CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[COI]

Obviously, but that's because there is a direct correlation between the profitability of a practice and the prevalence of it. Pressing is more prevalent because it's more profitable, and in turn, it's fixated upon to a greater degree.

 

I'll give you most bronze and basically all moderns, but I would wager that dry cleaning is just as prevalent as pressing on silver age books and golden age books....and that's where state of preservation really ties into value. Keeping a 10 year old book clean and perfect? No big deal. Keeping a 60 year old book clean and perfect? Big money.

 

Didn't you just say "No dollars are tied to the practice of dry cleaning, therefore nobody cares"? Do you mean that people don't associate dry cleaning with money, or that there is no money in dry cleaning? Can dry cleaning take an 8.5 to a 9.6?

[skypinkblu]

. Why is it not possible for someone to be opposed to the act just because they fear it's harmful, or even just because it changes the state of a comic and they think this is an area where one should tread o so lightly?

 

Like I said above, because I don't see the same hand wringing over dry cleaning. All of the above concerns should apply to that practice as well as pressing, but mysteriously they don't.

 

Just don't think it's been given as much "press" ...until last year, I never knew "dry cleaning" was not noted. I thought erasing and all that stuff would be noted...Even now, I'm not sure what is allowed in that area, but if you'd like to explain what has been going on, I'd love to hear about it as a learning experience.

I thought the Wonder Bread thing was kind of a joke...it's kind of greasy and yucky.

 

[Speedy-D]

. Why is it not possible for someone to be opposed to the act just because they fear it's harmful, or even just because it changes the state of a comic and they think this is an area where one should tread o so lightly?

 

Like I said above, because I don't see the same hand wringing over dry cleaning. All of the above concerns should apply to that practice as well as pressing, but mysteriously they don't.

So, pressing is the issue du jour. You hear more about something, you think more about it. Seems pretty obvious and non-nefarious to me.

 

EDIT: Anyway dude, you are so last month!!

[COI]

I never knew "dry cleaning" was not noted

 

Neither did I. I've seen it on purple labels in the past.

[october]

Obviously, but that's because there is a direct correlation between the profitability of a practice and the prevalence of it. Pressing is more prevalent because it's more profitable, and in turn, it's fixated upon to a greater degree.

 

I'll give you most bronze and basically all moderns, but I would wager that dry cleaning is just as prevalent as pressing on silver age books and golden age books....and that's where state of preservation really ties into value. Keeping a 10 year old book clean and perfect? No big deal. Keeping a 60 year old book clean and perfect? Big money.

 

Didn't you just say "No dollars are tied to the practice of dry cleaning, therefore nobody cares"? Do you mean that people don't associate dry cleaning with money, or that there is no money in dry cleaning? Can dry cleaning take an 8.5 to a 9.6?

 

No money in the sense that you aren't going to get a grade bump in most cases by dry cleaning, but it likely changes the value just based on aesthetics. It makes the book prettier, so a clean 9.2 might bring more than a dirty 9.2. Harder to quantify, harder to prove than a 9.0 with NCB damage that jumps to a 9.6 after a press.

 

So yes, people don't associate dry cleaning with money as much as they associate pressing with money.

[Jeffro.]

I took my comics to the local dry cleaners. Friends, don't let friends take their comics to their local dry cleaners.

[october]

. Why is it not possible for someone to be opposed to the act just because they fear it's harmful, or even just because it changes the state of a comic and they think this is an area where one should tread o so lightly?

 

Like I said above, because I don't see the same hand wringing over dry cleaning. All of the above concerns should apply to that practice as well as pressing, but mysteriously they don't.

 

Just don't think it's been given as much "press" ...until last year, I never knew "dry cleaning" was not noted. I thought erasing and all that stuff would be noted...Even now, I'm not sure what is allowed in that area, but if you'd like to explain what has been going on, I'd love to hear about it as a learning experience.

I thought the Wonder Bread thing was kind of a joke...it's kind of greasy and yucky.

