Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[blazingbob]

Richard,

I didn't think there was a book that Doug owned that he didn't think could improve.

 

If the book didn't upgrade than basically every different finalizer was used, CGC standards didn't get loose enough or the different set of graders didn't think it had a shot at 9.8 either.

 

 

[Lunchbox-migration]

And when is lou_fine going to show up? This thread is tailor-made for him!

[sterlingcomics]

I don't know if Shaken Comic Smashed corner syndrome might also affect staple impact if the book hit on the edge of the spine.

 

fixed that for you. :thumbsup:

[sterlingcomics]

Smart but risky business move for CGC.

 

I thought being smart would mean mitigating/managing risk. Not sure how they've done this, short of simply waiting six years to make this more approachable.

[sterlingcomics]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

 

you crack me up

 

That was probably my best post in 12 months.

What's your vector, Victor?

[Prince Namor]

Think of all the new customers who'll be exposed to pressing for the first time, by visiting CGC's booth or website...

[Straw-Man]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

Master Chief... Sadly, we know your hard drive is chock full of similar charts.

 

something i agree with--i find it sad, as well.

[miraclemet]

Scenario of concern.

 

100 Books gets pre-screened as a CGC 9.6 with a chance for 9.8 with a press by CGC owned CI. Book gets pressed and submitted. 99 of the 100 get the 9.8

 

100 books get pre-screened as a CGC 9.6 with a chance for 9.8 by a non-CGC owned restoration/conservation group. Books get pressed and submitted. 80 of the 100 get the 9.8.

 

Was this:

• CI being the best at what they do
  
• random variation in the universe
  
• CGC giving preferential grades to their in-house conservation/restoration efforts since they know the better rep a restorer gets, the more business they get.

 

If you knew CI was your best bet to bump a book from 9.6 to 9.8 wouldn't you use them? ( if you were going to go the pressing route)... and thats where (one of) the conflict lies.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Miraclemet

[500Club]

Until I see a problem which results from the acquisition, I have no problem with it.

 

I honestly don't see anything happening which has not been done before. Books have been getting pressed by CI, they submit them to CGC, books get graded. Should be the exact same process now.

 

Is there the appearance of a possibility of conflict of interest? Sure. However, if Paul and the other graders really don't know whose books they are grading, then I don't see how it is a problem.

 

That's a mighty big if. Before, CGC had no direct financial interest in knowing whose book is being graded. Now they do. That's the problem to me.

It's a small 'if'. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.

 

And, CGC, with the HA ownership issue, did/does have a previous direct financial interest in knowing the submitter.

 

Not only that, as I said before, this is a minimal COI compared to the Final Value Fee calculation COI.

 

Frankly, this issue is more of a tinfoil hat wearer's wet dream than a valid COI concern. Two years from now, all the angst of this thread will be long forgotten.

 

 

[batman_fan]

I don't feel like reading 21 pages.

 

Cliffnotes? (I'm more interested in member freak outs, yelling, and name calling). Thanks!

PCS back on campus, its value-added service celebrated. Players play, buyers buy, and the world turns...

 

This post pretty much sums it up. Although this thread has lots of cleaver posts and interesting data it isn't going to change a thing so no reason for anyone to get all worked up.

[Straw-Man]

Classic reading on the about face of PCS last time.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1139470#Post1139470

 

Well, we did try and tell them it was a stinker.

 

reasonable minds differ on what constitutes classic reading.

[Boba]

Hey, it's a done-deal, so we move on and look at what benefits this may bring. I think it's good because now I won't have to have Classic's ship completed books to me and then reship them back to CGC - one-stop shopping. I also would like to see restored books get some respect, and maybe having CGC incorporate this service will help to, ahem' somewhat restore the attraction restored books have.

[Straw-Man]

Ultimately, this is a futile discussion. Individuals who feel their books have been damaged by pressing will post their evidence or experience, those who suckle at the CPR tit will either deny or minimize whatever is presented because it's in their interests to do so, and round and round we will continue to go.

 

I don't know if pressing damages books. My advice to those who are concerned about it would be don't get your books pressed.

 

most accurate post in the thread.

[Dr. Balls]

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

 

Why would one of the greatest military commanders we've had in the past 20 years ruin his reputation over a piece of p*ssy? The business and professional world is rife with companies who make incredibly poor decisions and it all starts over the idea that they can *get away with it*.

