indicate to me that we're looking for people to sell to who don't know what the prices should be. And I get that, you're trying to make a profit, but what I'm saying is that as a semi-informed buyer this is somewhat predatory.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I'm not even sure where to begin with this thread, but I think Roy covered the majority of it.

 

Bottomline: its a fluid hobby....don't worry so much about the swings either way if you're just buying to enjoy and keep the book. If you look at GPA, especially for common Byrne X-Men books, you'll notice huge discrepencies in sales prices from 9.4-9.8 grades. Its common.

 

And BTW, and most experienced dealers/collectors will tell you, stuff like X-Men 135 are so common, with so many raw copies out there still yet to be certified (and unlikely to ever be considering there is no financial incentive to do it unless the book is super nice), that you can still find them and pay well less then Guide if you are patient.

 

 

[Walls]

I don't think the buyer is doubling his money on your book. You sold it for 45+12 ship. He consigned it to MCS and they are selling it for $80. MCS raises it prices on ebay to cover the fees. I am not sure if MCS charges the seller a fee now. http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?q=Uncanny+X-Men+135&pubid=&PubRng=

 

Right, but just as the seller doesn't really care about the buyer that doesn't matter to me as a collector. The seller is still asking ~90% over 12 month average.