Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[Mark 1]

He lost me many many posts ago

[bluechip]

BC- I do not have know for sue...opps I mean for sure, as I have no stake in the CGC or any other dealer like DS. But from the evidence it appears what you are asking has probably happened. The real issue is how much, who, where and when. That is a lot of questions. You add a few auction houses to the list( masto or whoever was shut down) that are out of business to price questions you have addressed. They are very tough questions to answer. I wish I could answer all your questions. Being in the comic book world for 50 years...I have seen worse and just about everything. How can it be worse...there used to be dealer who would sell you books in the early early 70's and have his friend or asso steal them back.....just some amazing stuff in the good old early days. That does not make the actions you described above as anything less.

 

I feel your anger BC...I am 100% against it now, in the past or forever.

 

 

I want just as bad as you, for the comic book world to be a fair one. It is good for us and the business, and the long run if it But we live in an imperfect world......forget about blue, green or purple....fair is fair and there is not getting around that.

 

Do you have any suggestions to prevent that from occuring in the future.

 

Use of words instead of label colors to describe defects and -- more importantly -- treating restoration itself as a defect.

 

Color touch is a defect in addition to the wrinkles it may hide. Tape and tear seals are defects in addition to the tear itself.

 

The idea that people won't be able to read the words is not a genuine argument and most of the people who favor the special colored labels will say they just want it to be stigmatized because they don't like it.

 

And if you point out that people will buy a color touched book in a blue label and not in a purple label, that only reinforces their desire to have the colored labels because it proves people are swayed more by the color and the stigmatization than they are by the simple disclosure.

 

That attitude, and CGC policies playing into it, is a major problem, not just because of how much potential it contains for abuse and favoritism, but because it puts a huge emotional component into what is supposed to be objective evaluation. And there's no getting around that it's expecting CGC graders to behave like thought police.

 

[lou_fine]

There's no

Isn't Doug's collecting a hobby not a for profit business (his auction site by contrast is a business for profit).

 

I know the IRS doesn't let you take losses for hobbies (like part time horse breeding etc), so under IRS rules the opposite would be true: you wouldnt have to pay taxes on gains from hobbies? So there are no capital gains taxes for Doug?

 

1) I'd be surprised if Doug doesn't sell more comics from his personal collection yearly than you can and still be considered a hobbyist. Having said that, I also bet that if he does report those sales, he does it under his business.

2) No, you're not exempt from taxes as a hobbyist. Nothing exempts you from taxes on income that I'm aware of. You're right that hobbyists can't claim losses, although you can deduct them from gains for that year, just can't get credits if you net a loss on the year.

3) The income from comics as a hobbyist or a business isn't considered a capital gain and taxed at the lower rate of 15%, it's taxed at the full rate for your tax bracket, i.e. 25% to 30% or more. The lower capital gain tax only applies to certain types of investments, mostly stocks.

 

That doesn't make sense. If you can't take the loss because of the hobby rule, then in fairness you shouldn't have to pay taxes if you make money. What is this heads the government wins, tails the government wins? Thats not tax fairness

 

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. but there's no implied or expressed 'fairness' in taxes. The same works with gambling. Gambing winnings are income, but losses can only be deducted to the extent of offsetting your winnings.

 

Not exactly sure about the American tax laws.

 

Does this mean that collectors will be able to offset the gains which they have made from their vintage comic books against the losses which they incurred on the Modern books which they brought off the newsstand?

 

For tax purposes, when does something like a comic book cross over the line from a consumption good to an investment qualified capital gain or a capital loss offset?

[tth2]

7) Bargain hunters would no longer be able to purchase beautiful looking books at drop dead bottom feeder prices;

See, this is the reason I always think that the folks who are so anti-different colored label are talking out of the other side of their mouths.

 

If they really have no issue with restored books, then they should love being able to purchase restored books at bottom feeder prices thanks to the stigma CGC allegedly helped to attach to restored books by assiging a "purple letter" to restored books.

 

Methinks all the noble reasons advanced for getting rid of a different colored label really boils down to what you`ve said yourself:

 

"6) Value of restored books might increase"

 

 

[blockedshot]

i bet some of the people complaiing of the MICRO-undetectable trim are gonna be the biggest bidders at this auction. you press and trim but the book still has white pages and looks great anyway. I really do not see a complaint with a 9.8 book it cannot go any higher pressed or not. what is really interesting is what book is gonna go highest, tos 39 or x men 1

 

I hope someday to see a museum of comic books and art....it is about time...

 

As usual, food for thought....great post

 

I TRUST the cgc to determine a blue vs a purple label. It was better than guessing or or the way it was before. It is the comic book reality of 2012.

 

Is it right that the same book the cgc said was 9.2 is now 9.6 after mico triming, pressing and voodoo no. But BC we are never gonna get perfection. If mico triming gets thru the cgc with a blue label..so be it.

 

The blue label is like a "BMW" in our comic world vs a Chevy. If you want it you are gonna pay more. Is a BMW better than chevy, yes most of the time it is and you are gonna pay more for the BMW times 2x or times X10 in the comic book world.

