As a collector, what does this situation make you think of the market?

[Walls]

but what I'm saying is that as a semi-informed buyer this is somewhat predatory.

 

 

Really? A seller asking what he wants for his own property is "somewhat predatory"?

 

Is he marketing the book to special education schools or to assisted living facilities for the elderly and infirm?

 

These aren't staple items needed for survival. He isn't raising the price of water, food and batteries in a disaster area. He's selling a comic book for more than he paid for it. The entire market of this hobby, hell of ALL hobbies, is built on the concept.

 

 

Your lips are saying "the seller is somewhat predatory" but your eyes are saying "I am totally butthurt."

 

So rather than asking a fair asking price it's OK to drill the buyer for as much as possible without the aforementioned reach around?

 

Thanks for clearing that up. (thumbs u

[comix4fun]

but what I'm saying is that as a semi-informed buyer this is somewhat predatory.

 

 

Really? A seller asking what he wants for his own property is "somewhat predatory"?

 

Is he marketing the book to special education schools or to assisted living facilities for the elderly and infirm?

 

These aren't staple items needed for survival. He isn't raising the price of water, food and batteries in a disaster area. He's selling a comic book for more than he paid for it. The entire market of this hobby, hell of ALL hobbies, is built on the concept.

 

 

Your lips are saying "the seller is somewhat predatory" but your eyes are saying "I am totally butthurt."

 

So rather than asking a fair asking price it's OK to drill the buyer for as much as possible without the aforementioned reach around?

 

Thanks for clearing that up. (thumbs u

 

 

Who determines what's "fair"?

 

You, who lost $45 on the book when you sold it?

 

GPA, that only has a small sliver of actual sales in their calculations?

 

OSPG that is out of date before the ink is dry?

 

Is there is mystical being that is the arbiter of all that is fair and unfair and will set prices accordingly?

 

He's not "drilling" anyone. You can choose to buy his book. You can choose not buy his book. You have all the choice in the world. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. The free market determines what an item is worth. Either the seller's price is validated or it is rejected by the market.

 

I amend my earlier post from "butthurt" to "massively butthurt".

[etanick]

Personally, I detest using the words "FAIR VALUE" when GPA is concerned.

 

Why?

 

is the transaction between 2 parties = THE MARKET.

 

even if there are more transactions, whatever happened that recorded by GPA is just a sampling.

 

Can you imagine how GPA would be if the transactions in this forum were/are recorded (not that it will ever happen)? a spiralling downward abyss because everyone wants or slabs are routinely sold 5 to 10% below GPA?

 

OSPG and GPA are really just guides, use them as they "intended" have been my approach.

 

Throw is the lack of info on PQ or wrapping and GPA is a problem for those that don't know how to research before buying.

 

At the end of the day, like anything else, good/smart shoppers that do their homeworks with some luck can find great deals (below GPA) and those that don't MIGHT overpay. It is life. It is free market.

[brendanb438]

One other point that I would like to make is that a slavish adherence to GPA leads to some, shall we say, interesting scenarios.

 

I have encountered, a number of times, people (on this Board especially) posting WTB for books. Responders will PM them about said books, only to find out that the purchaser's expectations are that they are going to be sold at the ridiculously low number established by the latest auction.

 

Personally, I am never going to sell a book that has $24-30 in hard costs for $15 just because one recently sold on Ebay for $15. I (and others I have commiserated with) have encountered real and pretty strong opinions about how those books should be "sold for market price" which is apparently deemed to be GPA or the latest Ebay bloodbath.

 

 

I understand that and that's not what I'm advocating. I'm thinking that if you have nine sales (data points) that are roughly $50 and two sales that are $70 and $90 why is the seller asking $94. Actually, that's a rhetorical question I know the seller has costs and is trying to make money but that's an investment issue on the seller's side.

 

Just like you're advocating for disregarding the low end of the spectrum I'm advocating for not only considering the top sale.

 

I think vintage summed it up pretty well in a previous post...

 

 

The seller can put an asking price of whatever he wants thanks to the free market we are in. Is this thread really all about a seller possibly making around $15 to $18 in profits by flipping a book? Hell this isn't even really worth his time and effort.

 

Sorry you bought the book, sold it for almost a 40% loss and are now butt hurt that someone may make some money off you selling it for a loss?

 

[shadroch]

Buy low, sell high.

 

 

 

Buy Sheep, sell Deer

[tth2]

I amend my earlier post from "butthurt" to "massively butthurt".

I would add "with some bizarre misplaced sense of entitlement".

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Your lips are saying "the seller is somewhat predatory" but your eyes are saying "I am totally butthurt."

 

Agreed. I may add this to my sig.

[Walls]

but what I'm saying is that as a semi-informed buyer this is somewhat predatory.

 

 

Really? A seller asking what he wants for his own property is "somewhat predatory"?

 

Is he marketing the book to special education schools or to assisted living facilities for the elderly and infirm?

