SS on high grade keys?

[Jeffro.]

If you are getting a Pedigree book you plan to flip SS'd because you dont "give a rats " about them just to make dat paper KNOWING you are destroying the book for a lot people, sorry but THAT IS SELFISH AS HELL. Thats all i said (thumbs u

 

That's fine as long as you understand that some people will take exception to you calling them selfish and then lash out at you. It also doesn't help to then compound the matter by using terms like 'butt-hurt'

 

And besides, 'destroying the book for a lot of people' is also 'creating a highly collectible item' to others.

 

As I said, I wouldn't do it myself. Whenever I see an rare uber HG copy or a rare-in-grade type of book with a sig splashed across the cover, I cringe. However, that choice is up to them. As is also the choice to flip it or not.

 

Frankly, there are one hell of a lot more 'selfish' and potentially more destructive things going on in the hobby right now than flipping HG SS comics.

[NYComics]

Here is what I do-----

 

 

I look for NICE presenting copies.

 

I try to land the sigs in the PERFECT place.

 

I avoid buying pedigrees because those cost me more and I am trying to get as much quality as possible. There are great books out there for a lot less because there is no "collection" noted on the CGC case.

[Jeffro.]

Take that Suscha Avengers 1 for instance. I LOVED that book and wanted it BAD! I know some will say "then you should have bought it!" and yes thats true. I thought i could get better than his ridiculous BIN price later and at worse, someone else buys it and i have to wait til god knows when to get it. It didnt occur to me that the owner would DESTROY it to make a few more $$$! That book is completely ruined now! He doesnt care about that book at all or what the Pedigree means to people, all he cares about is squeezing a few more bucks out of the sale. Anyone doing that is selfish as hell, sorry!

 

It's ruined for you . It isn't ruined for everyone.

 

Besides, you did just fine with that copy you got from Roy and you didn't have to sell off internal organs to get it. (thumbs u

[sufunk]

Take that Suscha Avengers 1 for instance. I LOVED that book and wanted it BAD! I know some will say "then you should have bought it!" and yes thats true. I thought i could get better than his ridiculous BIN price later and at worse, someone else buys it and i have to wait til god knows when to get it. It didnt occur to me that the owner would DESTROY it to make a few more $$$! That book is completely ruined now! He doesnt care about that book at all or what the Pedigree means to people, all he cares about is squeezing a few more bucks out of the sale. Anyone doing that is selfish as hell, sorry!

 

It's ruined for you . It isn't ruined for everyone.

 

Besides, you did just fine with that copy you got from Roy and you didn't have to sell off internal organs to get it. (thumbs u

 

True, but its also ruined for a LOT of other people. That is a mid-grade book though so i cant freak out about that one since theoretically that is the perfect book for SS. That being said, at least put a TINY bit of effort into the sig placement!!! Did you look at the scan i posted at the beginning of the thread ?

 

As bad as those sig placements are, that book is pretty much ruined for EVERYONE! Pretty much everyone who ive shown that too, SS fans or not, think it looks HORRIBLE now

[lscomics]

Take that Suscha Avengers 1 for instance. I LOVED that book and wanted it BAD! I know some will say "then you should have bought it!" and yes thats true. I thought i could get better than his ridiculous BIN price later and at worse, someone else buys it and i have to wait til god knows when to get it. It didnt occur to me that the owner would DESTROY it to make a few more $$$! That book is completely ruined now! He doesnt care about that book at all or what the Pedigree means to people, all he cares about is squeezing a few more bucks out of the sale. Anyone doing that is selfish as hell, sorry!

 

It's ruined for you . It isn't ruined for everyone.

+1

 

Historically people have been collecting signatures since before there even were comic books. This is the only hobby I know of where a small group of people think that a signature detracts from an item.

[sufunk]

That's because things like a baseball have no inherent valu most of the time without the sig. Unless its a 700th home run ball or something, the value is in the sig not the ball.

 

That's not true with comics. The value is in the comic most of the time. The sig just sometimes adds MORE value. Big difference (thumbs u

[seanfingh]

That's because things like a baseball have no inherent valu most of the time without the sig. Unless its a 700th home run ball or something, the value is in the sig not the ball.