 

BC, not everybody can afford or wants a BMW or a blue label comic book. That is where you either pay up or shut up.

 

I disagree with you about people spending 10X on a blue label, if folks want to buy a fancy car like a RR or BMW or get a blue label comic book and they will PAY for

it then so be it. Is it wrong to want the best of the best, NO. Does the best of the best cost more...yes not only in comic books. Does the CGC make mistakes or favor certain collectors who try to get the book regraded many times, probably but not intentionally.

 

BC the cgc is not gonna blow a mutli-million dollar business of DS or you or me. The system is not perfect. They try...that what counts.

 

Purple label means in our comic book world "BUYER BEWARE". The comic books has been destroyed or altered by evil forces who want to increase the value of the comic book while destorying it at the same time. Every time you buy a purple book, you aid the destroyers of the unrestored book by feeding their greed in my opinion. now the new game is to hide the restoration from the CGC, these people are even worse. I will not ever, nor ever sell a book that has been trimmed, pressed, or other hidden ways to increase the value. Never BC...Never...it just aint right....period.

I completely Agree. Could not have said it better myself.

[trmoore54]

He lost me many many 99 posts ago

 

Fixed that for ya...

[fantastic_four]

For tax purposes, when does something like a comic book cross over the line from a consumption good to an investment qualified capital gain or a capital loss offset?

 

It never does cross that line.

[bluechip]

7) Bargain hunters would no longer be able to purchase beautiful looking books at drop dead bottom feeder prices;

See, this is the reason I always think that the folks who are so anti-different colored label are talking out of the other side of their mouths.

 

If they really have no issue with restored books, then they should love being able to purchase restored books at bottom feeder prices thanks to the stigma CGC allegedly helped to attach to restored books by assiging a "purple letter" to restored books.

 

Methinks all the noble reasons advanced for getting rid of a different colored label really boils down to what you`ve said yourself:

 

"6) Value of restored books might increase"

 

 

You realize you made fun of him for false nobility (which I don't think he actually laid claim to) and, at the same time, embracing complete cynicism.

 

Re your statement: "...they should love being able to purchase restored books at bottom feeder prices thanks to the stigma CGC allegedly helped to attach to restored books by assiging a "purple letter"..."

 

That statement presumes people always, and always should, embrace unfair and irrational tactics and policies, so long as it favors them.

 

If you allow that "..(the) value of restored books might increase" without a stigma label, then you're acknowleding that it's the label, and not an intrinsic and natural abhorrence of restoration, that plays the greatest part in making people avoid restored books (and that is to say nothing of purple label low grade books that have not actually been "restored" in any sense of the word that normal people would recognize).

 

But you seem to imply heavily that a third party grading system should not only do it in a way that means it cannot possibly be done consistently and fairly, but that it's actualy a good thing when it leads to inconsistent and unfair results.

 

And, no, the idea that restored books might go up in value if they are not unfairly stigmatized is not the equivalent or flip side of that argument.

 

It would be -- if and only if -- someone argued that altered books should not be identified on the label with WORDS!

 

But, so far, I've seen virtually no one argue that books improved in grade with color touch or whatever should not be labelled with words.

 

If anything, the only arguments I've seen here for labels making no reference whatever to alterations have to do with pressing -- which some say shouldn't be noted with colors OR words. And pressing is something that, coincidentally, seems to be practiced by people who cry the loudest that purple labels are a great thing, so long as the books they've altered don't get it.

 

 

 

[Mark 1]

Anyone see this photo? GPA put out a press release on Facebook about this and the claim is Doug will net about 3 million dollars.

 

[Mmehdy]

At three million dollars and 686 books that would mean the avg price would have to be $4,373 dollars each. I think that might be high. I think the 2.5 or $3,644 amount per book is closer.

[trmoore54]

At three million dollars and 686 books that would mean the avg price would have to be $4,373 dollars each. I think that might be high. I think the 2.5 or $3,644 amount per book is closer.

 

What do you win if you're closer??

 

I knew we could get this thread to 100...

[comicwiz]

Comic book fanatic's prized collection to fetch a staggering $3million at auction

 

Excerpt from the article:

 

'The stories I could tell you of meeting at diners and post offices in Northern New Jersey, at office buildings and street corners in New York City to obtain that missing issue or coveted upgrade would blow your mind.

 

'My favourite has to be the 9.8 X-Men first edition. I love that whole run of comics and to own one in such perfect condition is rare.

 

'I sincerely hope the collectors who buy some of my books can enjoy them even half as much as I have.'

[Flash105]

At three million dollars and 686 books that would mean the avg price would have to be $4,373 dollars each. I think that might be high. I think the 2.5 or $3,644 amount per book is closer.

 

I don't think that is high at all. Let's take the X-Men Run 1-66. Some people have estimated #1 would bring 500K. So let's say it only gets 250K. Well that book alone averages the entire run at 3700 if he gives the rest of the books away. I think he will easily push 8-9K avg per book on that run. He will match that on his Avengers, Tales of Suspense, Fantastic Four, and Journey into Mystery. The other titles will probably get more into the 2500-3200 per book avg which is still good. The big books alone might be 1.4-1.8 mil.

