Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[Speedy-D]

You may have walked into my trap.

 

Why restore something that has 10,000 copies? Money.

 

Dan

Of course. Why else?*

 

I suppose a certain amount of preservation could be done to save a comic with a high scarcity level. Beyond that, it's to jack up the price. Or, if you own it and you don't plan to sell it, you could restore it just so it's nicer to look at. :shrug:

 

*Asked and answered!

[VintageComics]

This book was pressed. Recessed staples. 9.8

Not Silver Age. Not Marvel. Discuss.

- What did it look like before pressing?

- In my opinion, it shouldn't merit a 9.8

 

Most wouldn't. It was from the press, which I took directly from the presser and submitted to CGC.

So in line with what you're saying, I have to wonder, is CGC going to see recessed staples across the entire range of comics, as NOT a defect, simply because pressing can cause it? Wouldn't that be the safe business model?

Obviously it raises some questions but...

Can you imagine them pressing a book, recessing the staples, and then downgrading for it? Disastrous.

 

 

You still do not know what happened to the book from the time it left your hands to the time it was placed within the CGC holder. It would have gone through multiple hands, multiple procedures and travelled many miles.

 

Not saying it didn't happen during pressing (I have had damage happen during a pressing job to books - comics are fragile and personally, if I was a presser I'd never guarantee that something can't happen) but it isn't conclusive unless you were the one that put the book in the press and removed it.

 

 

[Speedy-D]

This book was pressed. Recessed staples. 9.8

Not Silver Age. Not Marvel. Discuss.

- What did it look like before pressing?

- In my opinion, it shouldn't merit a 9.8

 

Most wouldn't. It was from the press, which I took directly from the presser and submitted to CGC.

So in line with what you're saying, I have to wonder, is CGC going to see recessed staples across the entire range of comics, as NOT a defect, simply because pressing can cause it? Wouldn't that be the safe business model?

Obviously it raises some questions but...

Can you imagine them pressing a book, recessing the staples, and then downgrading for it? Disastrous.

 

 

You still do not know what happened to the book from the time it left your hands to the time it was placed within the CGC holder. It would have gone through multiple hands, multiple procedures and travelled many miles.

 

Not saying it didn't happen during pressing (I have had damage happen during a pressing job to books - comics are fragile and personally, if I was a presser I'd never guarantee that something can't happen) but it isn't conclusive unless you were the one that put the book in the press and removed it.

 

Too true! Maybe it got dropped by the PO, and the staples got recessed? Or someone rolled the cover back reading it on the john? Or a mischievous kid took a hammer to the staples?

[VintageComics]

All art gets restored. Us comic book collectors are the last to realize this.

 

Dan

 

This statement is 100% not true.

 

Ditto.

 

Actually, for the statement to be 100% not true, you would have to be suggesting that a correct statement would be "No art gets restored. US comic book collectors are the first to realize this."

 

 

Exactly. The last time I was at the Met and MOMA, the curators were more than happy to let me know what pieces were being restored and therefore not viewable. This pansy approach to purity is pathetic.

 

Dan

 

Your statement that ALL art gets restored is not correct. I have a lot of artwork that has not been restored. I think there are probably more work that hasn't been restored than restored but that is a guess on my part.

 

Fair enough. I think that a lot of work will be restored. Our perception of that work will always be our own.

 

Dan

 

Eventually, every piece of paper will need to be restored in order to preserve it. There is no way around it.

 

Our hobby is just young enough for us to ignore that now but much like waste management and changing the landscape has an effect on the earth we live on, eventually (if we are around long enough) people's perceptions on restoration of comics will change just like it did for garbage and changing the landscape.

 

I'm not equating the two, merely showing how our perception changes over time on even what seems the most obvious, most important things...let alone something as insignificant as comics.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Or a mischievous kid took a hammer to the staples?

 

Freaking elves. They need to be kept busy all year round with no vacation and no access to Santa's secret stash of booze!

[VintageComics]

Too true! Maybe it got dropped by the PO, and the staples got recessed? Or someone rolled the cover back reading it on the john?