 

That's not true with comics. The value is in the comic most of the time. The sig just sometimes adds MORE value. Big difference (thumbs u

 

It's really not a big difference. Weeping about "pedigrees" like the Suscha News pedigree is hilarious. The Suscha News pedigree is a marketing device. It is a backstory. There is nothing special about them other than that they were really nicely preserved.

 

Church books, White Mountains etc. I can see that these are considered historic and important because of their provenance, and because of the long history of connection with fandom. I respect the opinion of those who feel like those books should be undespoiled by signatures.

 

More high grade Silver is going to be turned up all the time. More 8.5s and 9.0s are going to wind up in 9.4 and 9.6 slabs as well through rampant pressing. I can virtually guarantee there will be more "pedigrees" unleashed upon the world over the next couple years as well. Personally, i am really looking forward to the "Mom's Basement" collection, which surely is on its way soon.

 

Everyone gets it. You don't like signatures on high grade Silver. But is it really that big a deal as much of it as is out there?

[sufunk]

That's because things like a baseball have no inherent valu most of the time without the sig. Unless its a 700th home run ball or something, the value is in the sig not the ball.

 

That's not true with comics. The value is in the comic most of the time. The sig just sometimes adds MORE value. Big difference (thumbs u

 

It's really not a big difference. Weeping about "pedigrees" like the Suscha News pedigree is hilarious. The Suscha News pedigree is a marketing device. It is a backstory. There is nothing special about them other than that they were really nicely preserved.

 

Church books, White Mountains etc. I can see that these are considered historic and important because of their provenance, and because of the long history of connection with fandom. I respect the opinion of those who feel like those books should be undespoiled by signatures.

 

More high grade Silver is going to be turned up all the time. More 8.5s and 9.0s are going to wind up in 9.4 and 9.6 slabs as well through rampant pressing. I can virtually guarantee there will be more "pedigrees" unleashed upon the world over the next couple years as well. Personally, i am really looking forward to the "Mom's Basement" collection, which surely is on its way soon.

 

Everyone gets it. You don't like signatures on high grade Silver. But is it really that big a deal as much of it as is out there?

 

No, trust me, i'm not weeping over the Suscha 1. It's a mid-grade book so like i said, its actually a perfect SS candidate. The HORRIFIC sig placement is prety sad though. These "new marketing" Peds as you say like Suscha, TC, Savannah, i'm not saying those should be held to some crazy standard. Personally tome, its disappointing but i'm not freaking out over THAT.

 

Mile HIgh, Church, WM, and even ones like PC, Curator and some others though, i think it is CRAZY to be SSing books like that. Personally, i dont think any Pedigrees should be SS'd but i'm only going to get upset over the "special" Pedigree like the ones you listed and a few others. Those are special books that mean a hell of a lot to some people. A lot of them were perfectly preserved for 50,60,70,80 years! To slap someone sig on the cover seems crazy to me

[sufunk]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

[Jeffro.]

True, but its also ruined for a LOT of other people. That is a mid-grade book though so i cant freak out about that one since theoretically that is the perfect book for SS. That being said, at least put a TINY bit of effort into the sig placement!!! Did you look at the scan i posted at the beginning of the thread ?

 

As bad as those sig placements are, that book is pretty much ruined for EVERYONE! Pretty much everyone who ive shown that too, SS fans or not, think it looks HORRIBLE now

 

Oh, I agree that sig placement is important aesthetically. That's why prepping the book is important.

[sufunk]

True, but its also ruined for a LOT of other people. That is a mid-grade book though so i cant freak out about that one since theoretically that is the perfect book for SS. That being said, at least put a TINY bit of effort into the sig placement!!! Did you look at the scan i posted at the beginning of the thread ?

 

As bad as those sig placements are, that book is pretty much ruined for EVERYONE! Pretty much everyone who ive shown that too, SS fans or not, think it looks HORRIBLE now

 

Oh, I agree that sig placement is important aesthetically. That's why prepping the book is important.

