JIMs coming out of the wood work!

[Mr_Positive-migration]

Nope, I'm not above petty sniping. Yup, I'm very jealous that Doug can buy books from me, put them on his site, give them the "illusion" that they are from the "collection" and get higher prices.

 

Well, that's what they call marketing, Bob. Whether the bump in sales from all the buzz is still there six months from now is something that remains to be seen. I mean, you're obviously annoyed....but who at? ..... Doug or the buyers who are buying these former highgradecomics books?

 

But wait...there are also some Pacific Coast books on Pedigree that are actually still pictured on Comiclink's site, (because Josh takes a couple of months to remove sold books), at their original lower prices too. I tracked some of those and in the end they are going for almost the identical prices they left ComicLink at.

 

I also don't think there is any illusion going on for anyone that is paying attention. I think it's been clear from the start that there are plenty of books on the site that were not from "The Collection".

 

As I see it, Doug raised the stakes. His site is fast, easy to manuever through and broken up into interesting categories. He's got some articles on the pedigrees. There is a write up on every book. He hypes every individual book. There is a scan of every book on his site.

 

He decided it was worth taking the trouble to do that. Others, including yourself may not feel it's worth it. But in this age of the impulse purchase, I think it can't hurt. He's simply doing a better job of presenting and marketing the books. And there's nothing stopping any other dealer from doing the same.

 

Here's a quote from David Ogilvy, one of the grandmasters of Madison Avenue Advertising.....

 

"You now have to decide what 'image' you want for your brand. Image means personality. Products, like people, have personalities, and they can make or break them in the market place."

 

Pedigree has a strong image. People aren't going to Doug's site for value as they do yours. Why not simply be satisifed that the books are being sold from Highgrade?

 

Why begrudge him the slight bump up? If anything, it'll raise prices across the board.

[Aman619]

oh, Bobs feelings get hurt pretty easily sometimes, but hes got a point. Hes just got to part his hair differently!! ba-da-bum!

[blazingbob]

If I may reflect, Another dealer put the "tag" of "A" collection on books he was selling on his site. This was because the seller wanted to be "annoymous". To me this was ridiculous since I don't find "accumulation" collections in the same league as "original" owner collections. To me it was like adding lineage to a books history. White Moutain, Found by Jerry Weist, Sold to so and so, sold again to so and so, Purchased by Doug (Add "A" collection to lineage", sold again. Hmmm, will this fit on the label? Do I care that Doug or so and so owned the book. This is the same way I feel about Nicolas Cage books. And to the dealer who put this "A" in his marketing of the books I know he has uncovered some very nice original owner collections. Doug is marketing his "collection" and that "collector" angle. To me the collector thinks they are buying from a "collector". Doug is a fabulous "Accumulator" of books, has been for years but he is now a "dealer" plain and simple. And for those who proclaim the love of his site realize that you are buying from a dealer formerly know as a collector. And yes I was a collector who became a dealer but I was also a dealer in the 70's.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

And for those who proclaim the love of his site realize that you are buying from a dealer formerly know as a collector. And yes I was a collector who became a dealer but I was also a dealer in the 70's.

 

But we love your site too.

[r100comics]

Doug is a fabulous "Accumulator" of books, has been for years but he is now a "dealer" plain and simple.

 

Bob, if those are dealer prices Doug is paying for the (few) books he still needs I have about 5 boxes of CGC for you.

[blazingbob]

I appreciate that

 

Look, when "collectors" call and want to sell me books they tell me so and so will pay more. A "collector" is always perceived to pay more than a "dealer". For years Doug was a very difficult collector to compete against in the market. He gave Dealers "security blankets" and a "No discount attitude" since Doug will pay to get what he wants. Nothing wrong with that but he was notorious for being enamored with a pedigree, getting bored and selling it. I can think of a number of "collections" that Doug loved and discarded. When they were discarded, books that I and a few others wanted were more expensive since Doug was in at the higher price than the "real" market was valuing them at that time. This has been repeated over and over for years, this is not an isolated incident. And let's be very clear on this, Doug is very aggressive on books he wants. What some of those "doug dependent" dealers are doing for their fix is unclear to me at this time but I'm sure some of them must be looking for the "new doug".

