Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[Mmehdy]

Mitch is the King of tickets

 

And the King of hype

 

 

I think you confuse hype with LOVE and RESPECT

 

Lets get one thing straight here Mark, I am not in the comic collecting art hobby for money. I have not owned a store since the 1980's. I would not be in for over 50 years if I did not love comic book art, comics and related materials as well as comic strip art.

 

I wish things could go back to the 1970's with not restoration, no cgc and not a million people all over the world collecting comic books. You have to take the good with the bad, fanboys are in and they were not in the past.

 

Restoration is sore point for me. I wish I could feel differently but to me it means greed. I know, not all the time, nothing ever is. I know folks need to make a living, so be it. But I do not have to like or love it.

 

I might sound like a cheerleader, watching the daily grosses of avengers, cheering on auctions, but folks this is for me at least the most exciting time of my 50 years of comic book collecting, especially last year when action 1 broke a million dollars.

 

That is a far cry from my 10K prediction back in the early 70's but somehow I feel a little hope that it made a difference many years later.

 

I am on the board and posting to express my amazement that comic book fandom has really grown up and hope I can add something to that. To me "blue books" are as close as you can get to the 1970's and that is why I like them so much.

[comicdonna]

Mitch is the King of tickets

 

And the King of hype

 

 

I think you confuse hype with LOVE and RESPECT

 

Lets get one thing straight here Mark, I am not in the comic collecting art hobby for money. I have not owned a store since the 1980's. I would not be in for over 50 years if I did not love comic book art, comics and related materials as well as comic strip art.

 

I wish things could go back to the 1970's with not restoration, no cgc and not a million people all over the world collecting comic books. You have to take the good with the bad, fanboys are in and they were not in the past.

 

Restoration is sore point for me. I wish I could feel differently but to me it means greed. I know, not all the time, nothing ever is. I know folks need to make a living, so be it. But I do not have to like or love it.

 

I might sound like a cheerleader, watching the daily grosses of avengers, cheering on auctions, but folks this is for me at least the most exciting time of my 50 years of comic book collecting, especially last year when action 1 broke a million dollars.

 

That is a far cry from my 10K prediction back in the early 70's but somehow I feel a little hope that it made a difference many years later.

 

I am on the board and posting to express my amazement that comic book fandom has really grown up and hope I can add something to that. To me "blue books" are as close as you can get to the 1970's and that is why I like them so much.

Are you saying restoration wasn't practiced in the 70's?

[Mmehdy]

I would say in the very early golden age say 1971,1972 NO. To me going to some of the first comic book conventions was just plain unforgetable. Seeing bruce hamiliton in 1972 at sdcc selling cap 1 for 250 bucks and thinking at that time...that is a lot of money. As prices and demand went up.......the "snakes" came in. Not just restoration, but books being sold as complete that were not, all sorts of stuff.

 

Remember that good used to be 25% of mint and fine was 50% of mint (bob overstreet) in the early days as a general rule. In the old days people would bring there collection to the convention and you could thumb thru there books...Larry Bigman and his dad was a major one.

[Larryw7]

Mitch is the King of tickets

 

And the King of hype

 

 

I think you confuse hype with LOVE and RESPECT

 

 

[Mark 1]

Mitch is the King of tickets

 

And the King of hype

 

 

I think you confuse hype with LOVE and RESPECT

 

Lets get one thing straight here Mark, I am not in the comic collecting art hobby for money. I have not owned a store since the 1980's. I would not be in for over 50 years if I did not love comic book art, comics and related materials as well as comic strip art.

 

I wish things could go back to the 1970's with not restoration, no cgc and not a million people all over the world collecting comic books. You have to take the good with the bad, fanboys are in and they were not in the past.

 

Restoration is sore point for me. I wish I could feel differently but to me it means greed. I know, not all the time, nothing ever is. I know folks need to make a living, so be it. But I do not have to like or love it.

 

I might sound like a cheerleader, watching the daily grosses of avengers, cheering on auctions, but folks this is for me at least the most exciting time of my 50 years of comic book collecting, especially last year when action 1 broke a million dollars.

 

That is a far cry from my 10K prediction back in the early 70's but somehow I feel a little hope that it made a difference many years later.