 

You'll notice that in the pics namisgr posted the majority of time it's the top staple that is affected. Coincidence? I don't believe so. I've already seen that defect on books that were not pressed (mostly SA FF books, as mentioned).

 

I believe it probably happens when a comic is sitting upright. The top step is under more stress than the bottom one as gravity tries to drop the interior pages out the side of the book from inside the cover. Remember, the interior pages are always trying to pull away from the spine to the right.

 

I can see pressing possibly making it worse but the inherent weakness needs to be there for it to happen in a press in the first place.

 

 

[namisgr]

This book was pressed. Recessed staples. 9.8

Not Silver Age. Not Marvel. Discuss.

- What did it look like before pressing?

- In my opinion, it shouldn't merit a 9.8

 

Most wouldn't. It was from the press, which I took directly from the presser and submitted to CGC.

So in line with what you're saying, I have to wonder, is CGC going to see recessed staples across the entire range of comics, as NOT a defect, simply because pressing can cause it? Wouldn't that be the safe business model?

Obviously it raises some questions but...

Can you imagine them pressing a book, recessing the staples, and then downgrading for it? Disastrous.

 

 

You still do not know what happened to the book from the time it left your hands to the time it was placed within the CGC holder. It would have gone through multiple hands, multiple procedures and travelled many miles.

 

Not saying it didn't happen during pressing (I have had damage happen during a pressing job to books - comics are fragile and personally, if I was a presser I'd never guarantee that something can't happen) but it isn't conclusive unless you were the one that put the book in the press and removed it.

 

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt.

[VintageComics]

This book was pressed. Recessed staples. 9.8

Not Silver Age. Not Marvel. Discuss.

- What did it look like before pressing?

- In my opinion, it shouldn't merit a 9.8

 

Most wouldn't. It was from the press, which I took directly from the presser and submitted to CGC.

So in line with what you're saying, I have to wonder, is CGC going to see recessed staples across the entire range of comics, as NOT a defect, simply because pressing can cause it? Wouldn't that be the safe business model?

Obviously it raises some questions but...

Can you imagine them pressing a book, recessing the staples, and then downgrading for it? Disastrous.

 

 

You still do not know what happened to the book from the time it left your hands to the time it was placed within the CGC holder. It would have gone through multiple hands, multiple procedures and travelled many miles.

 

Not saying it didn't happen during pressing (I have had damage happen during a pressing job to books - comics are fragile and personally, if I was a presser I'd never guarantee that something can't happen) but it isn't conclusive unless you were the one that put the book in the press and removed it.

 

Denial. Not just a river in Egypt.

 

I just made a post earlier about accidents that can happen during pressing.

 

I'm not denying anything. I just don't think it's conclusive that pressing did it. See my detailed post below in case you missed it.

 

 

You'll notice that in the pics namisgr posted the majority of time it's the top staple that is affected. Coincidence? I don't believe so. I've already seen that defect on books that were not pressed (mostly SA FF books, as mentioned).

 

I believe it probably happens when a comic is sitting upright. The top step is under more stress than the bottom one as gravity tries to drop the interior pages out the side of the book from inside the cover. Remember, the interior pages are always trying to pull away from the spine to the right.

 

I can see pressing possibly making it worse but the inherent weakness needs to be there for it to happen in a press in the first place.

 

[AGGIEZ]

Didn't read the whole thread....is CGC buying graders here?

[namisgr]

You're in denial.

 

I've had hundreds of comics encapsulated by CGC. I have friends who've had thousands encapsulated. In our collective experiences, there has never been one single instance of a staple becoming indented during the shipping to CGC, grading, slabbing, and return shipping. Zero.

 

This year I had 6 comics pressed by the new head of the CCG pressing service - one developed an indented staple (You saw it in person - CGC gave it a 9.6 anyway, which is ridiculous), and another a horizontal color breaking crease where the bottom overhang was pressed (also given a 9.6 anyway by CGC). You can see dozens more examples just by a quick perusal of the Pedigree, Heritage, or Worldwide Comics websites. Of course some of these comics got their staples indented during production, everybody knows that. The effects of pressing on staples and cover overhangs, on the other hand, are not widely known.