 

I have no intention of "trusting" a company. I trust people. I trust myself. I don't "trust" a company to do the right thing. Ever. I engage in an equitable transaction that will mutually benefit both myself and the company. When that transaction becomes more in the favor of the company than myself, I start rethinking my financial choices.

 

I can't even imagine trusting CGC (or any other business for that matter) to do the right thing merely because they have cultivated a positive reputation in the marketplace.

[pickycollector]

Ultimately, this is a futile discussion. Individuals who feel their books have been damaged by pressing will post their evidence or experience, those who suckle at the CPR tit will either deny or minimize whatever is presented because it's in their interests to do so, and round and round we will continue to go.

 

I don't know if pressing damages books. My advice to those who are concerned about it would be don't get your books pressed.

 

most accurate post in the thread.

+1

[Transplant]

Classic reading on the about face of PCS last time.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1139470#Post1139470

 

Well, we did try and tell them it was a stinker.

 

reasonable minds differ on what constitutes classic reading.

Classic meaning old. Not classic meaning great. I didn't read much of it.

[Transplant]

Until I see a problem which results from the acquisition, I have no problem with it.

 

I honestly don't see anything happening which has not been done before. Books have been getting pressed by CI, they submit them to CGC, books get graded. Should be the exact same process now.

 

Is there the appearance of a possibility of conflict of interest? Sure. However, if Paul and the other graders really don't know whose books they are grading, then I don't see how it is a problem.

 

That's a mighty big if. Before, CGC had no direct financial interest in knowing whose book is being graded. Now they do. That's the problem to me.

It's a small 'if'. Hasn't happened. Won't happen.

 

And, CGC, with the HA ownership issue, did/does have a previous direct financial interest in knowing the submitter.

 

Not only that, as I said before, this is a minimal COI compared to the Final Value Fee calculation COI.

 

Frankly, this issue is more of a tinfoil hat wearer's wet dream than a valid COI concern. Two years from now, all the angst of this thread will be long forgotten.

 

In the immortal words of what's becoming the battle cry of this thread, prove it. How do you know it hasn't happened? You can't prove it hasn't any more than I can prove it has. But CGC now has a more immediate financial reason to commingle. This announcement is a Rorschach test. But not every one who sees a problem with it was a conspiracy nut when they heard it.

[mschmidt]

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

 

Why would one of the greatest military commanders we've had in the past 20 years ruin his reputation over a piece of p*ssy? The business and professional world is rife with companies who make incredibly poor decisions and it all starts over the idea that they can *get away with it*.

 

I have no intention of "trusting" a company. I trust people. I trust myself. I don't "trust" a company to do the right thing. Ever. I engage in an equitable transaction that will mutually benefit both myself and the company. When that transaction becomes more in the favor of the company than myself, I start rethinking my financial choices.

 

I can't even imagine trusting CGC (or any other business for that matter) to do the right thing merely because they have cultivated a positive reputation in the marketplace.

 

It's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

CGC's business model is already built up around trust - trust that they'll grade your books impartially, that they won't swap the books while they're in CGC's possession, that they won't intentionally damage your books, that they won't give preferential treatment to high-volume submitters, etc.

 

You either trust CGC to run their business according to those tenets or you don't, but there's nothing in the purchase of CI by CGC's parent company that changes the CGC business model. So until CGC says otherwise, I'm going to assume that books will continue to enter the grading room in a mylar with a barcode and the CGC graders will continue to remain oblivious as to the owner of said books.

[500Club]

Scenario of concern.

[*]CGC giving preferential grades to their in-house conservation/restoration efforts since they know the better rep a restorer gets, the more business they get.

 

If you knew CI was your best bet to bump a book from 9.6 to 9.8 wouldn't you use them? ( if you were going to go the pressing route)... and thats where (one of) the conflict lies.

Scenario not of concern.

 

The books go into the grading process blind, devoid of information regarding source, submitter, pressing history etc.

[cheetah]

All of this must make you wonder if the time is right for competent competition to raise its head and challenge CGC. It would seem like the industry is just begging for it. The backlog on moderns is just ripe for the taking and there are so many competent former graders out there now that virtually all of them have left CGC.