Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[supapimp]

After multiple press/ subs and possible micro trim. It's possible.

 

i don't think DS would do that to books in his own personal collection.

[Spiderphill]

Did schmell keep the ASM or were they sold years ago? I don't get how this is the best marvel super hero collection if he let them go long ago.

[red rocks-migration]

In fact, the Federal Reserve should just print $10 million and give it to Doug and put this in the Library of Congress. Email your senator!

[revat]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

The entire collection will be in the July Signature auction. We are not "taking offers".

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply or infer that HA was TAKING offers, just that it certainly wouldn't surprise me that some people were MAKING offers on the whole collection.

 

ON the other hand, it is my personal opinion that if someone called up Doug (who at this point appears to have questionable moral standing) and offered him say triple his high-end expectation for the auction, it may be enough incentive to break the contract and pay off HA for Doug's breaching the contract. (speaking for no one else, I would be VERY tempted to do so if it meant MILLIONS more for me)

 

All kinds of people/companies break contracts all the time because something more lucrative comes along. If they compensate the aggrieved party for damages according to terms of the contract in place, it is quite understandable (maybe not 'right', but justifiable from a financial position).

[Bronty]

that's nice but considering heritage is posting scans and as a result no doubt has the books in their possession, that's not going to happen

[JazzMan]

He's probably cashing in to cover his Facebook losses from the IPO....

[esquirecomics]

These books are incredibly special. Doug is a very friendly guy and I enjoy talking comics with him. He paid a high price for his past transgressions and does not deserve to be permanently ostracized from this community because his sanctions in the legal profession are a matter of public record. Enjoy these books, this auction, and the great things that have been happening in our hobby.

 

Actually, if he'd learned from his legal transgressions and not continued being a shyster in the comics arena, there'd be a lot more sympathy for him.

 

I'm not apologizing for Doug. I'm just of the opinion that its senseless to question his reasoning for consigning his books to Heritage. I also find it slightly ridiculous that there is such extreme hostility toward the books themselves (with people refusing to bid on, or even watch, the auction) because of the character history of the consignor. These books are arguably the finest examples in existence. Once sold and resold, should the books be avoided and ignored because Doug once owned them? Should we ignore every book previously sold on Pedigree's site because they were once sold through Doug's company? It just makes no sense. This is a hobby about collecting funny books, and some of the comments in this thread just seem to miss the mark.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you on some of what you wrote my good friend and esteemed colleague. I am not making this about Doug per se at all but rather commenting generally regarding the premise of your sentiment.

 

When there is a seller who has a particular history surrounding them that is negative, whether because of something they might have done or suspected of having done, or just simply because they have a negative attitude that people don't like, there is absolutely no reason why prospective buyers should not steer clear of the books/items they are selling.

 

It is not about hostility towards the specific books, but about who derives the benefit from the actual sale. Once the books get past that particular owner there is no reason to believe the books will be considered tainted (assuming the history of what might have been physically done to the books is something a buyer is not concerned about).

 

There are a number of dealers/sellers I will never purchase from (again, I am not making any comment about Doug) given their history of fraud or suspected fraud or just simply because I think they are a jerk. My issue is not with the book, but with the person whose profits I do not want to contribute to. If I do not take such a stand on principle at least, then why bother having any type of ethics or standards to strive for.

 

In any event, you're still my bud.

 

WHOA!!!!!

 

This comics general buddy. We will not tolerate respectful, thought out, calm arguments from anyone.

You may not voice your opinion again, until your pitch fork is raised and your torch is lit. Also, you forgot a emotion filled attack at ones character and a failed attempt at a coy comment that you think only yourself and the elite few will catch and find humor in.

 

I am offended by the class and respect your opinon had on me.

 

 

That's why I don't post very often in the General Section any longer.

[500Club]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

The entire collection will be in the July Signature auction. We are not "taking offers".

PM sent.

[esquirecomics]

These books are incredibly special. Doug is a very friendly guy and I enjoy talking comics with him. He paid a high price for his past transgressions and does not deserve to be permanently ostracized from this community because his sanctions in the legal profession are a matter of public record. Enjoy these books, this auction, and the great things that have been happening in our hobby.

 

Actually, if he'd learned from his legal transgressions and not continued being a shyster in the comics arena, there'd be a lot more sympathy for him.

 

I'm not apologizing for Doug. I'm just of the opinion that its senseless to question his reasoning for consigning his books to Heritage. I also find it slightly ridiculous that there is such extreme hostility toward the books themselves (with people refusing to bid on, or even watch, the auction) because of the character history of the consignor. These books are arguably the finest examples in existence. Once sold and resold, should the books be avoided and ignored because Doug once owned them? Should we ignore every book previously sold on Pedigree's site because they were once sold through Doug's company? It just makes no sense. This is a hobby about collecting funny books, and some of the comments in this thread just seem to miss the mark.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you on some of what you wrote my good friend and esteemed colleague. I am not making this about Doug per se at all but rather commenting generally regarding the premise of your sentiment.

 

When there is a seller who has a particular history surrounding them that is negative, whether because of something they might have done or suspected of having done, or just simply because they have a negative attitude that people don't like, there is absolutely no reason why prospective buyers should not steer clear of the books/items they are selling.

 

It is not about hostility towards the specific books, but about who derives the benefit from the actual sale. Once the books get past that particular owner there is no reason to believe the books will be considered tainted (assuming the history of what might have been physically done to the books is something a buyer is not concerned about).

 

There are a number of dealers/sellers I will never purchase from (again, I am not making any comment about Doug) given their history of fraud or suspected fraud or just simply because I think they are a jerk. My issue is not with the book, but with the person whose profits I do not want to contribute to. If I do not take such a stand on principle at least, then why bother having any type of ethics or standards to strive for.

 

In any event, you're still my bud.

 

Mark, I don't believe (and I hope nobody here believes) that a person lacks ethics merely because they choose to bid on these books with knowledge of the consignor's past. And yes, we are still buds and I owe you a phone call.

 

The basic point I was making is if you have an issue with a seller that goes to the heart of your own ethics or principles, whatever those may be, then it is entirely appropriate - indeed even laudable - that you decline to do any direct business with them so that they do not profit from you. For me personally, no comic book, no matter how much I desire it, will compel me to do business with someone I have serious issues with, particularly on an ethical level.

 

That said, I would say I wouldn't buy from the devil but I actually might b/c I don't have anything against the devil per se. In fact, at least he is open and honest enough to reveal who he is unlike certain comic book sellers.

 

Let's talk today after I receive the forthcoming letter mentioned in that e-mail.

[gyro-1]

SNIPED

 

nah the deals been done, I asked JUST KIDDING. but seriously, Heritage won't let it go now, because of the advertising value to them. Heritage wouldn't agree now to do a private sale and it looks like Doug has an agreement (contract) to sell now. Of course, Doug could just break his word (agreement) if he can make more $$$ and settle with HA for say $200k for their trouble.

If I remember they get you to sign a contract ? I think HA has the control after the legal document is signed ?

 

[sborock]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

The entire collection will be in the July Signature auction. We are not "taking offers".

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply or infer that HA was TAKING offers, just that it certainly wouldn't surprise me that some people were MAKING offers on the whole collection.

 

ON the other hand, it is my personal opinion that if someone called up Doug (who at this point appears to have questionable moral standing) and offered him say triple his high-end expectation for the auction, it may be enough incentive to break the contract and pay off HA for Doug's breaching the contract. (speaking for no one else, I would be VERY tempted to do so if it meant MILLIONS more for me)

 

All kinds of people/companies break contracts all the time because something more lucrative comes along. If they compensate the aggrieved party for damages according to terms of the contract in place, it is quite understandable (maybe not 'right', but justifiable from a financial position).

 

Got ya! (thumbs u

That said, I think Doug will do just fine. We see crazy prices in auction from all auction sites every week. I also don't know anyone that wants to over pay for the collection as a whole, so I would say we are safe from that happening.

[lou_fine]

Exactly, the stress might cause spine ticks.

 

Doug's books being auctioned off of Heritage will sell high. When the new owners try to re-sell, they will sell lower. My prediction

 

Well, this is already pretty much a given as everybody knows by now that the Heritage hype machine will always maximize the dollars realized on their featured collection auctions.

 

This was quite evident with their recent Billy Wright books which generally could not hit the same dollars on the second go round. This has happened time amd time again with the big hyped collections from Heritage.

 

why are people surprised that after paying top $ when you turn around and try to flip them within months you are gonna get your azz handed to you? this isn't HA's fault.

 

I never implied at all that any of this was Heritage's fault since their only goal should simply be to achieve the highest possible price for the consignor. They are not in the business of ensuring smooth steady upwards movement in comic book prices, as this is more than adequately being handled by Bob Overstreet.

 

Nobody is surpised at falling prices after the big hype, except possibly for Mitch. We are just saying that if you don't want to pay top dollar for a book, then avoid the big hyped auctions and simply pick up the exact same books later for a big discount. That's assuming of course, that the books do come back on the market which is not too much of a stretch, as many of the guys who chase after highest graded copies seems more closer to being a day trader of comics as opposed to being a true collector of comics.

[supapimp]

obviously the keys and pedigrees will do outstanding, the regular common issues? deals to be had.

[lou_fine]

I think the quality of the 678 books being sold by doug speak for themselves, if you are a collector...this is it....put your money where you mouth is...it anit gonna get any better than this.....marvel wise

 

Yeah, Doug by far has the best CGC silver age superhero collection on Earth. I'm sure whoever is #2 on the registry is happy... saying "whew.. finally"

Doug has the best CGC silver age superhero collection on Earth that`s in the Registry.

 

But it`s not the best CGC silver age superhero collection on Earth.

 

That would belong to Brulato. And BTW, fellow boardie Tempus Fugitivus is ranked #1 in the registry.

 

Tom might indeed own the best CGC graded SA superhero collection on Earth.

 

But it's not necessarily the best SA superhero collection in the world.

[VintageComics]

I never implied at all that any of this was Heritage's fault since their only goal should simply be to achieve the highest possible price for the consignor. They are not in the business of ensuring smooth steady upwards movement in comic book prices, as this is more than adequately being handled by Bob Overstreet.

 

Nobody is surpised at falling prices after the big hype, except possibly for Mitch. We are just saying that if you don't want to pay top dollar for a book, then avoid the big hyped auctions and simply pick up the exact same books later for a big discount. That's assuming of course, that the books do come back on the market which is not too much of a stretch, as many of the guys who chase after highest graded copies seems more closer to being a day trader of comics as opposed to being a true collector of comics.

 

I think that assuming it's just hype that sells the books the first time around is a faulty assumption.

 

The most important thing to remember is that you are removing a bidder because now the winner of the book is selling. The psychology of a new potential buyer could be to tread carefully, much like when an eBay deal doesn't go through on a comic: first thought that crosses my mind is "why is the book back up for sale? What's wrong with it?

 

You are also often changing venues. Time of the year or day can make a difference.

 

So many variables...and you fail to mention that many books that have come back to market have fetched the same or more as well.

 

It's not always a random drop in price.

 

 

[Transplant]

Not directed to lou_fine, but the stupid in this thread is building quickly.

[drbanner]

I saw several big dollar Twin Cities books that just sold for half or less then their original HA hammer prices (when you factor in the commission) in this C-link auction.

 

I don't know who the consignor(s) was/were, or even if they were the same person who bought the books originally, but that's a pretty steep decline from one year to another.

Same thing happened with a bunch of the Billy Wright GA books, despite the hype-machine that is Mmehdy pronouncing them the greatest investment since tulip bulbs. It's like when a legendary coach leaves/retires - you don't want to be the guy that follows the legend, you wanna be the guy that follows the guy that follows the legend. (thumbs u

 

Similarly, or not, I'm just hoping to pick up some of the detritus from the upgraders downgraders upgraders downgrades.

Matt Doherty?

I meet you a Matt Doherty, and raise you a Ron Zook!

[esquirecomics]

 

That would make the Green River books untouchable, right?

 

Is the green river killer, consigning them?

 

Happy Birthday:)

 

I'm just saying they would be untouchable if the previous owners conduct were taken into account.

 

To take that one step further, should dealers refuse to setup at (and buyers refuse to patronize) the Pittsburgh Convention because they would be financially supporting Michael George? Where does one draw the line?

 

I'm not addressing the particular books but only who happens to be selling them.

 

But as far as the general question above, I can tell you that I won't go to Redskins games, enjoy Six Flags or eat at Johnny Rockets any longer because Dan Snyder owns them all. I don't want anything I do to help him make a $1.

 

No different with certain comic book sellers.

[VintageComics]

Not directed to lou_fine, but the stupid in this thread is building quickly.

 

That's discrimination.

 

 

[lou_fine]

What puzzles me is way he is auctioning everything at once? If it were me I would break all the runs up into separate auctions over a years span. For example in the July Heritage auction he should have just put his Avengers run only in that auction. I think he is without a doubt flooding the market in his move to sell everything at once.

 

I wouldn't think he needs the money that bad, but maybe he does.......

 

Either way IMO a very bad move to sell it all at once.

 

Recent history suggests otherwise. The collections featured in the last couple of Heritage Signature Auctions have done extremely well by being offered all at once. It was even pointed out earlier in this thread that many of the Twin Cities books are fetching alot less at scattered re-auctions than they did when first brought to market all at once by Heritage.

 

I seriously doubt few if any of the early ultra high grade SA Mavels that Doug is offering will sell for a bargain strike price.

 

Yes, looking at some of the recent auction results, I would agree with your opinion. (thumbs u

 

For example, just take a look at the Church run of Thrilling Comics which went for astonomical prices during the last CC auction. This is normally a third-tier title at best and would be lucky to see a mutiple to guide at the best of times.