[Red Hook]

So Bob,

 

If I can boil down your comments simply, what you are saying is that Doug, in essence, artificially inflated the prices of certain pedigrees because he was willing to pay whatever it took to acquire them?

 

I get that.

 

And then when those books went back into the market, they were overpriced so that you (and I'm not sure whether you are speaking as a dealer or a collector) could not afford them?

 

I think I get that.

 

I'm still unclear about how the prices he is asking on his site right now, effect you that much.....is it that he gobbled up so many pedigree books there aren't that many available to you to supply your customers?

 

Can you explain this as if I were a simpleton, which frankly, I am when it comes to the inside dealings of collectors vs dealers.

 

Brad

[blazingbob]

My last point is that if the same books are "overpriced" on my site how come they are now selling off Doug's for higher prices?

 

Marketing doesn't always sell a book in this business, I generally find that price is the driver most of the time.

[g-man]

maybe customers like the fact that you can bid on his books where as with your site, you have to call or send an email and negotiate?

Also his "new arrivals" section contains a listing of books that have appeared for the past 2-3 weeks and on your site, you have to sometimes search through your cgc inventory to find the new ones in addition to your new book page.

 

In terms of buying the same book for more $$ on doug's site....well maybe they liked the PQ or centering or whatever.....or maybe they just happened to like the book and decided to buy it.

 

I like Doug's site and will continue to buy/sell on it if I can. Comiclink is good too as is Bob's and Ted's site. I like that you can place a bid on Josh's site and Pedigree's site makes it a little better though.

[lou_fine]

Nope, I'm not above petty sniping. Yup, I'm very jealous that Doug can buy books from me, put them on his site, give them the "illusion" that they are from the "collection" and get higher prices.

 

The way I view this situation is that Doug is now basicaly a dealer like any other dealer. His job is to acquire books and resell them at a higher price. The difference between Doug and the other dealers is that he has manage to promote his site to be at the prestigous or high end portion of the market only. Sometimes you can help do this by listing all of your merchandise at relatively high prices compare to everybody else. Lots of buyers are looking to purchase these types of items and not your everyday ordinary items. That is why people will pay more for clothes at a high end shop as opposed to getting similar clothes at a discount shop.

 

I am sure that lots of people have been very jealous of the fact that you have been able to resell their books at substantially higher prices than what they could have sold them for. Now that the tables are turned, I can understand that you are probably a little bit upset. Especially when you thought that you was already charging top-end dollar and leaving nothing else for anybody else (eg. some of those FF's you had sold at the end of last year).

 

Competition is good for the marketplace since it tends to bring out more products even when it does not lower prices. You probably participate in a wider spectrum of the market. Doug has managed to present himself at the narrower high-end only portion of the market and hence is able to ask for higher prices. Buyers may wise up a bit eventually and see that some of his products are not all pure top CGC items and is starting to drift down a bit as he continues to play the game. Only time will time, but Doug is in a pretty sweet spot right now from a image point of view.

[awe4one]

If I may reflect, Another dealer put the "tag" of "A" collection on books he was selling on his site. This was because the seller wanted to be "annoymous". To me this was ridiculous since I don't find "accumulation" collections in the same league as "original" owner collections. To me it was like adding lineage to a books history. White Moutain, Found by Jerry Weist, Sold to so and so, sold again to so and so, Purchased by Doug (Add "A" collection to lineage", sold again. Hmmm, will this fit on the label? Do I care that Doug or so and so owned the book. This is the same way I feel about Nicolas Cage books. And to the dealer who put this "A" in his marketing of the books I know he has uncovered some very nice original owner collections. Doug is marketing his "collection" and that "collector" angle. To me the collector thinks they are buying from a "collector". Doug is a fabulous "Accumulator" of books, has been for years but he is now a "dealer" plain and simple. And for those who proclaim the love of his site realize that you are buying from a dealer formerly know as a collector. And yes I was a collector who became a dealer but I was also a dealer in the 70's.

 

You have to be kidding!

 

I find your view extremely hypocritical based on your attitude in this thread from a year and a half ago.

 

If it was OK to ask premium prices for comics perceived to be from your collection then, why is what Doug's doing now any different?

 

Things a bit different now that you're on the other end?

 

Jim

[g-man]

 

You have to be kidding!

 

I find your view extremely hypocritical based on your attitude in this thread from a year and a half ago.