 

These aren't staple items needed for survival. He isn't raising the price of water, food and batteries in a disaster area. He's selling a comic book for more than he paid for it. The entire market of this hobby, hell of ALL hobbies, is built on the concept.

 

 

Your lips are saying "the seller is somewhat predatory" but your eyes are saying "I am totally butthurt."

 

So rather than asking a fair asking price it's OK to drill the buyer for as much as possible without the aforementioned reach around?

 

Thanks for clearing that up. (thumbs u

 

 

Who determines what's "fair"?

 

You, who lost $45 on the book when you sold it?

 

GPA, that only has a small sliver of actual sales in their calculations?

 

OSPG that is out of date before the ink is dry?

 

Is there is mystical being that is the arbiter of all that is fair and unfair and will set prices accordingly?

 

He's not "drilling" anyone. You can choose to buy his book. You can choose not buy his book. You have all the choice in the world. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. The free market determines what an item is worth. Either the seller's price is validated or it is rejected by the market.

 

I amend my earlier post from "butthurt" to "massively butthurt".

 

I'm guessing that we're all at adult levels here.

 

So let me try to say this reasonably and I hope we can respond in kind. When I buy an item I try to do research on what the cost is/should be. I attempt to not buy stuff at a whim, although it's happened a couple of times.

 

Right now, I see GPA as the best guide for pricing because it gives a measurable almost real time idea of what people are actually paying for a product. If I was going to purchase a vehicle I would review Edmunds to see what people are actually paying. If I was going to buy a property I would review Zillow or talk to a RE agent to find the comparables to help determine what I should actually pay. If I'm looking at stocks I'm either going to go with an index fund or talk to a broker. Some other people have thrown out other sources and I'll definitely take that into consideration.

 

Now, if I was looking at a property that the seller was asking 200,000 for and I did my research and I found that folks with similar properties in the same neighborhood were only paying 100,000. I would personally think the guy was kind of an @ss. You're absolutely right the person has every right to ask 200000 or even a cool 1,000,000 for that house but, I, as a buyer would probably avoid that seller in the future. IMHO, I'd think you'd be a fool to do otherwise. Of course this is an extreme example.

 

If we're looking for fools to sell our stuff to I'm not saying that's not perfectly legit and within your right to do. What I'm saying is to me, as a buyer, that's not a business I think I'm going to deal with in the future.

 

Now, if there's flaws in my logic please have at it. And to be honest, not that you care, but $35 is not really a consideration. It's the idea that I find kind of troublesome.

 

 

[Walls]

The entire discussion about price needs to take into account time and timing as well and not just the price itself.

 

People isolate data points out of context when not taking these things into account.

 

For example, an item sold on Christmas eve might sell for a very low price because people are busy with family and festivities whereas as one sold during tax return season might fetch a stronger price because people have cash to spend and are willing to pay a little extra for something they want.

 

Or someone needed the money really bad and put a low "Buy It Now" price on a book.

 

There is also eye appeal, page quality and defects on the books that might draw or dissuade buyers.

 

And as Sean and Hamlet and yourself have said, it all depends on how badly someone wants something. Whether a buyer is inexperienced or just in a hurry, both can amount to the same thing to a seller but it's not up to the seller to decide which is which.

 

Convenience has a price for some.

 

I realize I went on and on about this point in the Watercooler today as well, and I am probably fighting a losing battle but I believe that it's unfortunate that price has become the determining factor in making a purchase in our modern society.

 

What about quality? Convenience? Big picture thinking such as supporting ethical businesses or maybe local businesses that keep the middle class alive?

 

I've adopted the belief that personally, there are more important things in life than getting everything "cheap".

 

For example, I get a little sad for my LCS owner friends whenever I see a thread about buying Trade Paperbacks at Amazon for X% off because I know their brick and mortar business is suffering.

 

I don't judge people for shopping from Amazon. I've done it too.

 

But for me, going to meet like minded people and getting out of house at a local comic shop is worth a little extra rather than pointing and clicking for a purchase on a computer so I'll put in an order with them instead.

 

I'm not meaning to be preachy about it at all. I do plenty of cost cutting when it's justified to me. Just trying to widen the discussion and broaden the perspective a little.

 

 

 

These are all awesome, valid points and again I totally realize there's perspectives other then mine.

 

I'm just hoping those perspectives can be communicated in a reasonable fashion. And if not, well, no big deal.

 

[Hamlet]

This actually isn't a terrible example, since it is happening all the time now.

 

Many of the sales in my local real estate market are foreclosures that are selling for very low prices, since most lenders are very motivated sellers.

 

So you see listings for similiar houses asking way above what the foreclosures are selling for.

 

Are the foreclosures actually the market price, or are they firesale prices?

 

Generally, buyers think that they are market price, and sellers think that they are firesale prices. That leaves a lot (but not all) of these higher priced homes sitting.

 

When a buyer and a seller agree, a house sells.

