Collectors of baseball cards striking out

[Hepcat]

Perhaps the most disturbing parallel between the baseball cards and comic books is the impact that grading services have had on their respective markets. By commoditizing baseball cards, PSA drew speculative interest into baseball cards that had not been in the market previously. This prompted an upward spike in card prices and a subsequent correction when the speculators all sought to liquidate their holdings. The existence of CGC has drawn similar speculative interest into comic books. Remember Jay Perrino's The Mint?

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

A very interesting look at a hobby that I think is a keystone to American culture. That being said, there are some similarities but in my opinion, many differences. Baseball (card collecting) seems to be more static than comics which I think is more fluid.

 

What I mean is this...

 

 

Gaylord Perry's career started in 1962 and lasted for 22 years.

 

His rookie card on average is worth about $75.00.

 

 

 

Joe DiMaggio's career started in 1938 and lasted for 13 years.

 

His rookie card on average is worth about $5000.00.

 

With sports, you're looking at a definitive time frame for which a player can accumulate stats which in turn, greatly affects the value of that player's card. With comics, a multitude of variables exist that can increase or decrease the projected value of a book.

 

 

 

It's one thing to compare "value" between comics and sports cards. It's another to compare the historical significance of super heroes and athletes. With fictional super heroes there is no end to what can be imagined. With athletes you're dealing with a real person who lived a real life and accomplished real things and when they were done, their feats are just that, done. They can't hit another home run or steal another base or throw another touchdown. The story, so far as what they accomplished stops, whereas the super hero can continue to save the day in re-imaginings until we're all long gone and turned to dust.

 

You can create new Spider Man stories all you want. You can't create new feats of greatness by Babe Ruth. I think the fact that Babe Ruth is still iconic, and how long he has been iconic is a better measure so far as career longevity. After all, who here saw Babe Ruth play? But we all know about him, which is a testament to how iconic and important he is to our culture. If the last Spider Man story was written 70 years ago, how popular would Spider Man be today? How popular is the Fighting Yank or Phantom Lady in modern culture, especially in comparison to Ruth or Mantle, etc....

 

On another note, regarding value, what I find amazing is not so much the value of cards, but the value of game-used memorabilia.

 

 

 

For instance, anybody recall that Mark McGwire's 70th home run ball sold for $3,000,000. Of course it's plummeted in value since then but as far as I know, no comic has sold for that amount.

 

Multiple Ruth items have sold for north of $500,000 and one of his bats topped out at around $1,250,000 I think. Many game worn jerseys from the greats have fetched huge six figure sums as well.

 

I suppose it's more apples to apples to compare cards to comics. But as far as value-wise I think it gives a distorted picture of how valuable Babe Ruth is in the collecting world vs Supes or Batman. It's more appropriate in my mind, when discussing value, to look at something other than cards.

[ft88]

But game used items are pretty similar to original art vs a comic book. The right frazetta piece or OA comic cover would easily push $1 million or more.

 

Regarding sports icons to cartoon icons. I'm thinking that more folks across the country would know who Superman and Mickey Mouse is versus Joe Dimaggio or Babe Ruth. Not a 50 year old male sports fan but think of the 15 year old boy or girl.

 

And then as time goes by the sports icons lose their pop status. Ask a 20 year old who Cy Young is and he might tell you a trophy.

 

Jim Thorpe anyone? Walter Johnson?

[miraclemet]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

[hockey&comicsguy]

But game used items are pretty similar to original art vs a comic book. The right frazetta piece or OA comic cover would easily push $1 million or more.

 

Regarding sports icons to cartoon icons. I'm thinking that more folks across the country would know who Superman and Mickey Mouse is versus Joe Dimaggio or Babe Ruth. Not a 50 year old male sports fan but think of the 15 year old boy or girl.

 

And then as time goes by the sports icons lose their pop status. Ask a 20 year old who Cy Young is and he might tell you a trophy.

 

Jim Thorpe anyone? Walter Johnson?