 

I am on the board and posting to express my amazement that comic book fandom has really grown up and hope I can add something to that. To me "blue books" are as close as you can get to the 1970's and that is why I like them so much.

 

I certainly appreciate your passion for the hobby. I just wish you went about it in a way that didn't seem like it was all about the money and hyping things up like PT Barnum. The predictions just get on my nerves.

 

I also don't agree with your views on restored comics. Pro restoration was not started with intent to deceive. That's my opinion

 

 

[mrmyst]

Mitch is the King of tickets

 

And the King of hype

 

 

I think you confuse hype with LOVE and RESPECT

 

Lets get one thing straight here Mark, I am not in the comic collecting art hobby for money. I have not owned a store since the 1980's. I would not be in for over 50 years if I did not love comic book art, comics and related materials as well as comic strip art.

 

I wish things could go back to the 1970's with not restoration, no cgc and not a million people all over the world collecting comic books. You have to take the good with the bad, fanboys are in and they were not in the past.

 

Restoration is sore point for me. I wish I could feel differently but to me it means greed. I know, not all the time, nothing ever is. I know folks need to make a living, so be it. But I do not have to like or love it.

 

I might sound like a cheerleader, watching the daily grosses of avengers, cheering on auctions, but folks this is for me at least the most exciting time of my 50 years of comic book collecting, especially last year when action 1 broke a million dollars.

 

That is a far cry from my 10K prediction back in the early 70's but somehow I feel a little hope that it made a difference many years later.

 

I am on the board and posting to express my amazement that comic book fandom has really grown up and hope I can add something to that. To me "blue books" are as close as you can get to the 1970's and that is why I like them so much.

Are you saying restoration wasn't practiced in the 70's?

 

Pop Hollinger!!

[mrmyst]

I guess that was the 60s...

[Dick Pontoon]

Okay kids, I'm about to see what Oscar and Felix are up to, or maybe Dinah Shore. Maybe I'll check back before Jack Benny comes on.

[bluechip]

The restorers are in the business to make money and it is a free country to do that. I can remember when the restoration folks first came out of the woodwork. It not to restore the books to make the comic book world a better place.,, it was the promise of higher grades and more money upon resale. Greed and money destroyed a lot of great ga comic

Books which as it ended up would of been more vallueable had that not been restored in the first place.

 

Yea, the comic book folks you mentioned above do restoration out of the goodness of their hearts. Dude, who do think you ate kidding here .

 

Now this whole restoration mess has a happy ending, if you restore and get caught in your cgc submission you are done for price wise and so justice is served.

The price of pure blue protects futher hacking , repairing or destroying key golden age. Yes there are a few exceptions to the, but very very few.

 

That is totally disingenuous. And it would be, even if the assignment of purple labels was being done in ways that are completely objective (or, for that matter, if it were even possbile to do so)

 

If the goal is to IDENTIFY restoration, all the label has to do to identify restoration is to use words to describe what was done.

 

But you are saying flat out the goal is to MANIPULATE THE VALUE.

 

If that's the reason, or if it's for any reason except to identify the condition or what the defects are, it is completely and utterly inappropriate.

 

And, considering how many books have actually been damaged in the pursuit of a blue label (ripping away color touched areas, using corrosive tape instead of tear seals, tearing books apart to sell them page by page instead of using them for restoration) and -- even more so -- considering how other manipulations are accepted and even how (according to you) trimming shouldn't matter in some high profile books, even if it does in others, and how the assignment of blue versus purple labels has not been done consistently (except where consistency concerned which collections, individuals or high profile books got preferential treatment), if you are correct, and this is being done with the deliberate goal of devaluing property, it could even be actionable in several states. So, before you declare on CGC's board what CGC's express and deliberate purpose is with the purple label, perhaps you should get CGC's official statement as to whether that is their express goal.

[Mmehdy]

The restorers are in the business to make money and it is a free country to do that. I can remember when the restoration folks first came out of the woodwork. It not to restore the books to make the comic book world a better place.,, it was the promise of higher grades and more money upon resale. Greed and money destroyed a lot of great ga comic

Books which as it ended up would of been more vallueable had that not been restored in the first place.

 

Yea, the comic book folks you mentioned above do restoration out of the goodness of their hearts. Dude, who do think you ate kidding here .

