CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[Foolkiller]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

 

Are you getting universal disclosure? The problem is that since you can't always detect pressing, there are going to be tons of people who will continue to press covertly and not disclose.

 

On top of that, what about the tens of thousands of books pressed already sitting in blue label holders, what do we do about them?

 

Guys, there will never be a CGC disclosure of pressing on their label. Never. Ever.

 

Whether that's because of money or otherwise, I can only say that not enough people really exist to push them in that direction. As I mentioned, if you were one of the big clients, perhaps that'd be different.

[originalisbest]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

 

Told you I couldn't remember them all;)

 

 

I see low oxygen induced absent-mindedness soon making the cut.. you know, with all the trending talk about "natural" alteration...

 

 

! Tempest in a teapot comes to mind. Comicwiz and Dav seem the masters of it.

[comicwiz]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

 

Are you getting universal disclosure? The problem is that since you can't always detect pressing, there are going to be tons of people who will continue to press covertly and not disclose.

 

On top of that, what about the tens of thousands of books pressed already sitting in blue label holders, what do we do about them?

 

Guys, there will never be a CGC disclosure of pressing on their label. Never. Ever.

 

Whether that's because of money or otherwise, I can only say that not enough people really exist to push them in that direction. As I mentioned, if you were one of the big clients, perhaps that'd be different.

 

Brian, I see what you're saying, but all it takes is that one scan match-up to throw one's reputation to the wind.

 

Two weekends ago, I saw a piece that once belonged to me. It was being sold by a dealer at a show, and I immediately recognized it.

 

Then I noticed that the original price sticker had been removed. I'm not going to get too deep into the subject - suffice it to say that my views on this type of activity as being akin to someone taking a Church book, having it pressed, and making sure there's no notation on the label to allow anyone to make the connection to the books history, provenance, and grade bump.

 

During this time, the dealer kept showcasing the piece and remarking on how nice it was, yadda-yadda, and that there were no "hideous" price sticker on it.

 

I asked him point blank why he removed the price sticker and it stopped him in his tracks.

 

Now you might be thinking I'm begrudging the person for trying to make a wage off one of my pieces, but it isn't about that at all. It wasn't even the showboating built on pretense because I realize were all geeks - some to a greater extent than others - and that we can easily find ourselves getting carried away when we're passionate about the things we collect.

 

Make no mistake about it, the actions of this individual resulted in me walking away from his table because I couldn't trust him on any other pieces he was selling.

 

I see a discussion about confusing collectors being a sideshow antic to entertain and mostly mislead, and those who want to assume ringleader in the high-grade and rare comics manipulation machine better be prepared for the reputational hit.

 

It's a small world, made that much smaller by information which can instantly be recalled with the click of a mouse.

[MrBedrock]

Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

Did that have anything to do with any of Roy's posts?

[sterlingcomics]

I thought the Wonder Bread thing was kind of a joke...it's kind of greasy and yucky.

RIP Hostess.

[sterlingcomics]

During this time, the dealer kept showcasing the piece and remarking on how nice it was, yadda-yadda, and that there were no "hideous" price sticker on it.

 

I asked him point blank why he removed the price sticker and it stopped him in his tracks.

As in a sticker with a price on it? I'm confused. Or are you relating to the removal of provenance information from the slab akin to the price sticker conversation?

[Foolkiller]

Joe,

 

I'm sure that's true. But at the end of the day, pressing simply doesn't carry the same stigma, so even if someone is "caught" pressing, there won't be the same sense of revile.

 

The bottom line is that we all watched and applauded as comic prices shot up and we all became complicit in the system of CGC bolstering the values of our comic collections. Many of us crossed into being quasi dealers. There's no real reversing it now. There's too many pressed books already in blue labels, that you can't go back and stigmatize "some" of the books.

 

I'd suspect many collectors who have sat waiting to sell their books would be outraged that now we suddenly choose to mark certain books "pressed" because there was some arbitrary call to start labeling something with this mark when for over a decade nobody has said a word about it.

 

The reality is, when we call for the revelation of "pressed" books and "disclosure" I'm not trying to tell the people that they're not entitled to the information or that somehow they shouldn't ask for it. What I'm saying is that our hobby has evolved to a point that isn't going to now change back to something it used to be.

