Has Fantastic Four #1 spiked again?

[Bronty]

I would say maybe #5 and that's it. Keys are everything these days

[KirbyJack]

I'd include #4 to a strict "key" definition.

 

Also, one of the things that makes the title great is that there are lots of FFs that resonate with people who are otherwise non-Fantastic Four buyers.

4, 5 (maybe 6), 12, 25&26, 48-50, and any Surfer covers all have a cross-over appeal. Obviously, FF 26 for example isn't really a key, but it's a book that gets bought, and I would expect it to be pretty liquid even in a "key-book" environment.

 

Not saying these comics are spiking, you understand.

[Bronty]

sure, a key is a tough thing to define and I agree with all your points.

 

I guess what I am saying is that if I were to expect a spike anytime soon, I would expect it to mainly hit #1 and maybe #5.

 

To me #4 is the best or second best book in the run but I think in the short term (and maybe long term too ) #5 will do better.

 

The rest of the books may or may not be keys but I think it would take a broader event (a hit movie, popular new books coming out, etc) to get a significant price lift on those. All wonderful books of course.

[Knightsofold]

What about 52? First BPanther. Not as spike, but closer to a "liquid" book.

 

I like talking about the liquid keys from the early marvel silver age . The period up to and including cap 100, hulk 102, iman, fury,surfer #1s.

 

Discuss? Debate?

[Mark 1]

I actually think FF 1-5 are key books each in their own way. Perhaps FF2 being least but it is the last 10cent issue, 2nd FF appearance and still no uniforms with the 1st appearance of the Skrulls....

 

All others in the run are lower tier keys. I'd put FF 48 as a bigger key than 52. It's all relative but I have never really cared for 52.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

Looking at GPA, I can't see much evidence of a spike at any grade level. Maybe a modest increase that's in line with normal 5% growth, but not anything resembling a "spike".

 

AF15 hasn't really "spiked" either in the last four years, although it has gone up at a decent clip as compared to the rather-anemic growth and decline of all other Silver Marvel books. Looks to me like AF15 has gone up around 25% in the last four years at grades below 7.0, but 7.0 and above has remained mostly steady. My best guess for the higher growth of lower-graded AF15s is that since the great majority of people aren't able to afford the upper grades on that title anymore, the competition for the lower grades has heated up.

To press them,as a 3.0 to a 4.0 makes quite a higher money difference.

[oakman29]

I actually think FF 1-5 are key books each in their own way. Perhaps FF2 being least but it is the last 10cent issue, 2nd FF appearance and still no uniforms with the 1st appearance of the Skrulls....

 

All others in the run are lower tier keys. I'd put FF 48 as a bigger key than 52. It's all relative but I have never really cared for 52.

 

You'll be loving the 52 when Black Panther is introduced in the next Avengers movie.

[Dark Knight]

Actually FF52 has been spiking up in price in alll grades!

[fantastic_four]

Looking at GPA, I can't see much evidence of a spike at any grade level.

 

I don't know if its an outlier but looking at GPA there was a 4.0 sold in July for 5500, if that is permanent I'd call that halfway towards a spike

 

Given that six of the other eight 4.0s and four out of the five 4.5s that have sold in 2012 all sold for less than $5500 and most closer to the mid-$4000 range, that looks like an outlier, but not an unexpected one, there are always outliers. Could have been a particularly attractive copy, could have been thrill-bidding, could have been a pressing candidate...lots of reasons any given copy might sell for more. Given that most this year haven't sold at that level, can't look at it as an indicator of a new price level.

 

I know.... That's why I said *if*. . Can't totally write it off either til we see what happens next. Regardless, the book seems due when it's half he price of af15 and same as hulk 1.... Wtf.

 

The whole market has been mostly flat for almost three years now during the economic downturn, and even the keys haven't been an exception to that. All comics were up during the first year of the downturn in 2008/2009--I think because people were yanking their money out of the traditional markets and looking for hard assets to put money into until the markets became less volatile--but after that initial surge, everything has been flat since with little or no exception.

[fantastic_four]

I actually think FF 1-5 are key books each in their own way. Perhaps FF2 being least but it is the last 10cent issue, 2nd FF appearance and still no uniforms with the 1st appearance of the Skrulls....

 

All others in the run are lower tier keys. I'd put FF 48 as a bigger key than 52. It's all relative but I have never really cared for 52.

 

The actual history of their pricing doesn't hold to this for issues 2, 4, and 48. Issue 3 has increased mostly because it has a lower population than 2 and 4. FF 48 has to be in the top five of worst investments of all Silver Age Marvels due to its huge supply--the book has only gone down in value or if you're lucky held its ground in most grades for over a decade now.

 

FF 1, 5, and 52 are all solid buys with decent potential for growth.

[Primetime]

I would say maybe #5 and that's it. Keys are everything these days

the 12 has increased in FMV at a healthy pace the past 7 years as well. And with the hulk a success in the avengers movie and hulk 1 soaring, FF 12 should keep pace as well. Cool book

[Bronty]

I would say maybe #5 and that's it. Keys are everything these days

the 12 has increased in FMV at a healthy pace the past 7 years as well. And with the hulk a success in the avengers movie and hulk 1 soaring, FF 12 should keep pace as well. Cool book

 

yes, good point, 12 is a great book also

[Bronty]

Looking at GPA, I can't see much evidence of a spike at any grade level.