 

Oh, I agree, I think OA is more comparable to game used items and cards are more comparable to comics. What I was speaking about was more along the lines of judging their relative importance/popularity in our culture. Specifically, I don't think it's fair to compare a living person with a finite history to a fictional character whose exploits can go on forever.

 

Ask those same people (Americans) if they've ever heard of Ty Cobb or Captain Marvel and see which one is more noticeable. You can't create new Ty Cobb material the same way you can pop out a new Spidey story or film. So obviously something fictional with infinite creative possibilities is going to have a better chance of being relevant as the years go by.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

 

Just speaking for me but if I could have the choice between a fine copy of Action 1 or one of Babe Ruth's game-worn jerseys, I'm going to be looking for a frame that holds jerseys.

[arexcrooke]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

 

Just speaking for me but if I could have the choice between a fine copy of Action 1 or one of Babe Ruth's game-worn jerseys, I'm going to be looking for a frame that holds jerseys.

Oh jeebus yes!

[HOTFLIPS]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

 

Just speaking for me but if I could have the choice between a fine copy of Action 1 or one of Babe Ruth's game-worn jerseys, I'm going to be looking for a frame that holds jerseys.

 

Shameless plug: We Sell Jersey Cases!!

[miraclemet]

Perhaps the most disturbing parallel between the baseball cards and comic books is the impact that grading services have had on their respective markets. By commoditizing baseball cards, PSA drew speculative interest into baseball cards that had not been in the market previously. This prompted an upward spike in card prices and a subsequent correction when the speculators all sought to liquidate their holdings. The existence of CGC has drawn similar speculative interest into comic books. Remember Jay Perrino's The Mint?

 

 

I think there was a speculators market in baseball cards before PSA. PSA came around at the end of the 90s, the speculator boom happened in the early 90s (probably part of what got PSA into the game in the first place was seeing a place in the market for an "authenticator")

 

I remember the early 90s being filled with man baseball cards shows, and maybe that continued on into the late 90s (I was out of the hobby by then) but I dont think it started when PSA hung up a shingle and started business.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

Shameless plug: We Sell Jersey Cases!!

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

But game used items are pretty similar to original art vs a comic book. The right frazetta piece or OA comic cover would easily push $1 million or more.

 

Regarding sports icons to cartoon icons. I'm thinking that more folks across the country would know who Superman and Mickey Mouse is versus Joe Dimaggio or Babe Ruth. Not a 50 year old male sports fan but think of the 15 year old boy or girl.

 

And then as time goes by the sports icons lose their pop status. Ask a 20 year old who Cy Young is and he might tell you a trophy.

 

Jim Thorpe anyone? Walter Johnson?

 

Oh, I agree, I think OA is more comparable to game used items and cards are more comparable to comics. What I was speaking about was more along the lines of judging their relative importance/popularity in our culture. Specifically, I don't think it's fair to compare a living person with a finite history to a fictional character whose exploits can go on forever.

 

Ask those same people (Americans) if they've ever heard of Ty Cobb or Captain Marvel and see which one is more noticeable. You can't create new Ty Cobb material the same way you can pop out a new Spidey story or film. So obviously something fictional with infinite creative possibilities is going to have a better chance of being relevant as the years go by.

Replace Ty Cobb with Tom Brady or Derek Jeter and you will find your answer will be vastly different.

[HOTFLIPS]

But game used items are pretty similar to original art vs a comic book. The right frazetta piece or OA comic cover would easily push $1 million or more.

 

Regarding sports icons to cartoon icons. I'm thinking that more folks across the country would know who Superman and Mickey Mouse is versus Joe Dimaggio or Babe Ruth. Not a 50 year old male sports fan but think of the 15 year old boy or girl.

 

And then as time goes by the sports icons lose their pop status. Ask a 20 year old who Cy Young is and he might tell you a trophy.

 

Jim Thorpe anyone? Walter Johnson?

 

Oh, I agree, I think OA is more comparable to game used items and cards are more comparable to comics. What I was speaking about was more along the lines of judging their relative importance/popularity in our culture. Specifically, I don't think it's fair to compare a living person with a finite history to a fictional character whose exploits can go on forever.

