Is Robojo REALLY any different than some dealers?

[sufunk]

I swear if I said the sky was blue today,I would have 50 people arguing that it was a different color all together.

 

A lot of absolutes going on in this thread and not much ability to see other sides of the debate.

 

I'm willing to see the other side of the debate of someone would answer my question. I e asked like four times for a valid reason other than selling it for much more money why you wouldn't disclose the previous grade. No one seems to have an answer for that

 

For the same reason that a Carfax report on a car from two owners ago is pretty worthless. A raw book deslabbed may not be the same book it was when it was graded. Handling wear could've lowered the grade. Pressing may have raised it. Heck, it might've even been damaged just jostling around in the slab. Regardless, that old CGC grade is pretty irrelevant.

 

I agree on principle that if a seller deslabs a book, he should proactively disclose the CGC grade, even if it's really 100% irrelevant and even if he disagrees with it. I appreciate it when sellers disclose the previous CGC grade (and include the label) with a raw sale, but I don't pay much attention to it, knowing there is absolutely no guarantee the book is going to grade the same. Then there is the Pandora's box of label switching, where an old CGC label can be paired with the wrong raw book in the attempt to put some lipstick on a pig and make a few extra bucks in the process. Don't think it doesn't happen. It does. Again, Caveat Emptor.

 

The Bottom Line is: if you're buying an unslabbed book, don't place any faith in the previous label grade, its not nearly as important as your faith in the person you are dealing with.

 

 

I 100% agree which is why shadroch is one of the VERY few people on the boards I haven't bought from (thumbs u

[sterlingcomics]

Now you're quoting yourself? This thread is a mess.

 

Sorry dude. I hear it's always sunny in Philly.

[Spiderphill]

You do not have to disclose the previous grade but you do have to disclose pressing. You look at the grade given and determine if you agree with what you're about to pay. It's that simple.

[sufunk]

CGC, in fact, encourages anyone who de-slabs a comic to return the label to them, presumably to retain census integrity.

 

If I de-slab a comic, send the label back to CGC, and then sell the comic at a later date, what proof do I have that the comic was ever graded by them in the first place? The label is long gone.

 

What happens in those cases? Do you disclose the former CGC grade that you can't even substantiate?

I would hope you sell it at the grade it was given,not a much higher grade.

 

See? This is what I'm talking about. This is the absolute faith in the CGC grade at work here. If I cracked a 9.2 and honestly though it was a 9.4, what's wrong with grading it as such? Once cracked out, the CGC grade, by their own admission, is invalidated.

 

Also, you seem to think that CGC always gets it correct. Where's that Action 1 with 1/4th of the cover out that got graded at 2.5? An extreme example perhaps but mistakes do happen.

 

 

 

I can tell you what I would do if I ever sold a comic that I cracked out.

 

I'd include the label.

If I did not agree with the grade, either up or down, I'd note it but in the end I'd assign the grade I felt was correct. I would not necessarily be bound by the now invalidated slabbed grade.

I'd offer a no questions asked return policy if not satisifed.

 

I don't think anyone has any problem with that whatsoever. What people have a problem with is hiding the old label in your closet and acting like it never existed like good ole shady

[VintageComics]

Oh, oh sufunks getting wound up again.

 

 

I recommend Schrodinger's cat for this discussion.

[Jeffro.]

Oh, oh sufunks getting wound up again.

 

We need Mr 'Sees All Sides' in this thread.

[sterlingcomics]

You do not have to disclose the previous grade but you do have to disclose pressing. You look at the grade given and determine if you agree with what you're about to pay. It's that simple.

 

Everyone has their own compass in buying comics. Do your best to navigate the mine field of comic collecting...just remember you are responsible for your transactions! Know thy seller, get recommendations...enjoy your hobby.

[oakman29]

Oh, oh sufunks getting wound up again.

 

We need Mr 'Sees All Sides' in this thread.

[Jeffro.]

I swear if I said the sky was blue today,I would have 50 people arguing that it was a different color all together.

 

A lot of absolutes going on in this thread and not much ability to see other sides of the debate.

 

I'm willing to see the other side of the debate of someone would answer my question. I e asked like four times for a valid reason other than selling it for much more money why you wouldn't disclose the previous grade. No one seems to have an answer for that

 

For the same reason that a Carfax report on a car from two owners ago is pretty worthless. A raw book deslabbed may not be the same book it was when it was graded. Handling wear could've lowered the grade. Pressing may have raised it. Heck, it might've even been damaged just jostling around in the slab. Regardless, that old CGC grade is pretty irrelevant.

