• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

9.6/9.8 market oversaturated???

Started by MutantKeys,

125 posts in this topic

seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Well, I overpaid on almost everything I purchased for my old Copper X-Men collection. Luckily, I sold before that market crashed, and profited on some of the "rarer" books. Those 1 of 2 in 9.8 are more like 1 of 50+ now. "Manipulation" destroyed the market for Copper and early Modern books.

 

 

 

On copper and moderns I don't think it's manipulation to a great extent. Almost any main publisher book from 1980 to now is not rare in high grade, at all. They are out there.

 

There just had to be an incentive for someone to take a random copper or modern book that guides for $10-20 and spend $30 to slab it.

 

Incentive such as a certain elf-avatared fellow buying the "one and only" 9.8 for a crazy multiple of guide. A few years later all those copper/modern rarities are pretty common in 9.8.

 

Simply because they weren't in a slab doesn't mean they weren't 9.8's all along.

 

Or that they couldn't be pressed into 9.8s, like all the bagged books that commanded insane prices. That's why Wolvie 35 is the gold standard for rare weird Copper 9.8s. They can't be pressed to 9.8. It will take nanotechnology to reweave the paper threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
IchigosSoul

IchigosSoul

Posted
Posted

Wait, isn't the pricing going down a good thing for collectors? Maybe not so much the speculators, but for the average guy like me it sure does help when allocating funds for nice things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well, I overpaid on almost everything I purchased for my old Copper X-Men collection. Luckily, I sold before that market crashed, and profited on some of the "rarer" books. Those 1 of 2 in 9.8 are more like 1 of 50+ now. "Manipulation" destroyed the market for Copper and early Modern books.

 

 

 

On copper and moderns I don't think it's manipulation to a great extent. Almost any main publisher book from 1980 to now is not rare in high grade, at all. They are out there.

 

There just had to be an incentive for someone to take a random copper or modern book that guides for $10-20 and spend $30 to slab it.

 

Incentive such as a certain elf-avatared fellow buying the "one and only" 9.8 for a crazy multiple of guide. A few years later all those copper/modern rarities are pretty common in 9.8.

 

Simply because they weren't in a slab doesn't mean they weren't 9.8's all along.

 

Or that they couldn't be pressed into 9.8s, like all the bagged books that commanded insane prices. That's why Wolvie 35 is the gold standard for rare weird Copper 9.8s. They can't be pressed to 9.8. It will take nanotechnology to reweave the paper threads.

 

 

Odd exceptions or print-run-wide defects that eliminated all chance of 9.8, yes.

 

There's so much copper and modern just sitting in boxes across this great land of ours that people bought, bagged and boarded immediately before the ink even dried that they just can't be bothered to organize or slab.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
It helps to remember that a lot of folks are still collectors first. Getting a book to complete a run or fill a key slot is sometimes worth overpaying for.

 

+1

 

Comics are fun to collect, and it's gravy if one's collection can later be sold for anything near how much it cost to build.

 

As for price trends, it isn't just Bronze but also SA Marvels from around 1966 onward that have declined by a lot. With more and more collectors choosing to focus on the keys at the expense of accumulating complete runs, and new supply continuing to come to market from first-to-market finds and pressed upgrades, this trend is likely to continue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Wait, isn't the pricing going down a good thing for collectors? Maybe not so much the speculators, but for the average guy like me it sure does help when allocating funds for nice things.

 

 

 

That's true for real collectors, but you'd be shocked at how much the "Collecting Urge" diminishes in some people when a book comes down in value or is seen to be on the decline.

 

There are far fewer actual "collectors" out there than we'd all assume there are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

Really? I suspect so many comics are being pressed today for the financial incentive irrespective of the owner's overall financial circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

All the more reason the "upgrade candidates" are disappearing at an alarming rate. I'm calling the World Wildlife fund and asking for their assistance in getting vintage comics with NCB wear declared an endangered species.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

Really? I suspect so many comics are being pressed today for the financial incentive irrespective of the owner's overall financial circumstances.

 

Of course it's just my opinion.

 

If this was the booming 80's, everyone was making money hand over fist, living off of credit and comics were worth half as much you wouldn't see it happening IMO.

 

Instead, times are tight, comics have boomed (because nothing else iin the markets is giving people a ROI) and the market is hot...

 

Again, I find it hard to believe that as soon as the economy tanked a massive shift in prices happened. They both started at exactly the same time.

 

Even if it's not all pressing, the weakened economy caused people to cash in on their collections.

 

The timing is just too big of a smoking gun with many corroborating factors to be dismissed.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

Really? I suspect so many comics are being pressed today for the financial incentive irrespective of the owner's overall financial circumstances.

 

Das right! Just cause I drive a Bentley don't mean I don't want another! I'm shooting for a new ride for every day of the week, and a couple of boxes of Bronze books should help me get closer to the Dream.

 

Bob's right though. Easy money is too irresistable. Its like that stripper with the big, nasty cold sore...you know you shouldn't, but.... (shrug)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

meh You've got to be kidding. I don't always agree with you, but I usually can understand where you're coming from with many of your points.

 

You're way off the mark on this one, Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sterlingcomics

sterlingcomics

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

Really? I suspect so many comics are being pressed today for the financial incentive irrespective of the owner's overall financial circumstances.