 

I don't know if its an outlier but looking at GPA there was a 4.0 sold in July for 5500, if that is permanent I'd call that halfway towards a spike

 

Given that six of the other eight 4.0s and four out of the five 4.5s that have sold in 2012 all sold for less than $5500 and most closer to the mid-$4000 range, that looks like an outlier, but not an unexpected one, there are always outliers. Could have been a particularly attractive copy, could have been thrill-bidding, could have been a pressing candidate...lots of reasons any given copy might sell for more. Given that most this year haven't sold at that level, can't look at it as an indicator of a new price level.

 

I know.... That's why I said *if*. . Can't totally write it off either til we see what happens next. Regardless, the book seems due when it's half he price of af15 and same as hulk 1.... Wtf.

 

The whole market has been mostly flat for almost three years now during the economic downturn, and even the keys haven't been an exception to that. All comics were up during the first year of the downturn in 2008/2009--I think because people were yanking their money out of the traditional markets and looking for hard assets to put money into until the markets became less volatile--but after that initial surge, everything has been flat since with little or no exception.

 

I understand that.... but all of that says precisely nothing about what will happen going forward...... you're right that its been flat, and certainly there are reasons for that. I can't give you anything other than gut feel as to why I feel ff1 is due. Well, that and having tried to negotiate on several copies in the last little while, sellers are certainly sticky with their high asking prices right now. (I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything, just saying).

[fantastic_four]

I would say maybe #5 and that's it. Keys are everything these days

the 12 has increased in FMV at a healthy pace the past 7 years as well. And with the hulk a success in the avengers movie and hulk 1 soaring, FF 12 should keep pace as well. Cool book

 

FF 12 has gone down in higher grades the last three years due to lots of new copies hitting market. I'm not sure what it has done in grades under 8.0.

[fantastic_four]

I understand that.... but all of that says precisely nothing about what will happen going forward......

 

It suggests the flatness is likely to continue until the economy improves.

[Bronty]

I understand that.... but all of that says precisely nothing about what will happen going forward......

 

It suggests the flatness is likely to continue until the economy improves.

 

The economy is but one driver James. You feel it will be flat, I think its due, that's fine.

[fantastic_four]

I understand that.... but all of that says precisely nothing about what will happen going forward......

 

It suggests the flatness is likely to continue until the economy improves.

 

The economy is but one driver James. You feel it will be flat, I think its due, that's fine.

 

Perhaps you're right and it isn't the only factor that has kept almost the entire Silver Age market flat for the last three years--what are you thinking the other factors are?

[Bronty]

well there are all sorts of reasons be it pressing, running out of movies to make, prices being already high, yes the economy, you name it. But I'm not talking about the "entire SA market" in general. I'm talking about one book. Applying macro trends like the economy to the performance of a single book is perilous at best. Now I don't have a crystal ball. I could be right or wrong or biased.

 

..but the upward price trend on af15 and hulk 1 (the two best comparables) is noticeably upward. Would it be so shocking to see ff1 go up as well? Its been lagging *well* behind those two and you're right, has pretty much been flat. Its at the point where relative to those other two books, I consider it a good buy.

 

There was a time, back in the late 80s or early 90s, when TOS39 actually surpassed hulk 1 for a month or two in the monthly overstreet. I knew then that TOS39 had no business being more valuable than hulk 1, and for my money hulk 1 has no business being more valuable long-term than ff1

[fantastic_four]

well there are all sorts of reasons be it pressing, running out of movies to make, prices being already high, yes the economy, you name it. But I'm not talking about the "entire SA market" in general. I'm talking about one book. Now I don't have a crystal ball. I could be right or wrong or biased.

 

but the upward price trend on af15 and hulk 1 (the two best comparables) is noticeably upward. Would it be so shocking to see ff1 go up as well? Its been lagging *well* behind those two and you're right, has pretty much been flat. Its at the point where relative to those other two books, I consider it a good buy.

 

There was a time, back in the late 80s or early 90s, when TOS39 actually surpassed hulk 1 for a month or two in the monthly overstreet. I knew then that TOS39 had no business being more valuable than hulk 1, and for my money hulk 1 has no business being more valuable than ff1

 

No, it wouldn't be shocking at all to see FF 1 go up again--not really even surprising, although perhaps a little to me due to the correlation I've seen between a lack of increase in comic prices and the crappy economy. Pressing has affected high grade across all issues, but mostly just the nosebleed towards-the-top-of-the-Census books.

 

I checked AF15 prices for the last few years a few weeks ago, but I hadn't looked at Hulk 1 in a while, so I just did. It is following the same trend that AF15 is--prices below 7.0 are up for the last few years, but prices above that level are largely flat with what little data we have. However, because there is so little data, I can't draw the same conclusions I can with the lower grades going up nicely by around 20% since 2009, so it's possible both books have indeed gone up in all grades.

 

If that's the case, the keys may be an exception to the market as a whole as they always have tended to be, so perhaps FF 1 is due.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Buy, buy, buy now.