 

CGC is lenient on defects that are sometimes produced during the pressing process.

[TupennyConan]

CGC is lenient on defects that are sometimes produced during the pressing process.

 

If they weren't before, they will be now.

[joecgcmaniac]

CGC is lenient on defects that are sometimes produced during the pressing process.

 

If they weren't before, they will be now.

 

and since their grading standards have never been publicized they can just say that they were always lenient on certain defects

[VintageComics]

You're in denial.

 

I've had hundreds of comics encapsulated by CGC. I have friends who've had thousands encapsulated. In our collective experiences, there has never been one single instance of a staple becoming indented during the shipping to CGC, grading, slabbing, and return shipping. Zero.

 

This year I had 6 comics pressed by the new head of the CCG pressing service - one developed an indented staple (You saw it in person - CGC gave it a 9.6 anyway, which is ridiculous), and another a horizontal color breaking crease where the bottom overhang was pressed (also given a 9.6 anyway by CGC). You can see dozens more examples just by a quick perusal of the Pedigree, Heritage, or Worldwide Comics websites. Of course some of these comics got their staples indented during production, everybody knows that. The effects of pressing on staples and cover overhangs, on the other hand, are not widely known.

 

CGC is lenient on defects that are sometimes produced during the pressing process.

 

I'm not denying it happens. I'm saying that pressing causing it is inconclusive.

 

I've had plenty of books pressed in the past years and it just never stood out to me to see a recessed staple come back from a pressing job.

 

On the other hand, I have made mental notes of that defect on books that I didn't believe to be pressed. The reason I remember them was because I try to remember which defects are allowed in which grades to teach myself how to grade better.

 

So in my experience I have not seen it happen from a press job.

 

Anyway, not a big deal either way. Just being a stickler with the details.

 

 

[Underground44]

Posted by the OP one week ago:

 

To all our customers:

 

All of us at CGC take pride in what we do. In order to accurately grade books they must each be given a certain amount of time and attention. We can’t shorten the grading process in order to move things along more quickly. We understand your frustration regarding grading turn around times and are doing everything in our power to reduce the time between submitting and receiving your graded and encapsulated books. Although being overwhelmed with submissions is a great issue that we don’t want to complain about, it is still an issue none the less. We’d like you to know that we are working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week in an attempt to alleviate the issues with turn around times. We are also looking to hire additional Graders. If you’d like more information or are interested in applying, please check the Careers page of our website for all the details.

 

Please be patient and keep in mind that we are doing our best to get your books back to you properly graded and encapsulated in order to maintain the integrity of what we do and the hobby we do it for.

 

How is aquiring another company addressing ANY of the turnaround issues?

[sterlingcomics]

Posted by the OP one week ago:

 

To all our customers:

 

All of us at CGC take pride in what we do. In order to accurately grade books they must each be given a certain amount of time and attention. We can’t shorten the grading process in order to move things along more quickly. We understand your frustration regarding grading turn around times and are doing everything in our power to reduce the time between submitting and receiving your graded and encapsulated books. Although being overwhelmed with submissions is a great issue that we don’t want to complain about, it is still an issue none the less. We’d like you to know that we are working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week in an attempt to alleviate the issues with turn around times. We are also looking to hire additional Graders. If you’d like more information or are interested in applying, please check the Careers page of our website for all the details.

 

Please be patient and keep in mind that we are doing our best to get your books back to you properly graded and encapsulated in order to maintain the integrity of what we do and the hobby we do it for.

 

How is aquiring another company addressing ANY of the turnaround issues?

Why are you relating the two? They are different things altogether.

[Moondog]

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

 

How's the health of that market fared?

 

In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace.

 

'mint'

 

What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable?