 

I agree on principle that if a seller deslabs a book, he should proactively disclose the CGC grade, even if it's really 100% irrelevant and even if he disagrees with it. I appreciate it when sellers disclose the previous CGC grade (and include the label) with a raw sale, but I don't pay much attention to it, knowing there is absolutely no guarantee the book is going to grade the same. Then there is the Pandora's box of label switching, where an old CGC label can be paired with the wrong raw book in the attempt to put some lipstick on a pig and make a few extra bucks in the process. Don't think it doesn't happen. It does. Again, Caveat Emptor.

 

The Bottom Line is: if you're buying an unslabbed book, don't place any faith in the previous label grade, its not nearly as important as your faith in the person you are dealing with.

 

 

Well said. Jive wins the thread as far as I'm concerned.

[sufunk]

Just so I understand, the justification is that CGC is inconsistent not that you can now charge more money for the book? That's the story here? The fact that you can make more money doesn't come into play here correct?

 

Just for and giggles, can I hear the "I've probably lowered the grade more than I've raised it!" line from shad

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

Oh, oh sufunks getting wound up again.

 

 

I recommend Schrodinger's cat for this discussion.

 

Reductio ad absurdum

[shadroch]

 

You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product.

That is a LOT of trust in a market that is easily manipulated.

 

True but right now they are the only game in town and they ARE the market. PGX is a complete joke. Until a worthy competitor comes along, CGC's opinion is king when it comes to pricing for the vast majority of people buying slabs. Wouldnt you agree with that?

 

 

If the book is deslabbed, the person is not buying a slab, are they? If the person wants a slabbed book, they won't buy a raw book, will he? Your entire arguement is circular and a waste of my time. Its why I didn't bother with you when I just sold my pedigree Avengers.

The bottom line is I could get a freshly slabbed book from CGC, deslab it, return it to them with the label and there is zero guarentee that they will grade it the same as they already did. Zero. If you honestly don't realize this, you'd best stick to buying slabbed books and only slabbed books.

 

Oh please! Was that supposed to be a burn or something?!? I'm pretty sure you "didn't bother" since I made it VERY clear the last time this came up that I think the way you do business is exactly what's wrong with this hobby and I wouldn't buy from you anyways

 

Your argument about people buying raw is ridiculous and you know it. They arent necessarily buying raw because they want raws. I'm sure plenty are buyin because you claim it's a 9.6 or whatever and they think they are getting a deal on a HG comic. Little do they know, the book was a 9.2 that you paid a fraction of what you are now asking. That's probably why I never hear your name mentioned when people are talking about the reputable dealers on this board like Bob and Rick. Honestly, I'm trying to remember your name EVER coming up in one of those discussions and can't! Can anyone else??? (thumbs u

 

Just admit what you are doing instead of trying to talk circles. Everyone knows there is no guarantee of getting the same grade. This has nothing to do with anything. The question is why you routinely by your own admission deslab books, hide the original grade from buyers and charge much more than you paid or they are worth. It's pretty simple and clear to most people exactly what your motives are and it sure ain't to right the wrong in the comic world perpetrated by CGC!

 

 

Its funny, as you have never bought anything from me or you would know that I don't put any grades on my books when selling in person. You see a book you like, I give you a price and let you examine the book. You like the book at the price, you buy it. You don't like the book at the price offered, you counter-offer or move on. I've had several transactions on the board where people thought the book I sent them were too high. I've offered each and every one of them the choice of returning the book for a full refund or making me a counter-offer. In almost every case, I've responded to their counter-offer with an even lower offer. Find one person who I ever tried to sell a raw book I called a 9.6, just one person and you can have my Winnepeg Avengers.

The vast majority of my inventory is obtained for pennies on the dollar so I have no reason to have to max out any particular book. Last month- I sold over $4,000 thru various auctions, and made almost 70% profit on them.

As I already stated on more than one occasion, the vast majority of the deslabbed books I sell are sold at a loss, so i have no idea where your accusations come from, but why let facts get in the way of your rantings.

I have not been a Dealer with a big D for almost twenty years. I'm more like a jobber, or middle man- supplying dealers and board members with books for them to sell.

[AtlasFan]

CGC, in fact, encourages anyone who de-slabs a comic to return the label to them, presumably to retain census integrity.

 

If I de-slab a comic, send the label back to CGC, and then sell the comic at a later date, what proof do I have that the comic was ever graded by them in the first place? The label is long gone.

 

What happens in those cases? Do you disclose the former CGC grade that you can't even substantiate?

I would hope you sell it at the grade it was given,not a much higher grade.

 

See? This is what I'm talking about. This is the absolute faith in the CGC grade at work here. If I cracked a 9.2 and honestly though it was a 9.4, what's wrong with grading it as such? Once cracked out, the CGC grade, by their own admission, is invalidated.