 

If it was OK to ask premium prices for comics perceived to be from your collection then, why is what Doug's doing now any different?

 

Things a bit different now that you're on the other end?

 

Jim

 

[COI]

If I may reflect, Another dealer put the "tag" of "A" collection on books he was selling on his site. This was because the seller wanted to be "annoymous". To me this was ridiculous since I don't find "accumulation" collections in the same league as "original" owner collections. To me it was like adding lineage to a books history. White Moutain, Found by Jerry Weist, Sold to so and so, sold again to so and so, Purchased by Doug (Add "A" collection to lineage", sold again. Hmmm, will this fit on the label? Do I care that Doug or so and so owned the book. This is the same way I feel about Nicolas Cage books. And to the dealer who put this "A" in his marketing of the books I know he has uncovered some very nice original owner collections. Doug is marketing his "collection" and that "collector" angle. To me the collector thinks they are buying from a "collector". Doug is a fabulous "Accumulator" of books, has been for years but he is now a "dealer" plain and simple. And for those who proclaim the love of his site realize that you are buying from a dealer formerly know as a collector. And yes I was a collector who became a dealer but I was also a dealer in the 70's.

 

You have to be kidding!

 

I find your view extremely hypocritical based on your attitude in this thread from a year and a half ago.

 

If it was OK to ask premium prices for comics perceived to be from your collection then, why is what Doug's doing now any different?

 

Things a bit different now that you're on the other end?

 

Jim

 

 

Thanks Jim. I was looking for that exact thread.

[Aman619]

The way I view this situation is that Doug is now basicaly a dealer like any other dealer. His job is to acquire books and resell them at a higher price.

 

my understanding is that Doug has decided to go into business in comics, his first love and passion. But not as a dealer, but as a middleman a la Josh at Comiclink. The books so far on his site are all (to my understanding) either his multiples or consognments. No one has said (least of all Doug) that he is shopping around for collections to BUY and resell on his site.

 

Bob Storms, on the other hand, owns all but a few of the books he sells on his site, and has been a regular All American comics dealer for 20 years. The rest of the books on his site or on his wall at conventions are a few consignments mostly in answer to the new climate fostered by the Comiclink and Ebay effect of us collectors being finally able to sell DIRECTLY to other collectors with only fees and/or commissions coming oyut of the price.

 

Whether Doug is forced at some point to sell his core collection or buy collections to maximize profits in order to pay for his mounting expenses, remains to be seen. Frankly, I dont see how he can keep it up for very long without doing so.... Add up everything on the site (except the Vault section which is not "really" for sale) and figure out 8% as the gross income. Then estimate costs and overhead and I dont think you come up with a figure tthat will replace whatever salary he gave up that allowed him to buy all those killer comics.

 

Doug, I dont mean to invade your personal space by guessing at these things.... but its germain to the discussion I think...

[glasgap]

Hello all

 

A very interesting thread with some sound comments - which will be ignored when the six (6) Journey into Mystery's appear on Doug's website later tonight. I am betting that all six will be sold by the time I wake up tomorrow morning no matter how high the prices. I live in the UK and, with the 5 or 6 hour time difference, I cannot stay up all night ready to pull the trigger when they are listed. But I have to say that I am guilty of sometimes paying a stupid price for a "must have" book. I try and offset these with more prudent purchases on other books and take an overall point of view re. my purchases.

 

With reference to the previous discussions, I do like Doug's site from a buying point of view. Everything is there on a platter (with the exception of back cover scans) and I can peruse the fantastic inventory at my liesure. It is very well laid out and the comments with each book give me some comfort as to what I am buying. The BIN's are generally very high but, with the BID options, the marketplace will decide the prices of most books if they actually sell - more so when the "honeymoon period" is over. Unfortunately, many of the choice items will be snapped up by BIN (look at the first 4 JIM's on Doug's site - they were gone before you could say "Thor"). I feel I have little choice but to exercise this BIN option on occasion - so that I can own at least a few prizes.

