brittle pages......

[Illustrious]

I'm interested in a classic Cap book that's pretty rare, but it's a .5 with brittle pages. Is there any restoration chemicals that could treat the paper and bring them back to being supple?

[ciorac]

I'm interested in a classic Cap book that's pretty rare, but it's a .5 with brittle pages. Is there any restoration chemicals that could treat the paper and bring them back to being supple?

 

To a large degree, yes. I once had a Batman #1 with brittle pages that Matt Nelson treated for me. The pages came back white, and were supple. They had a chemical odor though.

[Illustrious]

Interesting, I might just go for the book then. Once it's re-slabbed after treatment I guess I won't smell an odor anyway.

[etanick]

http://www.classicsincorporated.com/services_restoration.htm

 

take a look at the samples on Matt's website and you will see what they did with an Action #1 with brittle pages.

 

Matt and Kenny can bring life back to very brittled pages. The big question will be is the cost worth it for your book.

[Point Five]

If the book will still be a .5 after treatment, I guess it's hard for me to imagine the cost of restoration would be justified, unless it's literally a book you could never afford any other way. (Consider that for the price of the book plus the cost of the resto, you could maybe just buy a 1.0 with some patience? ... unless it's a book that never, ever comes up in any grade.)

 

 

[Illustrious]

Actually after treatment and a little bit of piece fill, I believe the apparent grade would be much higher and the value would justify the restoration costs. It is a book I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, so this scenario would probably be the only way I could get it. I made the same decision when I made a trade for my coverless Detective Comics #29. Even though it is coverless, the interior pages were complete (although restored) and I was happy to be able to own a copy even in its said state since it's such a rare comic.

[FFB]

http://www.classicsincorporated.com/services_restoration.htm

 

take a look at the samples on Matt's website and you will see what they did with an Action #1 with brittle pages.

 

Matt and Kenny can bring life back to very brittled pages. The big question will be is the cost worth it for your book.

 

They need to update the information on that page. It still says that brittle pages cannot be restored, despite having been proven otherwise.

[VintageComics]

Doesn't bleaching make pages supple?

 

I think that' the smell ciorac noted.

 

 

[Hero Restoration]

Doesn't bleaching make pages supple?

 

I think that' the smell ciorac noted.

 

 

Since he mentioned the pages came out white and they were previously brittle the assumption would be that some type of bleaching process was used. Brittle pages can be reversed and it has been suggested that the bleaching process can help with that if done in moderation.

 

To best explain how professionally washing benefits the paper I would like to quote from an article written by Mear in 1990.

 

“The purpose of washing paper is to remove or reduce soluble deterioration products such as acidic or discolored components, to make the paper more flexible, to reactivate fiber-to-fiber bonding, to remove attachments and/or adhesive residues, to flush treatment chemicals or other impurities from the paper, and in some instances, to reactivate the binder in media. Most papers show an increase in tear strength and folding endurance after washing”

 

There are additional processes which will will help brittleness even further but I wont get into those.

[roulette44]

very informative, thanks!

[roulette44]

Actually after treatment and a little bit of piece fill, I believe the apparent grade would be much higher and the value would justify the restoration costs. It is a book I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, so this scenario would probably be the only way I could get it. I made the same decision when I made a trade for my coverless Detective Comics #29. Even though it is coverless, the interior pages were complete (although restored) and I was happy to be able to own a copy even in its said state since it's such a rare comic.

 

how high?

[Illustrious]

Actually after treatment and a little bit of piece fill, I believe the apparent grade would be much higher and the value would justify the restoration costs. It is a book I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, so this scenario would probably be the only way I could get it. I made the same decision when I made a trade for my coverless Detective Comics #29. Even though it is coverless, the interior pages were complete (although restored) and I was happy to be able to own a copy even in its said state since it's such a rare comic.

 

how high?

 

I honestly believe at least a 5.0, maybe higher.

[Ze-man]

Doesn't bleaching make pages supple?

 

I think that' the smell ciorac noted.

 

 

Since he mentioned the pages came out white and they were previously brittle the assumption would be that some type of bleaching process was used. Brittle pages can be reversed and it has been suggested that the bleaching process can help with that if done in moderation.

 

To best explain how professionally washing benefits the paper I would like to quote from an article written by Mear in 1990.

 

“The purpose of washing paper is to remove or reduce soluble deterioration products such as acidic or discolored components, to make the paper more flexible, to reactivate fiber-to-fiber bonding, to remove attachments and/or adhesive residues, to flush treatment chemicals or other impurities from the paper, and in some instances, to reactivate the binder in media. Most papers show an increase in tear strength and folding endurance after washing”

 

There are additional processes which will will help brittleness even further but I wont get into those.

 

 

Brittleness in paper cannot be reversed. The affected paper is typically too burnt, chippy or broken.

 

That said, the interior of a comic book(newsprint) can be brittle on varying levels depending on its exposure through improper storage conditions. The spine, the outer edges, a corner, or the entire page. With a brittle page being near untreatable.

 

Washing an interior with brittle characteristics will obviously wash out some of the nasty acids and tannins, as well as lighten the interior if bleach is used. BUT, if you use bleach it can further break down the fibers, and lignins.

 

Bleach was used when the newsprint was first made to break down and soften the acidic lignins naturally inherit in wood pulp. Hence why comics(newsprint) eat themselves, or rather "slow burn" from the acids created as a result of the very materials, and processes used to create it. So what harm is there in bleaching a 70 year old comic interior, vs what harmful elements get washed out is hard to say.