 

Now, if I was looking at a property that the seller was asking 200,000 for and I did my research and I found that folks with similar properties in the same neighborhood were only paying 100,000. I would personally think the guy was kind of an @ss. You're absolutely right the person has every right to ask 200000 or even a cool 1,000,000 for that house but, I, as a buyer would probably avoid that seller in the future. IMHO, I'd think you'd be a fool to do otherwise. Of course this is an extreme example.

[Hepcat]

That is true, but even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month.

 

You can't compare a 9.4 copy of X-Men 135 to even the most average stock. A 9.4 copy of X-Men 135 may change hands two or three times a year. The average stock trades two or three hundred times per day. In other words, the average stock is thousands of times more liquid. A market characterized by low levels of liquidity is one characterized by high spreads between bid prices and offering prices. There's accordingly no continuity in price between one transaction and the next.

 

 

[Walls]

In my opinion, markets probably operate similarly. What happen with the real estate could probably happen in any market. We bought a couple of properties in 2005 in the DC/Metro region and we're sitting on 25% in unrealized losses. Of course, we rode the market it up so we're not in as bad of shape as others.

 

I personally think speculation drove the prices up to unsustainable levels and now we're seeing the correction. In reality, the market is probably somewhere in between the two.

 

 

[Walls]

That is true, but even the Nasdaq and Dow Jones doesn't double in a month.

 

You can't compare a 9.4 copy of X-Men 135 to even the most average stock. A 9.4 copy of X-Men 135 may change hands two or three times a year. The average stock trades two or three hundred times per day. In other words, the average stock is thousands of times more liquid. A market characterized by low levels of liquidity is one characterized by high spreads between bid prices and offering prices. There's accordingly no continuity in price between one transaction and the next.

 

 

That could be, but when I see evidence that a price has coalesced at a certain price point, I'm skeptical of any unexplained, major deviations in that price.

[FlyingDonut]

So last year, I purchased a copy of X-Men 135 in 9.4 white pages on eBay for $75. This was a few months after I got back into the hobby as a collector and before Jimbo responded to one of my posts telling me about a GPA (thank you so much, Jimbo). I was still trying to figure out how to buy books at reasonable prices.

 

Earlier this year a number of items came up that I wanted and I decided that I wanted a better grade copy of X-Men 135. Now having access to GPA, I went on the site, reviewed the documented sales, looked at the 12 month average and posted the book on eBay and priced it a little lower than the gpa average at $45. I wanted it to move. I lost $30 bucks on the book plus shipping but, you know, caveat emptor and all that. Here's the eBay listing:

 

My xmen 135 sale

 

The book sold back in early January. So, I have some rules set up in eBay and one of them is to let me know when late bronze/early copper x-men come up for sale. So basically I get an email on any x-men books between 100 and 142. Yesterday, I was reviewing my email and I noticed this item for sale:

 

New xmen 135 sale

 

I thought wow, that looks just like the one I had. I zoomed in on the picture, got the cert number and reviewed my records and sure enough, it's the same book. They're asking over 100% more than what I let the book go for in January. I reviewed GPA again and I guess this new prices is based on a single documented sale in Feb for 90 but still higher than that single sale. I'm hugely curious about the details of that sale. I'm not questioning that its valid but was it another uninformed buyer or some other similar situation?

 

Anyway, nothing truly unethical or wrong about what the buyer/seller is doing but, as a collector and buyer, it makes me much more skeptical and distrustful of the hobby and kind of leaves, at least IMHO, a bad impression. Plus, this is going to make it more expensive to pick up a higher graded 135. Possibly, to the point where I may not pick up another.

 

Finally, the buyer picked up two well priced items and never left me positive feed back after receiving the items.

 

 

I think you priced your book too low, the other person is pricing the book too high, and you're whining. That's what I think.

[FlyingDonut]

Plus - and please note the importance here - mycomicshop hasn't SOLD anything.

 

They can price the book at any level they want. Its called (ready for it)...."the free market". You as a buyer can (again, be ready for it)....NOT BUY IT!

[FlyingDonut]

I don't think the buyer is doubling his money on your book. You sold it for 45+12 ship. He consigned it to MCS and they are selling it for $80. MCS raises it prices on ebay to cover the fees. I am not sure if MCS charges the seller a fee now. http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?q=Uncanny+X-Men+135&pubid=&PubRng=

 

Right, but just as the seller doesn't really care about the buyer that doesn't matter to me as a collector. The seller is still asking ~90% over 12 month average.

 

So what? "The Market" will adjust. The book most likely won't sell.

[comix4fun]

The rare, unexpected, Donut Triple Tap.

[Walls]

I think you priced your book too low, the other person is pricing the book too high, and you're whining. That's what I think.

 

We've all got opinions, although I would probably wait until I knew a person before making that statement.

 

[Walls]

The rare, unexpected, Donut Triple Tap.

 

You might want to get a room.

 

[Shootydog]

The seller decides the price. The buyer decides to accept. Thats that.

 

Fair market value, gpa, overstreet are just guidelines. Noone is beholden to any of them.

 

Stop hurting inside.