 

Now this whole restoration mess has a happy ending, if you restore and get caught in your cgc submission you are done for price wise and so justice is served.

The price of pure blue protects futher hacking , repairing or destroying key golden age. Yes there are a few exceptions to the, but very very few.

 

That is totally disingenuous. And it would be, even if the assignment of purple labels was being done in ways that are completely objective (or, for that matter, if it were even possbile to do so)

 

If the goal is to IDENTIFY restoration, all the label has to do to identify restoration is to use words to describe what was done.

 

But you are saying flat out the goal is to MANIPULATE THE VALUE.

 

If that's the reason, or if it's for any reason except to identify the condition or what the defects are, it is completely and utterly inappropriate.

 

And, considering how many books have actually been damaged in the pursuit of a blue label (ripping away color touched areas, using corrosive tape instead of tear seals, tearing books apart to sell them page by page instead of using them for restoration) and -- even more so -- considering how the assignment of blue versus purple labels has not been done consistently (except where consistency concerned which collections, individuals or high profile books got preferential treatment), if you are correct, and this is being done with the deliberate goal of devaluing property, it would be actionable, especially since it concerns behavior in many different states. So, perhaps you want to get CGC's official statement as to whether that is their express goal, before you go making any sweeping assessments as the true and proper purpose of purple labels.

 

The value is determined by the demand, the demand for blue if greater than the demand for purple, similar if you gave someone the choice of a RR vs chevy.

 

Let say BC, that they go with one label, you still are gonna have problems with how much to downgrade the book if it is repaired or as the restorer's say " restored. I like repair much better as it is the reality call. Kind of "defense" is called for the military.

[bluechip]

The restorers are in the business to make money and it is a free country to do that. I can remember when the restoration folks first came out of the woodwork. It not to restore the books to make the comic book world a better place.,, it was the promise of higher grades and more money upon resale. Greed and money destroyed a lot of great ga comic

Books which as it ended up would of been more vallueable had that not been restored in the first place.

 

Yea, the comic book folks you mentioned above do restoration out of the goodness of their hearts. Dude, who do think you ate kidding here .

 

Now this whole restoration mess has a happy ending, if you restore and get caught in your cgc submission you are done for price wise and so justice is served.

The price of pure blue protects futher hacking , repairing or destroying key golden age. Yes there are a few exceptions to the, but very very few.

 

That is totally disingenuous. And it would be, even if the assignment of purple labels was being done in ways that are completely objective (or, for that matter, if it were even possbile to do so)

 

If the goal is to IDENTIFY restoration, all the label has to do to identify restoration is to use words to describe what was done.

 

But you are saying flat out the goal is to MANIPULATE THE VALUE.

 

If that's the reason, or if it's for any reason except to identify the condition or what the defects are, it is completely and utterly inappropriate.

 

And, considering how many books have actually been damaged in the pursuit of a blue label (ripping away color touched areas, using corrosive tape instead of tear seals, tearing books apart to sell them page by page instead of using them for restoration) and -- even more so -- considering how the assignment of blue versus purple labels has not been done consistently (except where consistency concerned which collections, individuals or high profile books got preferential treatment), if you are correct, and this is being done with the deliberate goal of devaluing property, it would be actionable, especially since it concerns behavior in many different states. So, perhaps you want to get CGC's official statement as to whether that is their express goal, before you go making any sweeping assessments as the true and proper purpose of purple labels.

 

The value is determined by the demand, the demand for blue if greater than the demand for purple, similar if you gave someone the choice of a RR vs chevy.

 

Let say BC, that they go with one label, you still are gonna have problems with how much to downgrade the book if it is repaired or as the restorer's say " restored. I like repair much better as it is the reality call. Kind of "defense" is called for the military.