 

That what bothers me the most about the Suscha book. It seems like the owner could have cared less where the sigs went or what it looked like. Maybe i'm wrong but i cant imagine thats where he PLANNED that book to be signed.

 

Suscha's and a lot of other Peds may not mean squat to others and thats fine. I dont expect anyone else to care about them. I do HOPE that people will have some little bit of respect for them though wether they care about them or not.

 

It's like i said in another post. Say someone who doesnt care about Sigs whatsoever buys some 10.0 SS book that is unique, cracks it open and throws away the label. Then a month later, he reholders it to sell it but now its forever a green label and that unique SS book is gone forever to GLOD hell. That wouldn't bother you guys???

[Rip]

 

What you consider marring a book is of no consequence to me. As far as your precious pedigrees go... I don't give a rats behind about those. I think it's crazy to pay the premiums they sell for just to be able to say "This is the Mile High copy". If you're so concerned about preserving pedigrees from being subbed for SS maybe all the pedigree flippers should stop putting them on the market every six months that way you don't have to worry about the SS community getting a hold of them.

 

Spoken like man who has thumbed through a stack of Church books and has a grasp of comic book history

 

 

 

I know plenty about pedigrees and comic book history. I've seen and closely examined books from quite a few of them. I maintain my stance that a pedigree copy of any given book is, as far as content goes, the same as every other copy of said book. I have also seen copies of many books that aren't pedigrees that are far nicer examples in regards to gloss, page quality etc. What I think is ludicrous is the fact that someone will pay 2-3-4 x + more for a copy of a book in 9.8 just because of a note on the label.

 

No doubt not all pedigrees are the same.

But I would love to know what Church books (or Tom R, Allentown) you have closely examined.

Please educate me and many others in the gold section and tell us label note hunters where you are finding these books with as good as or better than Church state of preservation.

Many of us have been collecting this stuff for over 20 years, and would like to know.

 

I'm here to learn

[comix4fun]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

 

 

 

Side conversation: Weren't pedigrees a hell of a lot more significant before there were 787 of them? Do you remember back when you could name the real pedigrees on one hand or maybe one and a half?

 

Lately it seems there's a new one every week or two.

 

It's like diluting your single malt with moonshine, it will still get you toasted, but the label doesn't mean what it once did.

[comix4fun]

Wow!

 

It's exactly that attitude that makes a lot of people hate SS people. Sorry but everything you just said there is pretty much the definition of selfish in my book. Sad

You should look up the definition of selfish when you get time. Your view on this topic is every bit as selfish.

 

Wow! Your reading comprehension is poor

 

I've said a bunch of times, if they are books your planning on keeping, do whatever the hell you want with them to make you happy.

 

If you are planning to just flip it, please don't destroy something fairly unique to make a few quick bucks. It may not matter to you but THAT is the definition of selfish which you clearly don't understand because you've apparently been so butthurt by the horrible anti-SS sentiment you've had to endure

 

 

 

Is there some kind of rally I can attend? Perhaps there is a newsletter, armband or decoder ring that comes with the anti-ss membership kit?

 

I've never heard of "anti-ss" sentiment, much less endured any of it, until I stumbled into this thread.

 

Perhaps there's a reality show on Discovery, or the History Channel, that can get me up to speed on this growing movement.

 

I do find it funny that one sect of comic collecting would think they are more "socially acceptable/normal" than any other. At the end of the day, we are all getting stuffed in to the locker with our underwear over our head, so might want to pump the brakes a bit.

 

 

 

 

I don't think one side is more acceptable or normal whatsoever. If you like SS, great! It's just not my thing. Like I said in my 1st few posts, to me most sig placements look bad and take away from the cover so I dont like them or the book anymore. Just my preference. If you like it better, that's fine by me.

 

Unique books deserve special treatment in my mind though

 

 

 

misquote fixed.

[Rip]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

 

 

 

Side conversation: Weren't pedigrees a hell of a lot more significant before there were 787 of them? Do you remember back when you could name the real pedigrees on one hand or maybe one and a half?

 

Lately it seems there's a new one every week or two.

 

It's like diluting your single malt with moonshine, it will still get you toasted, but the label doesn't mean what it once did.