 

 

Sure. It's pretty simple, a soft white art eraser can be used in the white areas of a comic, and carefully used in the colored areas. It removed dirt, writing, etc, without easily detectable residue or damage. They are probably more advanced ways of doing it, but that's the one I know of.

[COI]

Obviously, but that's because there is a direct correlation between the profitability of a practice and the prevalence of it. Pressing is more prevalent because it's more profitable, and in turn, it's fixated upon to a greater degree.

 

I'll give you most bronze and basically all moderns, but I would wager that dry cleaning is just as prevalent as pressing on silver age books and golden age books....and that's where state of preservation really ties into value. Keeping a 10 year old book clean and perfect? No big deal. Keeping a 60 year old book clean and perfect? Big money.

 

Didn't you just say "No dollars are tied to the practice of dry cleaning, therefore nobody cares"? Do you mean that people don't associate dry cleaning with money, or that there is no money in dry cleaning? Can dry cleaning take an 8.5 to a 9.6?

 

No money in the sense that you aren't going to get a grade bump in most cases by dry cleaning, but it likely changes the value just based on aesthetics. It makes the book prettier, so a clean 9.2 might bring more than a dirty 9.2. Harder to quantify, harder to prove than a 9.0 with NCB damage that jumps to a 9.6 after a press.

 

So yes, people don't associate dry cleaning with money as much as they associate pressing with money.

 

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

[october]

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

 

Maybe, but people here always lament the "preservation" of a book that's lost with pressing. That's not a grade, it's how the book survived the test of time. That's altered with dry cleaning as much or more than it is with pressing in some cases.

 

...and I am not sure I buy the pure collecting side of the argument either. Objections would be more convincing if high grade owners weren't sitting on a pile of assets being slowly depreciated by an influx of pressed books (money again).

[EastEnd]

I think dry cleaning can and often does improve the grade and certainly the eye appeal and attractiveness of the book. To me though it doesn't seem as controversial... I view it as akin to someone wiping the dust off an antique.

[comicdonna]

I just threw away the loaf of wonderbread, that was in the freezer.

[Transplant]

At what point will a potential conflict be too much? If we can trust that no one at CGC will know what books are worked on by CI, then why limit CI at all? Why make them subject to the same non-commercial buying/selling of slabbed books? For that matter why, if all grading is impartial and blind, would you limit any employee of CCG or CGC from commercially buying/selling slabbed books?

 

Surely there is some line that can be crossed where the marketplace will look up from its plate and say, no more. How about if CGC pays a bonus to graders for hitting a certain number of 9.8s during a month? Or a bonus for graders who never hit a 9.8? There's some point where people would have a conniption.

 

So the argument that no one should expect impartiality anymore doesn't hold much water. The question is really, where is the line?

[Jeffro.]

I just threw away the loaf of wonderbread, that was in the freezer.

 

Shoulda' thrown that bad boy up on ebay.

[COI]

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

 

Maybe, but people here always lament the "preservation" of a book that's lost with pressing. That's not a grade, it's how the book survived the test of time. That's altered with dry cleaning as much or more than it is with pressing in some cases.

 

...and I am not sure I buy the pure collecting side of the argument either. Objections would be more convincing if high grade owners weren't sitting on a pile of assets being slowly depreciated by an influx of pressed books (money again).

 

Clearly, money is a major issue, and it's also clear that there are parties on both sides of this debate that are full of it. But it isn't all about money, nor is this false dichotomy between "profiteers and false profiteers" sufficient to encapsulate the debate.

 

At this end of the hobby, there are razor thin lines separating collectors, dealers and investors. People calling themselves collectors justify spending more than they should on books because of their potential as investments; others calling themselves collectors buy, sell, and PCR one subset of books to be able to afford others. And even those who buy slabs with no intention of selling in the near future have to decide whether or not they're ok with spending $xxxx on Y in 9.4 that was previously sitting in a 9.0 holder.

 

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

[comicdonna]

I just threw away the loaf of wonderbread, that was in the freezer.

 

Shoulda' thrown that bad boy up on ebay.

It was actually half a loaf. It might of had some freezer burn too. The thought crossed my mind though.