 

We've taken step forward in the evolution of the comic book hobby, for better or worse, and now we are living with the consequences of those choices -- for the most part, we made them all in unison. A few of the choices were made for us by a select group who saw an opportunity to make fortunes for themselves and have done so. A lot of us drank the kool-aid. It's not something you can take back.

[comicwiz]

During this time, the dealer kept showcasing the piece and remarking on how nice it was, yadda-yadda, and that there were no "hideous" price sticker on it.

 

I asked him point blank why he removed the price sticker and it stopped him in his tracks.

As in a sticker with a price on it? I

 

Yes. Some collectors will actually pay a premium for sealed toys (on card or boxed) bearing certain toy store price stickers.

[comicwiz]

Joe,

 

I'm sure that's true. But at the end of the day, pressing simply doesn't carry the same stigma, so even if someone is "caught" pressing, there won't be the same sense of revile.

 

The bottom line is that we all watched and applauded as comic prices shot up and we all became complicit in the system of CGC bolstering the values of our comic collections. Many of us crossed into being quasi dealers. There's no real reversing it now. There's too many pressed books already in blue labels, that you can't go back and stigmatize "some" of the books.

 

I'd suspect many collectors who have sat waiting to sell their books would be outraged that now we suddenly choose to mark certain books "pressed" because there was some arbitrary call to start labeling something with this mark when for over a decade nobody has said a word about it.

 

The reality is, when we call for the revelation of "pressed" books and "disclosure" I'm not trying to tell the people that they're not entitled to the information or that somehow they shouldn't ask for it. What I'm saying is that our hobby has evolved to a point that isn't going to now change back to something it used to be.

 

We've taken step forward in the evolution of the comic book hobby, for better or worse, and now we are living with the consequences of those choices -- for the most part, we made them all in unison. A few of the choices were made for us by a select group who saw an opportunity to make fortunes for themselves and have done so. A lot of us drank the kool-aid. It's not something you can take back.

 

Well said Brian.

[skypinkblu]

Joe,

 

I'm sure that's true. But at the end of the day, pressing simply doesn't carry the same stigma, so even if someone is "caught" pressing, there won't be the same sense of revile.

 

The bottom line is that we all watched and applauded as comic prices shot up and we all became complicit in the system of CGC bolstering the values of our comic collections. Many of us crossed into being quasi dealers. There's no real reversing it now. There's too many pressed books already in blue labels, that you can't go back and stigmatize "some" of the books.

 

I'd suspect many collectors who have sat waiting to sell their books would be outraged that now we suddenly choose to mark certain books "pressed" because there was some arbitrary call to start labeling something with this mark when for over a decade nobody has said a word about it.

 

The reality is, when we call for the revelation of "pressed" books and "disclosure" I'm not trying to tell the people that they're not entitled to the information or that somehow they shouldn't ask for it. What I'm saying is that our hobby has evolved to a point that isn't going to now change back to something it used to be.

 

We've taken step forward in the evolution of the comic book hobby, for better or worse, and now we are living with the consequences of those choices -- for the most part, we made them all in unison. A few of the choices were made for us by a select group who saw an opportunity to make fortunes for themselves and have done so. A lot of us drank the kool-aid. It's not something you can take back.

 

We could have a new label, Hot Pink (they haven't used that one yet;) NATURAL comics, complete with spine rolls and pen indentations)

 

I don't think as many books have been pressed as you make it sound Brian...just think of all the collectors who never heard of this site;)

 

I think eBay touched a lot of people who never knew all these wonderful old books existed, I know it made a difference to me, and because of the internet, you are right things changed...however

 

if the kool-aid has not killed you yet, you can always do a purge;)

[Foolkiller]

That's true Sharon, but again, I think that comic books have become money first for many of us here on the boards and everything else second. I include myself in that analysis.

 

It's hard to reverse that. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away.

[COI]

Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

Did that have anything to do with any of Roy's posts?

 

It had everything to do with Roy's posts. Roy is the reason I post here.

[seanfingh]

Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

Did that have anything to do with any of Roy's posts?

 

It had everything to do with Roy's posts. Roy is the reason I post here.

 

Slut.

[Boozad]

I think that comic books have become money first for many of us here on the boards and everything else second. I include myself in that analysis.

 

It's hard to reverse that. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away.