 

Saying that bleaching paper can reverse brittleness is simply incorrect though, to the point of being misleading.

 

Bleaching might make the resulting paper more rigid, but over time it has been shown to be more harmful then beneficial. We do not use bleach anymore like Matt used to years ago(Sarrill was a big fan of Chlor T), and if we do use it, it is on isolated, already weakened stained areas.

 

The easiest, and cheapest way to treat brittle newsprint is by washing the pages, rinsing them several times and introduce sizing or gelatin into the wash/bath to add some suppleness back into the paper. But the brittleness in a page cannot be reversed because too many fibers are broken down(hemi cellulose) to expect any type of hydrogen bonding to happen again. So a brittle page can only be beefed up with sizing, reinforced with japan papers, or leaf casting to the brittle areas.

 

Basically supporting, and adding life back into the page, but not reversing the areas that are brittle.

 

That said, a treated, leaf casted brittle interior can quite literally turn a .5 bag o chips into a supple interior again. With the only unfortunate aspect being the expense of so much work required on a GA comic book.

 

 

[Illustrious]

Just as a follow up, I did decide to buy the book in question, it's a USA Comics #7

 

 

[vaillant]

Biggest problem appears the large piece missing from the first page (it says "affects story"). You’ll need to find a page, or a coverless copy, otherwise, how would you fix it?

Anyway, if you manage to have it restored, at least you’ll be able to read it without fear.

[Illustrious]

I am going to get it restored down the road, and the missing piece from the first page will probably be leafcasted back in and then the art repainted over. Have you seen some other examples in this forum of leafcasting? It's pretty much changed the whole face of comic restoration.

[Boba]

Doesn't bleaching make pages supple?

 

I think that' the smell ciorac noted.

 

 

Since he mentioned the pages came out white and they were previously brittle the assumption would be that some type of bleaching process was used. Brittle pages can be reversed and it has been suggested that the bleaching process can help with that if done in moderation.

 

To best explain how professionally washing benefits the paper I would like to quote from an article written by Mear in 1990.

 

“The purpose of washing paper is to remove or reduce soluble deterioration products such as acidic or discolored components, to make the paper more flexible, to reactivate fiber-to-fiber bonding, to remove attachments and/or adhesive residues, to flush treatment chemicals or other impurities from the paper, and in some instances, to reactivate the binder in media. Most papers show an increase in tear strength and folding endurance after washing”

 

There are additional processes which will will help brittleness even further but I wont get into those.

 

 

Brittleness in paper cannot be reversed. The affected paper is typically too burnt, chippy or broken.

 

That said, the interior of a comic book(newsprint) can be brittle on varying levels depending on its exposure through improper storage conditions. The spine, the outer edges, a corner, or the entire page. With a brittle page being near untreatable.

 

Washing an interior with brittle characteristics will obviously wash out some of the nasty acids and tannins, as well as lighten the interior if bleach is used. BUT, if you use bleach it can further break down the fibers, and lignins.

 

Bleach was used when the newsprint was first made to break down and soften the acidic lignins naturally inherit in wood pulp. Hence why comics(newsprint) eat themselves, or rather "slow burn" from the acids created as a result of the very materials, and processes used to create it. So what harm is there in bleaching a 70 year old comic interior, vs what harmful elements get washed out is hard to say.

 

Saying that bleaching paper can reverse brittleness is simply incorrect though, to the point of being misleading.

 

Bleaching might make the resulting papIer more rigid, but over time it has been shown to be more harmful then beneficial. We do not use bleach anymore like Matt used to years ago(Sarrill was a big fan of Chlor T), and if we do use it, it is on isolated, already weakened stained areas.

 

The easiest, and cheapest way to treat brittle newsprint is by washing the pages, rinsing them several times and introduce sizing or gelatin into the wash/bath to add some suppleness back into the paper. But the brittleness in a page cannot be reversed because too many fibers are broken down(hemi cellulose) to expect any type of hydrogen bonding to happen again. So a brittle page can only be beefed up with sizing, reinforced with japan papers, or leaf casting to the brittle areas.

 

Basically supporting, and adding life back into the page, but not reversing the areas that are brittle.U

 

That said, a treated, leaf casted brittle interior can quite literally turn a .5 bag o chips into a supple interior again. With the only unfortunate aspect being the expense of so much work required on a GA comic book.

 

 

The search feature is truly an asset - I was wondering about this precise thing and was going to ask if "sizing" could remedy the problem of slightly brittle pages in a comic book. I remembered what those water-logged books you (Kenny) treated with a bath and resizing and how great they came out and I was going to ask if it could help with slightly brittle pages. I guess the answer is yes.

Of course this begs the question, has there been any new developments or ways to deal with this problem? So many great books out there stigmatized by this condition. I think only trimmed books are avoided more.

[Tony S]

Just as a follow up, I did decide to buy the book in question, it's a USA Comics #7

 

 

Just my here:

 

When it's in a slab, no one can read it anyway.

 

The book has a blue label - and it has incredible eye appeal for .5. Really. Nice color, main cover image is very appealing.

 

I like it just the way it is....

[AnkurJ]

I would suggest waiting to find a coverless copy with nice paper.

 

I have an Action 7 that has brittle corners and overall weak paper that I really want to get fixed. But last time I spoke with Matt (a few months ago), he said there is really no treatment for it. Considering its value even with the brittleness, I have very little into it.

[Hero Restoration]

Pages are not doomed because they are brittle, there is hope.