[VintageComics]

At what point will a potential conflict be too much? If we can trust that no one at CGC will know what books are worked on by CI, then why limit CI at all? Why make them subject to the same non-commercial buying/selling of slabbed books? For that matter why, if all grading is impartial and blind, would you limit any employee of CCG or CGC from commercially buying/selling slabbed books?

 

Surely there is some line that can be crossed where the marketplace will look up from its plate and say, no more. How about if CGC pays a bonus to graders for hitting a certain number of 9.8s during a month? Or a bonus for graders who never hit a 9.8? There's some point where people would have a conniption.

 

So the argument that no one should expect impartiality anymore doesn't hold much water. The question is really, where is the line?

 

Great question.

 

 

[october]

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

 

Maybe, but people here always lament the "preservation" of a book that's lost with pressing. That's not a grade, it's how the book survived the test of time. That's altered with dry cleaning as much or more than it is with pressing in some cases.

 

...and I am not sure I buy the pure collecting side of the argument either. Objections would be more convincing if high grade owners weren't sitting on a pile of assets being slowly depreciated by an influx of pressed books (money again).

 

Clearly, money is a major issue, and it's also clear that there are parties on both sides of this debate that are full of it. But it isn't all about money, nor is this false dichotomy between "profiteers and false profiteers" sufficient to encapsulate the debate.

 

At this end of the hobby, there are razor thin lines separating collectors, dealers and investors. People calling themselves collectors justify spending more than they should on books because of their potential as investments; others calling themselves collectors buy, sell, and PCR one subset of books to be able to afford others. And even those who buy slabs with no intention of selling in the near future have to decide whether or not they're ok with spending $xxxx on Y in 9.4 that was previously sitting in a 9.0 holder.

 

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

 

Not much to argue with in that post.

 

It just rubs me the wrong way that a lot of anti-pressers always dress up their arguments in concern for the hobby, or the preservation state of the books, or the potential for damage, or just about anything not related to money when it's pretty clear that the top concern for both sides is just that.

[COI]

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

 

Maybe, but people here always lament the "preservation" of a book that's lost with pressing. That's not a grade, it's how the book survived the test of time. That's altered with dry cleaning as much or more than it is with pressing in some cases.

 

...and I am not sure I buy the pure collecting side of the argument either. Objections would be more convincing if high grade owners weren't sitting on a pile of assets being slowly depreciated by an influx of pressed books (money again).

 

Clearly, money is a major issue, and it's also clear that there are parties on both sides of this debate that are full of it. But it isn't all about money, nor is this false dichotomy between "profiteers and false profiteers" sufficient to encapsulate the debate.

 

At this end of the hobby, there are razor thin lines separating collectors, dealers and investors. People calling themselves collectors justify spending more than they should on books because of their potential as investments; others calling themselves collectors buy, sell, and PCR one subset of books to be able to afford others. And even those who buy slabs with no intention of selling in the near future have to decide whether or not they're ok with spending $xxxx on Y in 9.4 that was previously sitting in a 9.0 holder.

 

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

 

Not much to argue with in that post.

 

It just rubs me the wrong way that a lot of anti-pressers always dress up their arguments in concern for the hobby, or the preservation state of the books, or the potential for damage, or just about anything not related to money when it's pretty clear that the top concern for both sides is just that.

 

I hear you. Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

[TupennyConan]

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

 

In my post, I discussed 'these debates.' It takes two to debate. I include all those concerned, profiteers & frustrated profiteers & the long term investor known as the collector.

 

Every conservator's concerned over the price of acquisition & conservation.

 

All this money-worry has nothing to do with finding a worthless 50 year old copy of Ranger Rick, crumpled up in the attic, & immediately smoothing it out under the mattress so that it'll look better & store better with the other few thousand Ranger Ricks in the closet collection.

 

[TupennyConan]

Every person who subs wishes for the best grade achievable.

 

Every slab collector targets the best grade affordable.

 

To reach these goals folks would best be served subbing to CGC through CI.

 

Doing so will turn any potential conflict of interest into your higher grade advantage.