 

Alan

[sfilosa]

While I surely don't want to speak for Doug, it's my opinion (based on one visit with him), that:

 

He ENJOYS, buying and selling comic books more than ANY other JOB he could do. Of course he wants to make money at it but basically he is COMIBINING his HOBBY and JOB. At this time, he is in the process of rearranging his priorities in life. He is moving to Florida for several reasons (including a better environment for his son to grow up in). He is leaving the closeness of his family, for the closeness of his wife's family. I to made a dramatic change in my life 8 years ago (moving to South Florida) and I wish him the best of luck.

 

Regarding Bob Storms being upset:

 

NOTHING upsets me more than hearing about a DEALER, searching other dealers tables PRIOR to the opening of a convention and purchasing books. I don't blame them for doing it, but it bugs me.

 

Here are books that are literally going to be offered to collectors, but a dealer jumps in, purchases the book, and of course immediately INCREASES the price or puts it away to be sent to CGC.

 

All that's happen is that ANOTHER MIDDLEMAN has added COST to the BOOK, but has NOT ADDED VALUE, as the book was alreadying being offered to the public.

[r100comics]

Do you have any idea how many long boxes of unslabbed Pedigrees Doug still has in his secure location ? (Entire runs of Bronze Age Winnipeg's to name but one). Perhaps Burntboy or one of the other guys that's actually seen it with their own eyes can comment, or even better the Captain himself.

 

I think he'll survive for a little while yet !

[burntboy]

Do you have any idea how many long boxes of unslabbed Pedigrees Doug still has in his secure location ? (Entire runs of Bronze Age Winnipeg's to name but one). Perhaps Burntboy or one of the other guys that's actually seen it with their own eyes can comment, or even better the Captain himself.

 

I think he'll survive for a little while yet !

 

ALMOST everything that i saw at his storage facility was slabbed and in "CGC" boxes. i'm sure he must have loads of bronze books that haven't been slabbed yet, but that's just an opinion. (everything that i saw/touched was the first 20-25 issues or so of all the SA Marvel runs).

 

this is an interesting thread and i have to say that i'm perplexed by Bob Storms position, since he's a hugely reknown dealer. as somebody else eloquently pit it; dealers buy books to sell them for more money. doesn't seem like the source is all that important. i wouldn't be surprised to see some of my books that sold on his site, up for sale somewhere else sometime down the road for more bucks. in fact, i'd expect it!!! as long as i felt that i got a fair price - so be it............

[burntboy]

Hello all

 

A very interesting thread with some sound comments - which will be ignored when the six (6) Journey into Mystery's appear on Doug's website later tonight. I am betting that all six will be sold by the time I wake up tomorrow morning no matter how high the prices. I live in the UK and, with the 5 or 6 hour time difference, I cannot stay up all night ready to pull the trigger when they are listed. But I have to say that I am guilty of sometimes paying a stupid price for a "must have" book. I try and offset these with more prudent purchases on other books and take an overall point of view re. my purchases.

 

With reference to the previous discussions, I do like Doug's site from a buying point of view. Everything is there on a platter (with the exception of back cover scans) and I can peruse the fantastic inventory at my liesure. It is very well laid out and the comments with each book give me some comfort as to what I am buying. The BIN's are generally very high but, with the BID options, the marketplace will decide the prices of most books if they actually sell - more so when the "honeymoon period" is over. Unfortunately, many of the choice items will be snapped up by BIN (look at the first 4 JIM's on Doug's site - they were gone before you could say "Thor"). I feel I have little choice but to exercise this BIN option on occasion - so that I can own at least a few prizes.

 

Alan

 

keep hearing about this JIM cache that's about to be unveiled but nothing so far. not that i'm gonna be buying any of 'em, but still super curious.............

[Aman619]

Do you have any idea how many long boxes of unslabbed Pedigrees Doug still has in his secure location ? (Entire runs of Bronze Age Winnipeg's to name but one). Perhaps Burntboy or one of the other guys that's actually seen it with their own eyes can comment, or even better the Captain himself.

 

I think he'll survive for a little while yet !

 

No. I have no inside knowledge how deep the collection is. Or how many are yet to be graded. SO perhaps he can make it forever as a dealer with no loss in income or lifestyle. Bob earlier stated that Doug often fell in love with pedigree runs he bought only to sell them later on, So I take that to mean he does not have wave after wave of pedigree runs in the collection.

 

I wish Doug well. I also wish more of the books were at "affordable" prices. Lots of sweet books Id like to own there, just not at the prices they sell for......