Analysis and theory on ComicLink's August OA auction on OCAL...

[dem1138]

Disagree.

 

$3.94M in OA allows you to build a top 10 collection on CAF.

 

First, in the slab market, at least you have the option of going down in grade and paying less money. In OA, the price is the price for a page.

 

I would qualify this by saying that even though the price is the price and the page is the page in OA, you could make the analogy that the drop in price/desirability from a 9.0 to an 8.5 would be similar (in percentage in cost basis) to an FF vs Hulk battle page from FF 12 to a B/B- page from the same issue. In each example you are still getting the item whether it's a book or a page from the series, but you are either compromising on the grade or the content of the page and spending less as a result.

[delekkerste]

You could make that analogy, but, as we've already seen, in many cases you don't even have to make that compromise with slab prices where they are now. Plus, regardless of the grade, the book is still the book.

[micmack]

And wouldn't a true comparison would be the highest grade of a single issue to the OA of every page of that issue? Why are we just picking the cover or a single page to compare pricing to a slab? Because we know the art is worth more in general.

[Pete Marino]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

I have been following along on the sidelines, since I swim in the puddles compared to this conversation. But to say you can't get ANY quality art for 4 figures is a bit of hyperbole.

 

You won't get A-List stuff, but for small-mid level guys like me, you can get some nice things for mid-4 figures.

 

Kirby Capt America fight page-

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15877&ArtistId=921&Details=1&From=Room

 

2 up X-Men page by Kirby

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15881&ArtistId=921&Details=1&From=Room

 

I know it's not your cup of tea per-se, but there's a lot out there that you can get for <$10k.

 

OK, I'll go back to jumping in puddles again.

[Nexus]

Who said the direct comp to OA had to be 9.8 or top Census prices?

 

These are the collectors who have driven the market for slabs. The introduction of graded comics into this discussion began with high dollar slabs vs. OA. Regardless, why do these collectors buy 9.8/top census examples and not lesser grades? Whatever needs they have that they fulfill with high-grade copies, I believe they'll find better served by OA. It appears some of them may have already reached that same conclusion.

 

For lower graded slabs, I fully concur that a nice collection can be put together for a reasonable, realistic amount. But in terms of "impressive collection" (a concept you introduced), a collection of slabs, especially in the lesser grades you allow for, will only be less impressive as we go forward, with more copies hitting the market, and more artificially high grades entering the census. Meanwhile, with ever increasing cost and demand (a point you made), the OA that could have been bought with the equivalent amount will only be more impressive.

 

Anyway, as always, everyone can decide for for themselves what makes them happy.

[jbud73]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

Hey Gene this phenomenon is quite documented in HG Comics market, as your are obviously aware it has happened soooo many times and continues to do so, albeit with less frequency. Being first is going to cost you, and with the non dis-assembly pressing method running you about $8 now to increase a comic's potential hundred or thousands of dollars (depending on the comic) the census has swelled. Now being first to SELL can be a good thing too so there is an upside. The MO sees a comic, that is considered rare in grade, hit top census and there is a frenzy with a price being achieved and then lo and behold people take notice and by hook or by press a few more appear. The law of diminishing returns is applied and the 90% decrease can occur, depending on how much lunacy the initial top census offering garnered, sometimes the decrease is less on the way down.

 

In OA this can occur too though there are IMO a few nuances to how it happens. How many times have we seen a piece that fetches a dropping price only to then be resold a few times until it is finally resold for a much lower price. Fresh to market can still hurt you in OA if you over pay (and then sell in a short interval), Gene's paraphrased analogy of paying too much is always a bad thing in terms of the value you get. So some OA pieces do become hot potatoes buy being available too often and playing musically chairs, where in comics it is the other potatoes that come to join the party that make your potato heat up in a bad way. Further, while there can be only one. There can also be others that are very similar. What did we see in the Miller DD market? One cover goes nuts and all of a sudden how many Miller DD covers and Panel pages started popping up? Artist do enter the Window or bubble just like top census books enter in the comics market. If you were inclined and had the means it seems as if you could own 12 McSpidey covers all offered publicly at auction this year.

 

I would argue that these McSpidey covers are appearing because their owners believe (that concept of Utility again) that their relative worth is at a high point and they would rather have the cash than the art now. I always ask myself, if a bunch of passionate OA collectors feel what many would consider grail pieces are now expendable because the money, and what they can do or obtain with, it is more valuable than the pieces of art in question, are those McSpidey's now not hot potatoes themselves?? Or at least showing the potential to heat up and enter a game of musical chairs??

 

I guess this brings me to the ultimate question, is OA a good buy right now? In reading Gene's posts he seems to postulate that OA is experiencing dangerous pricing escalations across quite a few areas, or over more of the board than is warranted. Yet most feel there is still room for growth in prices. If we accept that then I think the answer, or part of the answer is that there are good buys and bad buys in OA right now, just like there are in any market system. The age old trick is knowing what those buys are and hopefully, the good buys line up with the buyers sense of nostalgia.

[Terry Doyle]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

I have been following along on the sidelines, since I swim in the puddles compared to this conversation. But to say you can't get ANY quality art for 4 figures is a bit of hyperbole.

 

You won't get A-List stuff, but for small-mid level guys like me, you can get some nice things for mid-4 figures.

 

Kirby Capt America fight page-

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15877&ArtistId=921&Details=1&From=Room

 

2 up X-Men page by Kirby

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15881&ArtistId=921&Details=1&From=Room

 

I know it's not your cup of tea per-se, but there's a lot out there that you can get for <$10k.

 

OK, I'll go back to jumping in puddles again.

 

They're both very nice pages, what's not to like?

 

 

[Nexus]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

Eh, not sure that's a better idea. The premise is that slab collectors don't know what OA costs. Their idea of what it costs has likely been colored by reading about the record sales that grab the headlines. For them, looking at slab prices and then actually doing research into OA prices can be illuminating. Or not. Nonetheless, the migration of collectors appears to be slabs -> OA, so the logic follows. Examining values the other way, OA -> slabs...doesn't seem as relevant. Anyone who's buying slabs already knows what they cost. On the OA side, I don't know any collectors who are making the switch to slabs. Values could be such that I could put together a great set of high grade slabs for the cost of say, a few pieces from my OA collection. But I have no plans to do that, and from the sounds of it, neither do you. So, really, at this point, what slabs cost mean very little to me.

 

For anyone just joining, I'll repeat again: To each their own. No knock on anyone who just enjoys collecting graded books. And I don't, and have never, believed that OA can only go up. Certainly not all of it. Just thought that was worth saying again.

[jbud73]

As an aside I thought I would list a few examples of the behavioral tendencies at work in the peaks and valleys of OA and comics that I hope help support my observations above.

 

In comics: A few years ago I slabbed a really nice copy of Strange Tales 135. I had owned the copy for around 15 years and really just slabbed it to see how nice CGC thought it was. It came back 9.4 and I tucked it away as I still appreciated the book I think it was one of two 9.4s and there was a 9.6. Jump ahead about 12 months and people are talking about a comiclink sale of ST 135 for 5.2K (the other 9.4 had sold). I was like no way over 5K I couldn't believe it. Now I had owned the book for a long time, I bought it for $50 and was the 2nd owner and I really loved owning it, but my utilitarian brain started churning and I also owned another raw copy (the Mile High 2), not quite as good, but still pretty darn nice. So I offered it and sold it for 5K it was tough for me to sell it, but by offering it I was really admitting that I didn't think it was worth 5 grand that was the crux of the mentality, granted if I didn't have the MH2 copy it might have been harder but I think I still would have sold it.

 

Jump ahead 6 months. There census quickly swelled, another 9.6 appeared, a few more 9.4s and the person I sold it to obtained a 9.6 and sold my 9.4 for approximately 3.5K or thereabouts. So being first and being in the bubble was good for me and with the pressing machinations in comics the timing was not as good for the buyer, though he is a HG slab savy person and was aware of the likelihood of other HG coming around.

 

 

On the flip side I purchased a NTT cover last year for 5.6K and I believe I was the third owner in about 12 months. The pre-auction estimate was 7-9K and it had changed hands a few time for about or slightly above that level over the course of the last year. By not being first to market I was able to shave 40% or thereabouts off what it would have cost me had I wanted it at the initial offering. Now on the flip side of that there I may never had the opportunity to own the piece, however I could have bought other NTT covers if I was so inclined as there were / are a few others in the marketplace at any one time. The only psychological downside to this is if I have a problem with the cover being passed around, if I see it as a hot potato. In contrast the person that bought my ST 135 didn't have to sell and take the loss. I would argue that part of their reasoning to sell was that they were bothered by not owning something else, a better example, or swayed by their example being joined by other potatoes.

 

So sometimes chasing shiny new pennies in OA can hurt you, but sometimes if you are patient the psychology of that can also help you. I think there are also times where each of us as collectors will be in the bubble and purchase the new hot potato. What I have come to realize is that it only truly becomes a potato if you see it as such and to stop that from happening if you limit how much you overpay and the frequency with which you chase those bubble pieces.

[Ferran Delgado]

Ok, we've seen comparisons of record prices of OA (real or not) vs things from the real world (flats, cars, other collectibles, etc).

 

There were discussions about comic books vs OA, which escapes from my understanding.

 

But what about OA vs OA? I mean, what could you buy with some of these record quantities?

 

Let's take as a reference the following ASM page by Ditko recently auctioned at ComicLink:

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D1%23Item_941614&id=941614

It shows Spider-Man in a not very glorious moment, which I doubt it'd be a definitive sample of the run for a major league collector. It got a very respectable $42,500 price, real or not.

 

In order to show how ridiculous are these astronomical prices, with this budget I chose 23 pages from the same CmicLink August auction. I did it according to my own tastes, which probably won't coincide with mostly of the posters. But if I had to choose between this stack of art and the not-glorious SPM page by Ditko, I'd choose with no second thought the stack.

 

About investments pov, probably I'd also choose the stack since the SPM probably reached its ceiling while many of the pages from the list are real bargains with margin to increase its value.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

-$7,100 - SILVER SURFER #7 PAGE 6 by John Buscema. Many collectors would consider this panel page a really nice representative sample of the series, and they would stop searching for more.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D2%23Item_940927&id=940927

 

-$8,400 - X-MEN #122 TITLE SPLASH by Byrne/Austin. I always wanted a very nice sample of Byrne/Austin run in X-Men and this page would satisfy my hunger.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D2%23Item_942141&id=942141

 

-$4,300 - SKY MASTERS SUNDAY 5-10-1959 by Kirby. I have a weak point with this strip. I already have a very representative daily, but this sunday would be a very nice addition. It's not definitive because I'd prefer a sunday embellished by Wood with lunar landscape and space suits, but I'm realistic (a sunday like the one I described could jump easily to 10k) and this one would be enough.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_943044&id=943044

 

- $3,299 - JOHNNY COMET DAILY 7-8-1952 by Frazetta. Killer daily of the strip.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D4%23Item_939555&id=939555

 

-$3,305. KINGDOM COME #1 PAGE 30 by Alex Ross. Norman McKay and Spectre. Good enough to represent the series, one of my favorite works by Ross.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D4%23Item_942160&id=942160

 

- $3,100 - ASTONISHING TALES #12 COVER by John Buscema. Spectacular Bronze Age cover by Buscema starring Ka-zar and Zabú in action. What else could you ask for 3k?

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D5%23Item_940447&id=940447

 

-$2,170. NEW MUTANTS FOREVER #4 COVER by Art Adams. I have a crush with the character, and an Adams cover for 2k is a steal.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D7%23Item_936163&id=936163

 

-$2,100. INCREDIBLE HULK #284 TITLE SPLASH by Sal Buscema and Joe Sinnott. Enough to stop searching for more pages of the series.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D8%23Item_941636&id=941636

 

-$2,100 - CHAMBER OF DARKNESS #7 PAGE 6 by Bernie Wrightson. From the very first story for Marvel.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D8%23Item_941003&id=941003

 

-$1,015. CAPTAIN AMERICA PAINTING by Finch. Awesome painting by Finch priced at 1k!!!

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D14%23Item_936164&id=936164

 

-$1,100. EX MACHINA #14 COVER by Tony Harris. Love the series and imho this is one of the best covers by Harris.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D14%23Item_942559&id=942559

 

-$850. MOON KNIGHT #25 PAGE 12 by Sienkiewicz. Very nice sample with action and costumes by Sienkiewicz at his peak in the series.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D17%23Item_936129&id=936129

 

-$789 - SENTRY / THE VOID #1 COVER by Jae Lee. One of my favorite series by Lee, and this cover reflects perfectly the spirit of it.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D18%23Item_938354&id=938354

 

-$605. WOLVERINE #21 LOT OF 2 PAGES by Romita Jr/Janson. TWO very nice panel pages with Wolvie and Elektra from this arc written by Millar. A whole issue was sold at Will's and prices were much higher than this.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D21%23Item_942570&id=942570

 

-$500. AVENGERS #41 PAGE 9 by Alan Davis. Killer shot of the full team with a very nice price. Art by Davis is hard to get from his direct sales.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D24%23Item_943104&id=943104

 

-$550. ELEKTRA PAINTED COMMISSION by Sienkiewicz. Nice comission with no endless waiting.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D23%23Item_943110&id=943110

 

-$455 - BATMAN PIN-UP by Sienkiewicz. The same.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D25%23Item_943106&id=943106

 

-$365. ALIEN LEGION T-SHIRT DESIGN by Stroman. Loved the series and Stroman's run, and this is a very appealing unknown image.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D29%23Item_941643&id=941643

 

-$320 - HULK ANNUAL #14 PAGE 5 by Sal Buscema. A spectacular panel page if the splash is not enough for you.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D31%23Item_942448&id=942448

 

-$725. Lot of THREE pages of ETERNALS #6 by Romita Jr and Miki. Very nice samples of the series at steal price!

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D30%23Item_942778&id=942778

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D34%23Item_942780&id=942780

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26f1%3Da%2EMaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2ETitle%252C%2Bi%2EIssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da%2ENoofbids%26ODire3%3DDESC%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D35%23Item_942779&id=942779

[Aman619]

 

If I was to look at both markets I would surmise that there is a lot less cash being transacted in OA than appears on the surface due to the predominance of trade, or trade as a significant factor. In comics I would similarly suggest that there is a lot of re-cycling going on as people sell slabs to buy slabs; this is easier to do in comics as there are more gross buyers of comics than OA and there are more avenues to sell your comics.

 

I think you are right that in OA there is still a lot of trade built into the high sales prices we hear about. But, that was always the knock on HG comics years ago. Trades between a few high rollers like Geppi and Dentist.

 

But now, the money changing hans is cash by a wide majority due to in great part that most book sell in auctions.

 

But, Id argue (if I had a pony in this race) that OA is approaching that same reality. The benchmark sales prices of the past, whether trade or cash, are being met now by cash sales, as the OA market seems to be widening its reach to new collectors and former slab collectors.

 

Maybe its fueling a bubble... maybe the bubble will inflate for another decade! IUt sure feels frothy now, but dont forget Gene called a bubble on slabs ten years ago. He was right about some aspects of slabs, but the best stuff just kept chugging along.

 

Id say that one should approach OA with the experience of slabs in mind. Dont talk yourself into lesser, common stuff that appeals to you now but will not to many other people in the future.... of course IF you are investing for profit. No harm in buying a piece of comics history to decorate your life. But the money will be made in the "good stuff" you can buy at decent prices, as always.

[jbud73]

 

If I was to look at both markets I would surmise that there is a lot less cash being transacted in OA than appears on the surface due to the predominance of trade, or trade as a significant factor. In comics I would similarly suggest that there is a lot of re-cycling going on as people sell slabs to buy slabs; this is easier to do in comics as there are more gross buyers of comics than OA and there are more avenues to sell your comics.

 

I think you are right that in OA there is still a lot of trade built into the high sales prices we hear about. But, that was always the knock on HG comics years ago. Trades between a few high rollers like Geppi and Dentist.

 

But now, the money changing hans is cash by a wide majority due to in great part that most book sell in auctions.

 

But, Id argue (if I had a pony in this race) that OA is approaching that same reality. The benchmark sales prices of the past, whether trade or cash, are being met now by cash sales, as the OA market seems to be widening its reach to new collectors and former slab collectors.

 

Maybe its fueling a bubble... maybe the bubble will inflate for another decade! IUt sure feels frothy now, but dont forget Gene called a bubble on slabs ten years ago. He was right about some aspects of slabs, but the best stuff just kept chugging along.

 

Id say that one should approach OA with the experience of slabs in mind. Dont talk yourself into lesser, common stuff that appeals to you now but will not to many other people in the future.... of course IF you are investing for profit. No harm in buying a piece of comics history to decorate your life. But the money will be made in the "good stuff" you can buy at decent prices, as always.

 

I don't know about the extent of the cash fuel in HG Comics. How many times have a seen sales thread on the boards alone, let alone EBAY with the emphasis, "time to pay my Clink bill need to sell some slabs." More times than I can count with fingers and toes that's for sure.

[dem1138]

Josh throws his hat in the ring - will be interesting to see what this hammers at:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=933311&GSub=134886

[Mmehdy]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

Hey Gene this phenomenon is quite documented in HG Comics market, as your are obviously aware it has happened soooo many times and continues to do so, albeit with less frequency. Being first is going to cost you, and with the non dis-assembly pressing method running you about $8 now to increase a comic's potential hundred or thousands of dollars (depending on the comic) the census has swelled. Now being first to SELL can be a good thing too so there is an upside. The MO sees a comic, that is considered rare in grade, hit top census and there is a frenzy with a price being achieved and then lo and behold people take notice and by hook or by press a few more appear. The law of diminishing returns is applied and the 90% decrease can occur, depending on how much lunacy the initial top census offering garnered, sometimes the decrease is less on the way down.

 

In OA this can occur too though there are IMO a few nuances to how it happens. How many times have we seen a piece that fetches a dropping price only to then be resold a few times until it is finally resold for a much lower price. Fresh to market can still hurt you in OA if you over pay (and then sell in a short interval), Gene's paraphrased analogy of paying too much is always a bad thing in terms of the value you get. So some OA pieces do become hot potatoes buy being available too often and playing musically chairs, where in comics it is the other potatoes that come to join the party that make your potato heat up in a bad way. Further, while there can be only one. There can also be others that are very similar. What did we see in the Miller DD market? One cover goes nuts and all of a sudden how many Miller DD covers and Panel pages started popping up? Artist do enter the Window or bubble just like top census books enter in the comics market. If you were inclined and had the means it seems as if you could own 12 McSpidey covers all offered publicly at auction this year.

 

I would argue that these McSpidey covers are appearing because their owners believe (that concept of Utility again) that their relative worth is at a high point and they would rather have the cash than the art now. I always ask myself, if a bunch of passionate OA collectors feel what many would consider grail pieces are now expendable because the money, and what they can do or obtain with, it is more valuable than the pieces of art in question, are those McSpidey's now not hot potatoes themselves?? Or at least showing the potential to heat up and enter a game of musical chairs??

 

I guess this brings me to the ultimate question, is OA a good buy right now? In reading Gene's posts he seems to postulate that OA is experiencing dangerous pricing escalations across quite a few areas, or over more of the board than is warranted. Yet most feel there is still room for growth in prices. If we accept that then I think the answer, or part of the answer is that there are good buys and bad buys in OA right now, just like there are in any market system. The age old trick is knowing what those buys are and hopefully, the good buys line up with the buyers sense of nostalgia.

 

The same argument was made at the time from Russ Cochran to Bill Gaines about selling the EC art...the readers were in their income prime to buy art. If you carefully look at the RC catalog thread you can clearly see the price appreciation of the EC art over the years.

The argument that the artist is still alive is not gonna work, most if not all the ec artisits were alive at that time. I do not believe that the Spiderman # 1 records sales will ever be topped, and I valued that piece above the 600K spidey cover. EC art was hot at the time because of the EC reprints were so high quality. I do not buy this sale at 300K was made was made only because it was" hot". This piece of art will gonna be worth big bucks today or tomm....hot today does not mean cold down the line....

[Terry Doyle]

Josh throws his hat in the ring - will be interesting to see what this hammers at:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=933311&GSub=134886

 

McAwful artwork, but the Ditko and Romita ASMs are nice

[Bronty]

I can't really argue. It hasn't aged well and I say that as somebody that grew up with the work (the ASM stuff anyways).

 

Today I look at the hulk poster art on heritage, one of the premiere lots, and I can't help but think that the art is a hot mess.

 

He did some dynamic and dare I say iconic covers and you can't take that away from him (I'm thinking hulk 340, asm 316, etc) but there are definitely some pieces that with 20 years hindsight don't look so hot

[jbud73]

I think most slab collectors have just assumed that OA was more expensive than high-grade comics and that really hasn't been true. Again, picking 100 slabs from Heritage archives, totaling them up, and seeing what that amount would have bought in OA, can be eye-opening and instructive.

 

I've got an even better idea. We know what OA costs these days. Now, take that budget and go shopping on ComicLink. Assume that you can get 5-10% in discounts off the listed price and then go wild. I think you'll be surprised at how far your budget can go these days in slabs, especially if you don't have to have the highest graded copy. Cap #117 9.8 selling for 90+% less than its asking price a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. And did I say pennies on the dollar for a 9.4? I meant a single penny on the dollar. Much of the slab hobby is still priced in 2, 3 and 4-figures. The same cannot be said of OA.

 

Hey Gene this phenomenon is quite documented in HG Comics market, as your are obviously aware it has happened soooo many times and continues to do so, albeit with less frequency. Being first is going to cost you, and with the non dis-assembly pressing method running you about $8 now to increase a comic's potential hundred or thousands of dollars (depending on the comic) the census has swelled. Now being first to SELL can be a good thing too so there is an upside. The MO sees a comic, that is considered rare in grade, hit top census and there is a frenzy with a price being achieved and then lo and behold people take notice and by hook or by press a few more appear. The law of diminishing returns is applied and the 90% decrease can occur, depending on how much lunacy the initial top census offering garnered, sometimes the decrease is less on the way down.

 

In OA this can occur too though there are IMO a few nuances to how it happens. How many times have we seen a piece that fetches a dropping price only to then be resold a few times until it is finally resold for a much lower price. Fresh to market can still hurt you in OA if you over pay (and then sell in a short interval), Gene's paraphrased analogy of paying too much is always a bad thing in terms of the value you get. So some OA pieces do become hot potatoes buy being available too often and playing musically chairs, where in comics it is the other potatoes that come to join the party that make your potato heat up in a bad way. Further, while there can be only one. There can also be others that are very similar. What did we see in the Miller DD market? One cover goes nuts and all of a sudden how many Miller DD covers and Panel pages started popping up? Artist do enter the Window or bubble just like top census books enter in the comics market. If you were inclined and had the means it seems as if you could own 12 McSpidey covers all offered publicly at auction this year.

 

I would argue that these McSpidey covers are appearing because their owners believe (that concept of Utility again) that their relative worth is at a high point and they would rather have the cash than the art now. I always ask myself, if a bunch of passionate OA collectors feel what many would consider grail pieces are now expendable because the money, and what they can do or obtain with, it is more valuable than the pieces of art in question, are those McSpidey's now not hot potatoes themselves?? Or at least showing the potential to heat up and enter a game of musical chairs??

 

I guess this brings me to the ultimate question, is OA a good buy right now? In reading Gene's posts he seems to postulate that OA is experiencing dangerous pricing escalations across quite a few areas, or over more of the board than is warranted. Yet most feel there is still room for growth in prices. If we accept that then I think the answer, or part of the answer is that there are good buys and bad buys in OA right now, just like there are in any market system. The age old trick is knowing what those buys are and hopefully, the good buys line up with the buyers sense of nostalgia.

 

The same argument was made at the time from Russ Cochran to Bill Gaines about selling the EC art...the readers were in their income prime to buy art. If you carefully look at the RC catalog thread you can clearly see the price appreciation of the EC art over the years.

The argument that the artist is still alive is not gonna work, most if not all the ec artisits were alive at that time. I do not believe that the Spiderman # 1 records sales will ever be topped, and I valued that piece above the 600K spidey cover. EC art was hot at the time because of the EC reprints were so high quality. I do not buy this sale at 300K was made was made only because it was" hot". This piece of art will gonna be worth big bucks today or tomm....hot today does not mean cold down the line....

 

 

I still believe that there is a psychological admission on behalf of the owners when we see multiple offerings of an artist in a much more mature market than was the case when the EC offerings were going. That admission is, the item is not worth more to them than the financial gain associated with its sale. In order to sustain the escalation tomorrow enough people have to disagree with them over the long terms with their wallets.

 

[Brian Peck]

Comiclink has massive problems with their site and how they handle sales.

[Terry Doyle]

Comiclink has massive problems with their site and how they handle sales.

 

Other than consign a few items (which I removed after a period of inactivity), I've never had any dealings with Comiclink.

 

What are their problems with handling sales, Brian?

[batman_fan]

Comiclink has massive problems with their site and how they handle sales.

 

Other than consign a few items (which I removed after a period of inactivity), I've never had any dealings with Comiclink.

 

What are their problems with handling sales, Brian?

 

I can give you two incidences that happened to me personally. In one case, I sold a 5 figure comic through CLINK. I packed the book up nice and safe and shipped it to CLINK. They received it and later emailed me saying "the buyer backed out". I argued with them a bit and got them to shipped the book back to me at their cost (but I had to cover the shipping expense to them which was about $150 from memory because of the insurance). Same thing happened on another book but it was much cheaper. I have a speculation of what really happened but it is just that, speculation.