[namisgr]

 

Does this mean that collectors will be able to offset the gains which they have made from their vintage comic books against the losses which they incurred on the Modern books which they brought off the newsstand?

 

For tax purposes, when does something like a comic book cross over the line from a consumption good to an investment qualified capital gain or a capital loss offset?

 

1. No, if you don't sell them all.

 

2. As far as I know, for those selling from their personal collections net profit on a comic book sale is treated as normal income if the sale occurs within a year of the purchase. If longer than a year has elapsed, the net profit is subject to the federal tax rate on collectables of 28%. For those selling a set of books, the tax liability is incurred on the overall net profit.

[Mark 1]

 

Does this mean that collectors will be able to offset the gains which they have made from their vintage comic books against the losses which they incurred on the Modern books which they brought off the newsstand?

 

For tax purposes, when does something like a comic book cross over the line from a consumption good to an investment qualified capital gain or a capital loss offset?

 

1. No, if you don't sell them all.

 

2. As far as I know, for those selling from their personal collections net profit on a comic book sale is treated as normal income if the sale occurs within a year of the purchase. If longer than a year has elapsed, the net profit is subject to the federal tax rate on collectables of 28%. For those selling a set of books, the tax liability is incurred on the overall net profit.

 

I'd imagine that is technically correct but how often does that happen for a collector (not a dealer) selling high ticket books?

 

I see big sales every week on this site...are those sellers claiming that as income on their taxes?

 

[Gotham Kid]

At three million dollars and 686 books that would mean the avg price would have to be $4,373 dollars each. I think that might be high. I think the 2.5 or $3,644 amount per book is closer.

 

I don't think that is high at all. The big books alone might be 1.4-1.8 mil.

 

+1

[Flaming_Telepath]

Comic book fanatic's prized collection to fetch a staggering $3million at auction

 

Excerpt from the article:

 

'The stories I could tell you of meeting at diners and post offices in Northern New Jersey, at office buildings and street corners in New York City to obtain that missing issue or coveted upgrade would blow your mind.

 

'My favourite has to be the 9.8 X-Men first edition. I love that whole run of comics and to own one in such perfect condition is rare.

 

'I sincerely hope the collectors who buy some of my books can enjoy them even half as much as I have.'

 

This whole thing makes me want to vomit up a fortnight's worth of dinner.

 

He paid for the books with the money stolen from an 84 year old grand-mother, for fekk's sake.

[Mark 1]

Comic book fanatic's prized collection to fetch a staggering $3million at auction

 

Excerpt from the article:

 

'The stories I could tell you of meeting at diners and post offices in Northern New Jersey, at office buildings and street corners in New York City to obtain that missing issue or coveted upgrade would blow your mind.

 

'My favourite has to be the 9.8 X-Men first edition. I love that whole run of comics and to own one in such perfect condition is rare.

 

'I sincerely hope the collectors who buy some of my books can enjoy them even half as much as I have.'

 

This whole thing makes me want to vomit up a fortnight's worth of dinner.

 

He paid for the books with the money stolen from an 84 year old grand-mother, for fekk's sake.

 

I've asked this before.

 

Has this been proven? I thought the clients were paid back. Otherwise, he would have been in jail for theft or would have a judgement against him and he will need to pay it back.

 

I'm not defending the guy at all. However, when I see such blanket statements like this FT and so far no one has produced evidence that this is a fact...I want to know more information before forming a conclusion.

 

Do you have a link or somewhere it says or proves he stole the money from his clients, bought comics with it, never paid the money back and is now profiting from it?

 

It's a huge accusation and I'd like to know where it has been proven true.

 

 

 

[Gotham Kid]

Comic book fanatic's prized collection to fetch a staggering $3million at auction

 

Excerpt from the article:

 

'The stories I could tell you of meeting at diners and post offices in Northern New Jersey, at office buildings and street corners in New York City to obtain that missing issue or coveted upgrade would blow your mind.

 

'My favourite has to be the 9.8 X-Men first edition. I love that whole run of comics and to own one in such perfect condition is rare.

 

'I sincerely hope the collectors who buy some of my books can enjoy them even half as much as I have.'

 

This whole thing makes me want to vomit up a fortnight's worth of dinner.

 

He paid for the books with the money stolen from an 84 year old grand-mother, for fekk's sake.

 

I've asked this before.

 

Has this been proven? I thought the clients were paid back. Otherwise, he would have been in jail for theft or would have a judgement against him and he will need to pay it back.

 

I'm not defending the guy at all. However, when I see such blanket statements like this FT and so far no one has produced evidence that this is a fact...I want to know more information before forming a conclusion.

 

Do you have a link or somewhere it says or proves he stole the money from his clients, bought comics with it, never paid the money back and is now profiting from it?

 

It's a huge accusation and I'd like to know where it has been proven true.

 

 

 

I believe this was mentioned before... stolen, not so.... misappropriated, definitely.

[WEBHEAD]