 

Very true, in fact I do not think White Mountain holds the great provenance it used to either.

[sufunk]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

 

 

 

Side conversation: Weren't pedigrees a hell of a lot more significant before there were 787 of them? Do you remember back when you could name the real pedigrees on one hand or maybe one and a half?

 

Lately it seems there's a new one every week or two.

 

It's like diluting your single malt with moonshine, it will still get you toasted, but the label doesn't mean what it once did.

 

true, but it still means something doesnt it?

 

I'm not saying these new ones are anything like the "special" ones from the GA but they are important to a lot of people. Even though some people think they are just marketing or a dime a dozen, they've also brought to market some of the NICEST copies of a lot of books that are seemingly common. I've talked to MANY people happy as hell about the Suscha and TC Peds because they brought out a bunch of BA books that were impossible to find before that nice.

 

It may not be on the scale of Church or Mile high but they do still have some significance no matter how many there are now

[comix4fun]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

 

 

 

Side conversation: Weren't pedigrees a hell of a lot more significant before there were 787 of them? Do you remember back when you could name the real pedigrees on one hand or maybe one and a half?

 

Lately it seems there's a new one every week or two.

 

It's like diluting your single malt with moonshine, it will still get you toasted, but the label doesn't mean what it once did.

 

true, but it still means something doesnt it?

 

I'm not saying these new ones are anything like the "special" ones from the GA but they are important to a lot of people. Even though some people think they are just marketing or a dime a dozen, they've also brought to market some of the NICEST copies of a lot of books that are seemingly common. I've talked to MANY people happy as hell about the Suscha and TC Peds because they brought out a bunch of BA books that were impossible to find before that nice.

 

It may not be on the scale of Church or Mile high but they do still have some significance no matter how many there are now

 

 

They don't necessarily mean anything on their own, other than in terms of effective marketing. The books themselves have to be of a certain quality to warrant the respect people naming these pedigrees want to bestow upon them. If the quality is there, and in a large enough sample, and in a recognizable quality then, yes, it may mean something.

 

However, I've seen pedigrees with cream pages over large swaths, or where the majority of grades fall in a 9.0 or below with some spectacular exceptions.

 

Simply, the pedigree doesn't mean a thing to me unless it's backed up by some real quality and consistency of that quality across the collection. Otherwise it's just an apple-polish sell job.

[mschmidt]

It's like i said in another post. Say someone who doesnt care about Sigs whatsoever buys some 10.0 SS book that is unique, cracks it open and throws away the label. Then a month later, he reholders it to sell it but now its forever a green label and that unique SS book is gone forever to GLOD hell. That wouldn't bother you guys???

 

I didn't realize we'd moved into the "let's put forth the most ridiculous scenarios one can think of"-phase of the conversation ::

[sufunk]

It's like i said in another post. Say someone who doesnt care about Sigs whatsoever buys some 10.0 SS book that is unique, cracks it open and throws away the label. Then a month later, he reholders it to sell it but now its forever a green label and that unique SS book is gone forever to GLOD hell. That wouldn't bother you guys???

 

I didn't realize we'd moved into the "let's put forth the most ridiculous scenarios one can think of"-phase of the conversation ::

 

 

Make any scenario you want, if a "unique" SS book was ruined forever, people would lose their mess! I'm fairly certain they wouldn't accept the "i dont give a rats " about SS books line and not care (thumbs u

[Guardian Comics]

I will say though that I just don't understand WHY you would SS that Avengers 1. Suscha may be a "marketing ploy" but it's still s Pedigree and special on some level. There are a MILLION 5.5 range Avengers1. Why SS the ONE Pedigree copy when there's a million and one "regular" copies to SS?

 

 

 

Side conversation: Weren't pedigrees a hell of a lot more significant before there were 787 of them? Do you remember back when you could name the real pedigrees on one hand or maybe one and a half?

 

Lately it seems there's a new one every week or two.

 

It's like diluting your single malt with moonshine, it will still get you toasted, but the label doesn't mean what it once did.

 

Very true, in fact I do not think White Mountain holds the great provenance it used to either.