 

The question is whether the demand has been manipulated and/or whether actions that altered the value were done with an intent to do so, and/or whether that intent involved any personal gain, and/or whether actions that impacted value were done consistently or inconsistently (and if done inconsistently, who benefitted)

 

You have gone so far as to say that the answer to several of those questions aren't the answers they should be.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mmehdy]

BC- I do not have know for sue...opps I mean for sure, as I have no stake in the CGC or any other dealer like DS. But from the evidence it appears what you are asking has probably happened. The real issue is how much, who, where and when. That is a lot of questions. You add a few auction houses to the list( masto or whoever was shut down) that are out of business to price questions you have addressed. They are very tough questions to answer. I wish I could answer all your questions. Being in the comic book world for 50 years...I have seen worse and just about everything. How can it be worse...there used to be dealer who would sell you books in the early early 70's and have his friend or asso steal them back.....just some amazing stuff in the good old early days. That does not make the actions you described above as anything less.

 

I feel your anger BC...I am 100% against it now, in the past or forever.

 

 

I want just as bad as you, for the comic book world to be a fair one. It is good for us and the business, and the long run if it But we live in an imperfect world......forget about blue, green or purple....fair is fair and there is not getting around that.

 

Do you have any suggestions to prevent that from occuring in the future.

[lou_fine]

The best solution would be to remove the damnation labels on all books, use words to describe what damage has been done, and leave the mind reading to the the buyer.

 

 

makes alot of sense to me

 

Unfortunately, there is absolutely no chance of this ever happening anytime soon.

 

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Everybody screamed that the elimination of the PLOD and the implementation of a 10-point rating system was nothing more than an attempt to foist restored books onto an unsuspecting marketplace. For the life of me, I could not understand the argument put forth that collectors would no longer be able to differentiate an unrestored book with a restoration rating of 0, versus an extensively restored book with a restoration rating of 10, just because both books were sitting in a blue slab.

 

This is tantamount to saying that CGC should eliminate the 10-point grading system because collectors would not be sophiscated enough to differentiate betweeen a Poor book with a CGC grade of 0.5 from a Gem Mint book with a CGC grade of 10.0, just because both of them were sitting in a blue slab.

[fantastic_four]

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Whoa I missed this, really? Anyone have a link?

[VintageComics]

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Whoa I missed this, really? Anyone have a link?

 

For the record, I was not vehemently dead set against it.

 

[fantastic_four]

Yea it sounds like a good idea to me. Sorry I missed that debate, I would've been ALL over that topic.

[tth2]

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Whoa I missed this, really? Anyone have a link?

 

For the record, I was not vehemently dead set against it.

 

For the record, I was.

[comicdonna]

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Whoa I missed this, really? Anyone have a link?

 

For the record, I was not vehemently dead set against it.

 

For the record, I was.

I was too!

[lou_fine]

As we all know, CGC proposed eliminating the use of the multi-colour labels and replacing it with a formal 10-point restoration rating system several years ago. Virtually all the board members were so vehemently dead set against the idea that CGC dropped it instantly like a rock.

 

Whoa I missed this, really? Anyone have a link?

 

For the record, I was not vehemently dead set against it.

 

For the record, I was.

 

Why, is it because:

 

1) You could end up buying a restored book thinking it was unrestored;

2) Restored books would end up on a level playing field with unrestored books;

3) Restored books would be judged and valued by the type and extent of restoration, instead of by the colour of the label;

4) Collectors would end up learning about the intricacies of restoration instead of focusing only on the graded condition of a book;

5) Collectors might end up naively thinking there was some value and legitimancy in restored books, when we all know they are worth less than soiled toilet paper;

6) Value of restored books might increase which could decrease the value of unrestored books;

7) Bargain hunters would no longer be able to purchase beautiful looking books at drop dead bottom feeder prices;

8) GA books currently sitting in blue slabs with minor restoration comments could end up getting a 2 on the restoration rating system;

9) Pressed books if they were identified could possibly end up getting a token 1 on the restoration rating scale;

10) If Point 9 became true, this could end up being the death knell for the pressing industry and the old CPR game;

11) If Point 10 became true, then I would be back spending big time money on comic books again and my beautiful wife would not be amused in the slightest; or

12) Unfathomable to even think of considering any proposal whereby Point 9 could possibly come into play, which could then have a negative impact on high-end collections, including possibly my own and everybody else's here on the boards.

 

 

A even dozen or did I miss any?

 

 

[DeliBebek]

Dude, who do think you ate kidding here .

Mmehdy, this is where you lost me. You love comics, but you hate written communication. I'm picking one typo out of a thousand because it caught my eye.