Is Robojo REALLY any different than some dealers?

[sufunk]

How do you guys feel about this example?

A friend who has a LCS had someone walk in the door with an Action #1. Guy knows its valuable but isn't sure exactly what its worth. This is at the time CGC was located in New Jersey. As there was a major convention coming up in NYC, my friend takes the day off and goes to Jersey for a one day walk thru service.

book comes back a 4.0 PLOD, with small pieces of glue added to spine. Book is sold the first day of the con to a major dealer. On the last day of the show- CGC is doing on-site grading, the dealer shows up at my friends booth and lo and behold the book is now in a Universal label, only its now a 3.5.

Does the new owner have an obligation to tell people this book was once in a PLOD? If not, why not? The book went from having a $35,000 value to having almost double that.

 

The fact that you're asking these questions tells me to NEVER under any circumstances buy anything from you since god knows what you are hiding from me about the book to squeeze a few more $$$'s out of me!

[Jeffro.]

Up until a website is devoted to showing the prices of all books sold in each of yours or anyone's else's grades other than CGC, upping the grade CGC gave is screwing over the buyer IMO.

 

Absolute, unquestioned faith in the CGC grade at work here. (and yes, I understand your point. It's this absolute faith in the CGC grade that befuddles me)

 

What if I buy a 9.2 graded comic, resub it with no pressing and it comes back as a 9.4? Did CGC just screw over the former owner by not getting it "right" the first time? And who is to say what is right given the subjective nature of grading. CGC seems to have a good process with multiple graders but even with that system in place, mistakes still get made.

 

As Shad said, even CGC themselves can't guarantee the same grade on straight resub.

 

And let's not even get into the whole waxing and waning of strict vs lax grading that seems to happen from time to time.

 

I've never sold a cracked out book yet but if I did I would include the label as reference. However, I would grade the book myself and if it warranted a higher grade, you bet I'd assign it the higher grade.

[sufunk]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

[sufunk]

Shad, Jeffro, me or Oak can say whatever we want but Let's be honest here, no one is cracking slabs and selling them at a higher grade because they are so generous that they want everyone to be touched by the hand of the god of grading and make our meaningless lives complete by getting a small piece of their gift and expertise. And it's not because they are some freedom fighter out to right all the wrongs in the world starting with CGC making a .2-.4 mistake on some comic books.

 

They're doing it because they can take a book that CGC and gpa have determined is worth $50 and now sell it for $150 (thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

In one sense, yeah it's sad. In another sense it's pretty sweet. The notion is that 3rd party grading levels the playing field, and takes the guesswork out of buying comics. As long as their grades are relatively close to "the truth," there's a value in treating their word as law. In a marketplace, you need to have a standard that everyone agrees on. If people were free to decide for themselves what a dollar is worth, our markets would be a lot less reliable (it's not a perfect analogy, but you get my point). More than a single 3rd party grading service would be great, but as it stands today, we ain't there yet.

 

Personally, I try to buy comics based on my own grades. I'm not a slab kinda guy, and I pretty much crack every one I get (my AF 15 is staying where it is). But I can see the benefits of having an industry standard.

 

Either way though, I'm not buying from robojo (or Trippy I guess).

[Jeffro.]

Personally, I try to buy comics based on my own grades. I'm not a slab kinda guy, and I pretty much crack every one I get (my AF 15 is staying where it is). But I can see the benefits of having an industry standard.

 

I can also understand the benefits of having an industry standard. The problem here is that the standard in this case is the only standard. It's a testiment to CGC I guess that the only standard has become the industry standard. That says a lot about the faith people have in their company.

 

Or maybe it means that they simply have no other choice but to have faith in the only game in town.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

[Speedy-D]

Personally, I try to buy comics based on my own grades. I'm not a slab kinda guy, and I pretty much crack every one I get (my AF 15 is staying where it is). But I can see the benefits of having an industry standard.

 

I can also understand the benefits of having an industry standard. The problem here is that the standard in this case is the only standard. It's a testiment to CGC I guess that the only standard has become the industry standard. That says a lot about the faith people have in their company.

 

Or maybe it means that they simply have no other choice but to have faith in the only game in town.

 

For being a monopoly, I'd say CGC is remarkably reliable & honest. It's this, combined with the fact that there's no other option, that makes them the standard. If people caught the CGC owners buying raw comics on ebay, grading them, then reselling them to their own financial benefit (PGX style), they'd lose their credibility real fast.

[8milemax]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

 

What I find funny is that Sufunk is saying all this about GPA and CGC being the only way to go, but isnt he the one who did a FDQ exit about 6 months ago because he tried CPR on a avengers 4 and it didnt go his way?

[sufunk]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

 

Ok, so what are the other reasons for cracking and raising the grade and not disclosing the previous CGC grade from the buyer?

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

 

Ok, so what are the other reasons for cracking and raising the grade and not disclosing the previous CGC grade from the buyer?

Because it is "now" better than the CGC grade?

[Jeffro.]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

 

Ok, so what are the other reasons for cracking and raising the grade and not disclosing the previous CGC grade from the buyer?

 

Well, one reason would be that you don't agree with the assigned grade.

 

I'm sorry but I don't believe in the be-all and end-all of the CGC grade once it's cracked out. By their own admission, once the slab is removed, the grade is invalidated. No one is under any obligation to disclose the CGC grade. I'm playing devil's advocate here. I would include the label. To me, it's the right thing to do.