 

Also, you seem to think that CGC always gets it correct. Where's that Action 1 with 1/4th of the cover out that got graded at 2.5? An extreme example perhaps but mistakes do happen.

 

 

 

I can tell you what I would do if I ever sold a comic that I cracked out.

 

I'd include the label.

If I did not agree with the grade, either up or down, I'd note it but in the end I'd assign the grade I felt was correct. I would not necessarily be bound by the now invalidated slabbed grade.

I'd offer a no questions asked return policy if not satisifed.

 

You can only do that if:

 

1) You disclose the CGC grade and state your reasons why the grade is a 9.4 and not a 9.2

 

2) Prove that you have, at some point, deslabbed a book, thought the grade was LOWER than CGC's and disclosed it as described in 1).

 

[chrisco37]

A lot of absolutes going on in this thread and not much ability to see other sides of the debate.

 

Just another day in the wonderful world of CG.

[VintageComics]

I have not been a Dealer with a big D for almost twenty years. I'm more like a jobber, or middle man- supplying dealers and board members with books for them to sell.

 

I'd have bought that box of Spidey 300's from you a few years ago.

 

[DeliBebek]

This discussion is really interesting. I prefer to buy raw in the first place. If the book is valued over $100 and I can't see it in person, I will prefer a slabbed copy. I really believe in buying the book.

 

For the sake of argument discussion, it's been said that old label CGC tends to grade higher when resubmitted. Does a seller have an obligation to resubmit if he/she cracks and old-label slab and believes the grade is higher, or does the seller have an obligation to keep track of the original grade and announce it?

[Speedy-D]

 

You keep harping on my blind faith in CGCs grading. thats isnt the case. I dont have faith in CGCs grading over anyone else. I have blind faith in the market CGC has created for their product.

That is a LOT of trust in a market that is easily manipulated.

 

True but right now they are the only game in town and they ARE the market. PGX is a complete joke. Until a worthy competitor comes along, CGC's opinion is king when it comes to pricing for the vast majority of people buying slabs. Wouldnt you agree with that?

 

Well no, technically CGC is king when it comes to grading. Pricing is determined by the market.

 

yes but what i mean is the vast majority of people dont care about what PGX slabs sell for, they care what CGC slabs sell for

 

 

That may hold true for the folks on this Board, but how do you really know that's the position of most people in the hobby?

 

Because the number of eBay listings that say "CGC it" outnumbers the number of listings that say "PGX it" by about a 100 to 1 or more

 

I still haven't heard a valid reason for why you wouldn't disclose the former grade on a cracked book other than the obvious "it'll be harder to sell" at the raised grade price. That's not a good reason in my mind

There are some old school heads in the hobby who just don't cotton to CGC. They haven't bought into the "new system," and they don't like playing the CGC game. So, they don't talk about what the ex-CGC grade was.

 

I'm not saying it's a decent position to take, but it's true for some folk.

[VintageComics]

For the sake of argument discussion, it's been said that old label CGC tends to grade higher when resubmitted.

 

That's a myth. There have been plenty of overgraded and under graded books from the early years. I wouldn't say that as a rule they are under graded.

 

[VintageComics]

There are some old school heads in the hobby who just don't cotton to CGC. They haven't bought into the "new system," and they don't like playing the CGC game. So, they don't talk about what the ex-CGC grade was.

 

I'm not saying it's a decent position to take, but it's true for some folk.

 

Agreed.

 

If the reason for not disclosing a CGC label it to get more money for the book even though you believe the label is correct, it's not ethical but there are plenty of reasons why a CGC label may not be with a book.

 

Plenty of people still crack out comics to read them. I'm betting that many of those labels just end up in the garbage.

 

 

[sufunk]

By your own admission, you routinely crack books and sell them at a higher grade. Those aren't my "rantings", those are your own words not mine. Wether you call it a certain grade or just price it at that higher grade without calling it a 9.4,9.6 or whatever doesn't matter. You are charging the higher grades price. Again, not my words, those are yours. You've said over and over there is no problem with that because of CGCs inconsistency so I don't really understand what you are getting at.

 

Last time we talked about this, you talked about buying a LARGE lot of slabs which you were going to crack and then grade and sell at a later date. Not one or two, a large lot. You're trying to tell me you sold the majority of those at a loss??? If you are selling these cracks books at a loss most times like you claim, why the hell are you cracking them in the 1st place and how have you. It gone bankrupt? I've been in business a long time and you're the 1st person Ive ever met that somehow sells "THE VAST MAJORITY" (your words not mine) at a loss but are still in business and continue doing it.

 

Again, explai. Why you are cracking them them if as you say you sell the vast majority at a loss???