 

Ask those same people (Americans) if they've ever heard of Ty Cobb or Captain Marvel and see which one is more noticeable. You can't create new Ty Cobb material the same way you can pop out a new Spidey story or film. So obviously something fictional with infinite creative possibilities is going to have a better chance of being relevant as the years go by.

Replace Ty Cobb with Tom Brady or Derek Jeter and you will find your answer will be vastly different.

 

(thumbs u agreed.

[arexcrooke]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

 

Just speaking for me but if I could have the choice between a fine copy of Action 1 or one of Babe Ruth's game-worn jerseys, I'm going to be looking for a frame that holds jerseys.

 

Shameless plug: We Sell Jersey Cases!!

I need a case/shadow box for a singlet. Just one, how much?

[HOTFLIPS]

Part of the trick is social acceptance...

 

There are a lot more CEO offices (translation: people with large amounts of disposable income for showing off "treasures) decorated with Sports Memorabilia than there are ones decorated with Comic Book memorabilia....

 

and for that matter Movie memorabilia is probably in between the two...

 

Which i think helps keep the Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio (icons) game used market afloat...

 

I know there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, but if you had to bet what was in the office of my CEO what would you put money on first something sports related or something comic book related?

 

Just speaking for me but if I could have the choice between a fine copy of Action 1 or one of Babe Ruth's game-worn jerseys, I'm going to be looking for a frame that holds jerseys.

 

Shameless plug: We Sell Jersey Cases!!

I need a case/shadow box for a singlet. Just one, how much?

 

Acrylic cases we sell. No shadow boxes. But i know a guy who does them.

[arexcrooke]

Is that something I can buy at a hobby style store?

[hockey&comicsguy]

Replace Ty Cobb with Tom Brady or Derek Jeter and you will find your answer will be vastly different.

 

Of course. But replace Action 1 with Walking Dead 1 and my answer will be different yet again.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Replace Ty Cobb with Tom Brady or Derek Jeter and you will find your answer will be vastly different.

 

Of course. But replace Action 1 with Walking Dead 1 and my answer will be different yet again.

My point here is you keep using old time players as examples. The future generation of sports fans are growing up with superstars like Tom Brady and Derek Jeter. In 25 years those Jeter and Brady rookie cards will be worth more than the thousands they are worth now,similar to how Michael Jordan rookies go for more money now then 25 years ago. Other then Walking Dead and Chew I don`t see many modern comic books 25 years from now at the value of a modern Brady or Albert Pujols rookie cards have now. The big difference between sports stars and comic book stars are there are new sports stars born every year to keep the interest alive,while in comic books a new comic book star franchise like the Walking Dead is a rare occurence that happens once a decade.

So in conclusion

Sports superstars = new major characters every year.

Comic superstars = new major characters every decade.

25 years from now there will be more fans of the many superstar players than just the few comic book superstars.

[Kevin76]

Starting to wonder if maybe walking dead #1 is a turning point in comics, maybe WD #1 starts off the Tin Age?

[hockey&comicsguy]

My point here is you keep using old time players as examples.

 

I get what you're saying. My responses came about from Hibou's post comparing older sports stars, their finite playing careers and how that affects card values vs. comic collecting where super heroes essentially have infinite careers.

 

Really all I was trying to get at is that for me, I don't like to compare card values to comic values as an indicator of what is more popular, iconic or meaningful to our culture. I think if the athlete is important enough, transcendent enough, that athlete can be a bigger icon than Spider Man or Batman for instance, and that to judge which is more iconic, I'd not use rookie cards vs first appearance comics as the decider. That's kind of what got me onto the whole game used memorabilia thought as a better indication of "value".

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

25 years from now there will be more fans of the many superstar players than just the few comic book superstars.

 

I would argue that's the case already. Maybe there are more Spider Man fans worldwide than there are Tom Brady fans. But I'd bet there are far, far more sports fans out there than comic book/super hero fans. And i'd bet that margin is quite big.

 

But I think you're also right to say that in 25 years more people will be a fan of Tom Brady than currently are.