 

I bought a slabbed 7.5 copy of GI Combat 123 that looks like, at minimum, a 9.0

I have no idea why CGC assigned it a 7.5. One day, I'll crack it so I can flip through it and look. Since I refuse to pay them for the priviledge of getting the notes, I guess I'll never know why it was given a 7.5

 

However, if after cracking it out and inspecting it, I think it grades higher than 7.5, I'll grade it higher. Who knows, maybe it will grade out lower?

[godquest]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

... my ears are burning...

 

 

Mine Too....

[batman_fan]

How do you guys feel about this example?

A friend who has a LCS had someone walk in the door with an Action #1. Guy knows its valuable but isn't sure exactly what its worth. This is at the time CGC was located in New Jersey. As there was a major convention coming up in NYC, my friend takes the day off and goes to Jersey for a one day walk thru service.

book comes back a 4.0 PLOD, with small pieces of glue added to spine. Book is sold the first day of the con to a major dealer. On the last day of the show- CGC is doing on-site grading, the dealer shows up at my friends booth and lo and behold the book is now in a Universal label, only its now a 3.5.

Does the new owner have an obligation to tell people this book was once in a PLOD? If not, why not? The book went from having a $35,000 value to having almost double that.

 

Are you certain the book didn't just need to have a bindery chip added to make it a blue label.

[sufunk]

I'll put it this way: Say there's a grader out there who is so spot on, he's just right. What he says is true. If he says a comic is a 9.6, that's what it is, God himself would agree.

 

Now, take that 9.6 comic and get it graded by CGC. If it comes back as a CGC 9.2 and you sell it, the buyer, 99% of the time, is going to care more about the CGC grade. That's what it means to be the standard. Until there's real competition for CGC, they will have this power, like it or not.

 

 

Pretty sad because it leads to label chasing and buyers not evaluating a book before buying it. I'm amazed by how much blind faith some collectors put in grades assigned by third party grading services.

 

I have ZERO blind faith in CGC. I have a LOT of blind faith in gpa (thumbs u

 

There's only one reason not to disclose the previous grade and that's to squeeze as much money as possible out of someone. If that's your business model, great for you but I won't be buying from you.

 

You realize gpa isn't absolute and is only a portion of actual sales right?

 

Only one reason eh? You're letting the scumbags of the industry color your views. Yes, some people do that. Some sellers here are only interested in squeezing maximum dollars out of us. They're completely honest and above board but they are definitely only interested in maximum profit. I refuse to buy from them. However, to suggest that the only reason someone does not disclose the previous grade if purely for profit is absurd.

 

Ok, so what are the other reasons for cracking and raising the grade and not disclosing the previous CGC grade from the buyer?

 

Well, one reason would be that you don't agree with the assigned grade.

 

I'm sorry but I don't believe in the be-all and end-all of the CGC grade once it's cracked out. By their own admission, once the slab is removed, the grade is invalidated. No one is under any obligation to disclose the CGC grade. I'm playing devil's advocate here. I would include the label. To me, it's the right thing to do.

 

I bought a slabbed 7.5 copy of GI Combat 123 that looks like, at minimum, a 9.0

I have no idea why CGC assigned it a 7.5. One day, I'll crack it so I can flip through it and look. Since I refuse to pay them for the priviledge of getting the notes, I guess I'll never know why it was given a 7.5

 

However, if after cracking it out and inspecting it, I think it grades higher than 7.5, I'll grade it higher. Who knows, maybe it will grade out lower?

 

I understand all that and agree with you. You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product. I just dont understand why you wouldnt disclose the previous grade. Actually i do understand and dont agree with it.

 

The great dealers youve mentioned i imagine would say something like this "Hey, this was in a 9.2 holder but i think its a 9.4. You know me and my rep and thats what i think and thats what im selling it at". I have ZERO problem with that at all. Other dealers will crack it and hide the label in the trunk of their car and tell a buyer a book is a 9.4 in their opinion without telling them its been subbed 3 times and got a 9.2 each time. That i have a problem with

[sufunk]

How do you guys feel about this example?

A friend who has a LCS had someone walk in the door with an Action #1. Guy knows its valuable but isn't sure exactly what its worth. This is at the time CGC was located in New Jersey. As there was a major convention coming up in NYC, my friend takes the day off and goes to Jersey for a one day walk thru service.

book comes back a 4.0 PLOD, with small pieces of glue added to spine. Book is sold the first day of the con to a major dealer. On the last day of the show- CGC is doing on-site grading, the dealer shows up at my friends booth and lo and behold the book is now in a Universal label, only its now a 3.5.

Does the new owner have an obligation to tell people this book was once in a PLOD? If not, why not? The book went from having a $35,000 value to having almost double that.

 

Are you certain the book didn't just need to have a bindery chip added to make it a blue label.

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product.

That is a LOT of trust in a market that is easily manipulated.

[sufunk]

 

You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product.

That is a LOT of trust in a market that is easily manipulated.

 

True but right now they are the only game in town and they ARE the market. PGX is a complete joke. Until a worthy competitor comes along, CGC's opinion is king when it comes to pricing for the vast majority of people buying slabs. Wouldnt you agree with that?

[Jeffro.]

I understand all that and agree with you. You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product. I just dont understand why you wouldnt disclose the previous grade. Actually i do understand and dont agree with it.

 

If I've misread you, then I apologize.

 

Shall we talk about your admitted blind faith in gpa now?

 

 

 

 

[sufunk]

I understand all that and agree with you. You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product. I just dont understand why you wouldnt disclose the previous grade. Actually i do understand and dont agree with it.

 

If I've misread you, then I apologize.

 

Shall we talk about your admitted blind faith in gpa now?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, lets!!!