 

[Underground44]

Posted by the OP one week ago:

 

To all our customers:

 

All of us at CGC take pride in what we do. In order to accurately grade books they must each be given a certain amount of time and attention. We can’t shorten the grading process in order to move things along more quickly. We understand your frustration regarding grading turn around times and are doing everything in our power to reduce the time between submitting and receiving your graded and encapsulated books. Although being overwhelmed with submissions is a great issue that we don’t want to complain about, it is still an issue none the less. We’d like you to know that we are working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week in an attempt to alleviate the issues with turn around times. We are also looking to hire additional Graders. If you’d like more information or are interested in applying, please check the Careers page of our website for all the details.

 

Please be patient and keep in mind that we are doing our best to get your books back to you properly graded and encapsulated in order to maintain the integrity of what we do and the hobby we do it for.

 

How is aquiring another company addressing ANY of the turnaround issues?

Why are you relating the two? They are different things altogether.

 

I'm relating the two because if CGC were "doing all that they could" to address turnaround times, they would have done that first before aquiring CI.

This won't help turnaround times will it?

 

[thirdgreenham]

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

 

How's the health of that market fared?

 

In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace.

 

'mint'

 

What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable?

 

It absolutely is not acceptable, but it's out there. I suppose on the rarest of notes, you take what you can get, pressed or unpressed. In that case, it probably won't be too big of an issue.

 

However, the pressing of paper money is much easier to identify as the ink on notes is embossed, so there is a raised print feeling to an unpressed note. For unpressed notes, they are marked as EPQ (exceptional paper quality).

 

Most collectors that I have encountered ask me if my notes have been pressed. The answer is no, as I've never pressed a note. They usually go on to tell me that they will not buy pressed notes and are only looking for notes with EPQ.

 

It's a toss up from a dealer's standpoint. Press the note and perhaps get a higher grade and lose the EPQ, or don't press it and have a lower grade and keep the EPQ. The question that would need to be asked is, "How much would the pressing raise the note's grade?".

 

Anyway, that's my

[skypinkblu]

All art gets restored. Us comic book collectors are the last to realize this.

 

Dan

 

This statement is 100% not true.

 

Ditto.

 

Actually, for the statement to be 100% not true, you would have to be suggesting that a correct statement would be "No art gets restored. US comic book collectors are the first to realize this."

 

 

Exactly. The last time I was at the Met and MOMA, the curators were more than happy to let me know what pieces were being restored and therefore not viewable. This pansy approach to purity is pathetic.

 

Dan

 

I grew up going to the Met, Moma and a few other museums, I don't know what business you are in, but I was an art student in NYC... I could probably give you a guided tour or at least I could have till they redid MOMA;) Not all art is restored.

 

SOME art is restored...some art is cleaned...Not all comics are restored...Most of the art that has had work on it, was created way before comics were invented and they are one of a kind, unlike comics. I don't know if you have ever watched an art restoration project involving a valuable painting, but it can take years and after it's done...it's not left off the grader's notes, either;)

 

I see that Speedy D already answered this, I should have finished the thread and said + 1

Edited November 18, 2012 by skypinkblu

[Tony S]

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

 

How's the health of that market fared?

 

In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace.

 

'mint'

 

What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable?

 

It absolutely is not acceptable, but it's out there. I suppose on the rarest of notes, you take what you can get, pressed or unpressed. In that case, it probably won't be too big of an issue.

 

However, the pressing of paper money is much easier to identify as the ink on notes is embossed, so there is a raised print feeling to an unpressed note. For unpressed notes, they are marked as EPQ (exceptional paper quality).

 

Most collectors that I have encountered ask me if my notes have been pressed. The answer is no, as I've never pressed a note. They usually go on to tell me that they will not buy pressed notes and are only looking for notes with EPQ.

 

It's a toss up from a dealer's standpoint. Press the note and perhaps get a higher grade and lose the EPQ, or don't press it and have a lower grade and keep the EPQ. The question that would need to be asked is, "How much would the pressing raise the note's grade?".

 

Anyway, that's my

I don't collect currency (at least not like saving it. I "collect" all I can get then spend it.) But this was an interesting read. Thanks!

 

Edited November 18, 2012 by Tony S