 

A lot of truth right there. I got eaten up by the hobby and tied myself in knots towards the end of 2010, I lost all interest as I'd completely lost sight of why I originally got back into collecting. I stepped away and cut myself off completely (although that was only a small part of the reasons why) and now I've come back I'm enjoying the books I'm tracking down that I really want.

 

I no longer care if my Modern is 9.4 and not 9.8, and I have little to no interest in slabs. I'm considering cracking my Batman #251 9.4 to see it in a Mylar, the resale value means little as it's one of the few books I intend to keep. I do have thoughts about what CGC are doing, but ultimately I don't particularly care anymore as it's a game I've got no real interest in playing. And I'm much happier for it.

[comicwiz]

I think that comic books have become money first for many of us here on the boards and everything else second. I include myself in that analysis.

 

It's hard to reverse that. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away.

 

A lot of truth right there. I got eaten up by the hobby and tied myself in knots towards the end of 2010, I lost all interest as I'd completely lost sight of why I originally got back into collecting. I stepped away and cut myself off completely (although that was only a small part of the reasons why) and now I've come back I'm enjoying the books I'm tracking down that I really want.

 

I no longer care if my Modern is 9.4 and not 9.8, and I have little to no interest in slabs. I'm considering cracking my Batman #251 9.4 to see it in a Mylar, the resale value means little as it's one of the few books I intend to keep. I do have thoughts about what CGC are doing, but ultimately I don't particularly care anymore as it's a game I've got no real interest in playing. And I'm much happier for it.

 

Over the past few years, I found a lot of enjoyment collecting odd formats and things which can't be slabbed or that people don't bother slabbing. Treasuries, digests, multi-packs - speaking of which, I've got a Batman 251 in a sealed 3-pack. That one's a keeper

[COI]

Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

Did that have anything to do with any of Roy's posts?

 

It had everything to do with Roy's posts. Roy is the reason I post here.

 

Slut.

 

Don't be jelly. I'll break you off a piece too.

[Davenport]

It's hard to reverse that. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away.

But not walk away empty handed...

 

New-tech is just beginning to engage Fandom in fresh and exciting ways. Everything that has gone before, and everything coming down the pike, is being (re)presented in formats that don't dent, curl, bend, tone, flake, or crumble.

 

All the sizzle, none of the burn.

 

Comic book fans live in very exciting times, unique in all the history of the medium.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

Some time ago, I crossed over from being annoyed at the whole thing to being amused by it.

Did that have anything to do with any of Roy's posts?

 

It had everything to do with Roy's posts. Roy is the reason I post here.

 

Slut.

 

Don't be jelly. I'll break you off a piece too.

 

Pieces of Roy.

[TupennyConan]

It's hard to reverse that. Sometimes the best thing to do is to walk away.

But not walk away empty handed...

 

New-tech is just beginning to engage Fandom in fresh and exciting ways. Everything that has gone before, and everything coming down the pike, is being (re)presented in formats that don't dent, curl, bend, tone, flake, or crumble.

 

All the sizzle, none of the burn.

 

Comic book fans live in very exciting times, unique in all the history of the medium.

 

 

I think money's to be made in rehydrating brittle pages.

[ComicConnoisseur]

At the core of these debates is petty, envious, even spiteful, handwringing over comic book profits. Who’s making them? Who isn’t? How much & how?

 

Definitely.

 

Nobody bothered to answer the question I posed a few dozen pages back. I asked why people who claim to object to pressing because of preservation issues don't spend 1% of that energy also objecting to dry cleaning, which can (and does) alter the appearance more than pressing many cases. Pedigree marks, arrival or date writing, dirt, dust shadows....all erased in many documented cases in order to hide the history of a book or make it look like it survived in better shape than it actually did.

 

It's an easy answer though, just not one they want to hear. No dollars are tied to the practice of dry cleaning, therefore nobody cares.

 

It's all about the money, always has been about the money, and always will be about the money.

Which leads to distrust the system.

Eventually a time in the future the majority of the people will not care if the comic book is a high grade comic book do to mistrust.

An example would be

Who cares if the comic book is a 9.6 or a 9.8?

If they think some shenanigans behind the scenes had to be done to it to get that high grade.

Once the majority of comic collectors think this way, then game over.