 

Or, maybe folks don't have the extra money to spend in the market given the turndown. Still love my bronze. Might as well....not "worth" anything. :shrug:

 

But it is. To me, anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Logan510

Logan510

Posted
Posted
Wait, isn't the pricing going down a good thing for collectors? Maybe not so much the speculators, but for the average guy like me it sure does help when allocating funds for nice things.

 

 

 

That's true for real collectors, but you'd be shocked at how much the "Collecting Urge" diminishes in some people when a book comes down in value or is seen to be on the decline.

 

There are far fewer actual "collectors" out there than we'd all assume there are.

 

Even fewer readers unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

meh You've got to be kidding. I don't always agree with you, but I usually can understand where you're coming from with many of your points.

 

You're way off the mark on this one, Roy.

 

I think pressing is something that collectors are doing more and more of. Two years ago, I'd never heard of pressing. A year ago, I was reading about it because I was curious. A month ago, I sent some books out to be pressed.

 

I think it's a natural progression as collectors become more educated and hear examples of how people are getting 1.0+ grade bumps out of pressing. And the financial difference between an 8.0 and a 9.0 is great enough that people who are - and are not - strapped in this economy are going to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
Wait, isn't the pricing going down a good thing for collectors? Maybe not so much the speculators, but for the average guy like me it sure does help when allocating funds for nice things.

 

 

 

That's true for real collectors, but you'd be shocked at how much the "Collecting Urge" diminishes in some people when a book comes down in value or is seen to be on the decline.

 

There are far fewer actual "collectors" out there than we'd all assume there are.

 

Even fewer readers unfortunately.

 

I agree. Anyone guess to why that is? Too many other things to "do" in our lives? I just picked up my pull at the LCS Monday, excited to read my stack of books. By the time I went to bed, I had been sidetracked with 12 different things, and the comics I really wanted to read were just sitting there on the table.

 

Does that happen to anyone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MutantKeys

MutantKeys

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Awesome. Another pressing thread.

 

Danny, learn to use the search function. :makepoint:

 

C'mon, I haven't read a pressing thread in over a year...I need a little excitement in my life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

meh You've got to be kidding. I don't always agree with you, but I usually can understand where you're coming from with many of your points.

 

You're way off the mark on this one, Roy.

 

You're free to disagree.

 

:foryou:

 

The two things (economy and increase of pressing) along with many others (new collections comic market as well as old ones) do intersect at exactly the same time period, though. roughly 2008-2009. That much is undeniable.

 

How people perceive what happened and how things unfolded in 2008-2009 is a matter of opinion and I can see how people will disagree, though.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
What happened to the days of $9,000 ASM 129's, $1,000+ Bronze ASM, $500+ Bronze X-Men, and expensive HG Bronze Age non-keys?? I took a quick glance at completed auctions on pedigree and eBay and couldn't believe how many books have tanked over the last year. Are too many books becoming available at once? Is everyone pressing? Seems like "Single Top Census" are far and few between. What's going on here??

 

Why are you asking questions you should obviously know the answers to. :baiting:

 

Common sense my friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

meh You've got to be kidding. I don't always agree with you, but I usually can understand where you're coming from with many of your points.

 

You're way off the mark on this one, Roy.

 

You're free to disagree.

 

:foryou:

 

The two things (economy and increase of pressing) along with many others (new collections comic market as well as old ones) do intersect at exactly the same time period, though. roughly 2008-2009. That much is undeniable.

 

How people perceive what happened and how things unfolded in 2008-2009 is a matter of opinion and I can see how people will disagree, though.

 

 

I just disagree with the statement that the economy is the main culprit in the proliferation of pressing.

 

By 2008 (early) the cat was out of the bag. I cannot recall the year, but I would say it really was wide open when Matt had his OS ad about unlocking the hidden value in your books, or something along those lines. That may have been 2006 or something. But, he wasn't the first. I've said it before, Reynold Jay was offering a dry clean & press service (CGC Prep Service) for as long as I've been collecting CGC books (2002).

 

And, as we all know, the price/grade increments have always been nutty.

 

It wasn't the economy. It was the thought of leaving all that money on the table. If things were great in the economy right now, the number of people pressing books would be the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted

Right, it was a big deal, and continues to be. And as it relates to comics, it has almost as much impact as the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of people dry mount pressing comics.

 

I think the economy is very possibly the main reason there are so many comics being pressed today.

 

meh You've got to be kidding. I don't always agree with you, but I usually can understand where you're coming from with many of your points.

 

You're way off the mark on this one, Roy.

 

I think pressing is something that collectors are doing more and more of. Two years ago, I'd never heard of pressing. A year ago, I was reading about it because I was curious. A month ago, I sent some books out to be pressed.

 

I think it's a natural progression as collectors become more educated and hear examples of how people are getting 1.0+ grade bumps out of pressing. And the financial difference between an 8.0 and a 9.0 is great enough that people who are - and are not - strapped in this economy are going to do it.

 

absolutely. the economic downturn is just a convenient scapegoat. I collect in more than one arena and in my other main area the downturn depressed prices for about a year and that was it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing