Page Quality and Price

[namisgr]

A few observations...

 

Anybody obsessing on White page copies needs their bumps felt.

 

Then you'll have to cop a feel next time we meet.

 

Yes, page quality designations by CGC are wobbly, but...

 

There are lots of comics with pages preserved so well that anybody and everybody would classify them as white. They're so white that they'll be graded by CGC as white every time. We've all seen comics like this with truly exceptional white paper, and from collections in which each and every book has snow white pages.

 

Can you distinguish these exceptional books from those that might wobble between w and ow/w after they've been slabbed? I think so sometimes, like when it's possible to evaluate many examples from the same original collection. There are so many white paged Curator comics or Mass comics from 1964 onward or Twin Cities Strange Tales issues or Janowitz FFs, for instance, that it's a good bet that those with white page designations are for the most part truly exceptional.

 

I'll pay a lot more for these types of white pagers.

[DrWatson]

In the high end range, I do believe the Page Quality affects the grade.

No, it doesn't.

 

Didn't Mark Haspel himself say that very few books with CR/OW make the 9.8 grade ?

No, he didn't.

 

I also believe that a book that is a structural 'tweener' will get a bump with White pages.

No, it wouldn't.

 

[rodan57]

I'd pay a premium for white pages. Unfortunately, CGC can't be trusted on that designation.

 

Same. If two similar books are raw and you can see the whiter pages, I would want the whiter book. It presents better and I would pay more.

 

If it's CGCed, it's a bit more of a gamble. I hear that, occasionally, the CGC grades paper quality by the light of the Moon.

[Flaming_Telepath]

A few observations...

 

Anybody obsessing on White page copies needs their bumps felt.

 

Then you'll have to cop a feel next time we meet.

 

Yes, page quality designations by CGC are wobbly, but...

 

There are lots of comics with pages preserved so well that anybody and everybody would classify them as white. They're so white that they'll be graded by CGC as white every time. We've all seen comics like this with truly exceptional white paper.

 

Can you distinguish these exceptional books from those that might wobble between w and ow/w after they've been slabbed? I think so sometimes,

 

I was sort of going along with you, Bob...

 

But at the point where you claimed the benefit of x-ray vision, you lost me.

 

Yes, there are books out there with truly bone-white pages.

 

But you'd never be able to spot them once they were slabbed.

[namisgr]

A few observations...

 

Anybody obsessing on White page copies needs their bumps felt.

 

Then you'll have to cop a feel next time we meet.

 

Yes, page quality designations by CGC are wobbly, but...

 

There are lots of comics with pages preserved so well that anybody and everybody would classify them as white. They're so white that they'll be graded by CGC as white every time. We've all seen comics like this with truly exceptional white paper.

 

Can you distinguish these exceptional books from those that might wobble between w and ow/w after they've been slabbed? I think so sometimes,

 

I was sort of going along with you, Bob...

 

But at the point where you claimed the benefit of x-ray vision, you lost me.

 

Yes, there are books out there with truly bone-white pages.

 

But you'd never be able to spot them once they were slabbed.

 

My point was that you can by their provenance, Nick. For instance, every Strange Tales issue from the Twin Cities collection from 102-122 and nearly every FF issue from the Curator collection received a white page designation - it's a good bet that these are not comics that would wobble between w and ow/w.

 

With the books I bought off the rack, the early seventies stuff has variable and non-white page quality, but every single issue I bought in the eighties and had graded by CGC over the past eight years has been given white page quality. No wobble.

 

Joe V has brought to market a couple of high grade bronze collections over the past couple of years. I went to his shop and looked a bunch of them over before any were slabbed. One of the collections had exceptional paper preservation, and sure enough the issues from it came back from CGC with the white designation. I've continued to buy slabbed issues from this collection from Joe because of the exceptional paper quality.

[Flaming_Telepath]

A few observations...

 

Anybody obsessing on White page copies needs their bumps felt.

 

Then you'll have to cop a feel next time we meet.

 

Yes, page quality designations by CGC are wobbly, but...

 

There are lots of comics with pages preserved so well that anybody and everybody would classify them as white. They're so white that they'll be graded by CGC as white every time. We've all seen comics like this with truly exceptional white paper.

 

Can you distinguish these exceptional books from those that might wobble between w and ow/w after they've been slabbed? I think so sometimes,

 

I was sort of going along with you, Bob...

 

But at the point where you claimed the benefit of x-ray vision, you lost me.

 

Yes, there are books out there with truly bone-white pages.

 

But you'd never be able to spot them once they were slabbed.

 

My point was that you can by their provenance, Nick. For instance, every Strange Tales SA issue from the Twin Cities collection received a white page designation - it's a good bet that these are not comics that would wobble between w and ow/w.

 

With the books I bought off the rack, the early seventies stuff has variable and non-white page quality, but every single issue I bought in the eighties and had graded by CGC over the past eight years has been given white page quality.

 

Joe V has brought to market a couple of high grade bronze collections over the past couple of years. I went to his shop and looked a bunch of them over before any were slabbed. One of the collections had exceptional paper preservation, and sure enough the issues from it came back from CGC with the white designation. I've continued to buy issues from this collection from Joe because of the exceptional paper quality.

 

I don't doubt any of what you say, Bob.

 

However, to put absolute store by a random slabbed book simply because CGC has - this time around - decided to designate White pages is madness, IMHO.

[namisgr]

However, to put absolute store by a random slabbed book simply because CGC has - this time around - decided to designate White pages is madness, IMHO.

 

Completely agree, which is why for me provenance is so valuable.

[Brian48]

Speaking for myself, if all things being equal, I would pay a premium for W pages.

[Sqeggs]

 

I was discussing a books price with a dealer and GPA avg was around 145 but he was asking 170. I pointed out that I thought his price was high and he pointed out that his book was White page quality and if you look at the GPA avg prices it doesn't diferentiate between books that sold with OW/W vs White pages.

 

 

While it's true that GPA doesn't differentiate PQ designations when listing average prices for a particular grade, they do usually have links that allow you to click through the cert number to find the PQ. They have also added some PQ designations manually where they know them but not the cert number -- or, at least, that seems to be what they are doing.

 

My own unscientific sampling limited to books I'm interested in shows that PQ does, in fact, affect price.

[drbanner]

PQ most certainly affects price, and more often than not, a book w/white pages has nicer cover colors, no interior cover tanning, etc., especially for Silver and Bronze Age books. That's not necessarily true for GA though, I've had several superb looking GA books with brittle/tan/cream pages and heavy interior cover tanning but the cover was so bright and colorful it would make you think the book had white pages.

 

Here are my 2 favorite white pagers.

 

[techvoodoo]

PQ most certainly affects price, and more often than not, a book w/white pages has nicer cover colors, no interior cover tanning, etc., especially for Silver and Bronze Age books. That's not necessarily true for GA though, I've had several superb looking GA books with brittle/tan/cream pages and heavy interior cover tanning but the cover was so bright and colorful it would make you think the book had white pages.

 

It sounds like what you are saying is books with better page quality tend to be better overall, and yes an overall better book would garner a higher price. But my original post was specifically talking about to books with the same exact grade, in this case 9.8, with the only difference beging PQ.

[drbanner]

PQ most certainly affects price, and more often than not, a book w/white pages has nicer cover colors, no interior cover tanning, etc., especially for Silver and Bronze Age books. That's not necessarily true for GA though, I've had several superb looking GA books with brittle/tan/cream pages and heavy interior cover tanning but the cover was so bright and colorful it would make you think the book had white pages.

 

It sounds like what you are saying is books with better page quality tend to be better overall, and yes an overall better book would garner a higher price. But my original post was specifically talking about to books with the same exact grade, in this case 9.8, with the only difference beging PQ.

 

Not really, but as to your original question the answer is the same - for 2 books in identical grade (9.8 for example) and all else being equal, the one with higher PQ will sell for more. There are plenty of low-mid grade books with white pages that are bright and cheery, but corner/edge wear, creases, etc.,. bring the grade down. If I collected Bronze Age or newer in 9.8, I personally wouldn't buy anything that didn't have white pages unless it was a tough indie book or something like that. You can choose to be picky when there are dozens/hundreds of books in grade. (thumbs u

[Mephisto]

having W/OW pages is a flaw as far as grading is concerned right? meaning it will lower the grade a bit, I would assume, or am I wrong?

 

I ask that because if a book had White pages then it might have some other flaw which is the reason it's a 9.8 and not a 9.9. So aren't the odds better than you will have a book that looks/presents nicer with W/OW because that is one of the flaws taken into account, instead of say a spine tick or something?

 

If that's the case I'd rather have W/OW pages and a nicer over all outside appearance every time.

Incorrect.Page quality does not effect numerical grade,unless you start getting into the brittle area.

 

From what I have learned, Cream to Off White pages may have an effect on the grade if it's a deciding factor (meaning, if the grade is a draw between two grade choices).

 

 

you mean 9.8 and 9.9. I just sold a Daredevil 111 CGC 9.8...with cream to off-white pages.

[G.A.tor]

Another thing to consider.... It is page "quality". Not just page color. Color is just one component of the PQ designation (thumbs u

[Mark 1]

I agree with namisgr on some books the PQ won't be variable at CGC unless they really have lost all their grading skills.

 

Some slabs I have with white pages I would never think of resubmitting just because of the possible PQ being lowered.

 

Others I have are obviously white pages and you can tell by the cover and just looking at the pages between the covers of the slab. I have some comics with white pages so white that there is no debate about their color. The back covers are true white and you can see the sides of the pages that are much whiter that other slabs I own.

 

You don't have to open the slab and comic in some cases to know those pages are white.

 

And yes, I would pay a slight premium for white pages but it depends on the book, how the cover paper looks and especially the back cover.

 

 

[Sal]

I think the gist of all the responses in this thread is along the lines of "Buy the book, not the label."