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Krazy Krow # 1 Grade - Puzzled

Started by Moondog,

21 posts in this topic

Moondog

Moondog

Posted
Posted

This copy of Krazy Krow # 1 is in the latest Heritage auction. I own it. When I saw that it came back from CGC as an 8.5 I was stunned. I assumed it would be a 9.2 minimum. By my estimation, this is the best 8.5 in the auction. In fact there are many other 9.0's and 9.2's that don't look as nice.

 

I wish I could post the larger scan but it wouldn't allow me. You can also see it at the Heritage auction:

 

http://apps.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=812&Lot_No=2418&zoom=1

 

You guys have more experience in this area than I do. What am I overlooking? Honest opinions, please. My feelings won't be hurt.

 

Thanks.

 

--Gary

589a8cc5b74a3_549314-KrazyKrow.jpg.332cd896c9ad76cecad00f31f86d5f66.jpg

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

I can see no reason why it would grade lower than 9.2 - It looks like at least a 9.4 to me. Of course, it's possible something could show up in person not evident in the scan - what are the grader's notes. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever buys this resubs it.

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jimm94

jimm94

Posted
Posted

Hi Gary,

 

Congrats on the win. It's a gorgeous book. cloud9.gif

 

There's an accumulation of defects that I think keep it out of 9.0 or higher:

 

1. Right edge is miscut, resulting in a slanted edge.

 

2. Top right edge of front cover has about an inch long non-color breaking crease

 

3. One of the spine stresses (the one above the left hand character's hat) appears to be fairly significant although it does not break color through its' entire length

 

4. Top left corner front cover has a very small bindery tear

 

5. Bottom right corner back cover also appears to have a very small bindery tear

 

Do you have the book in hand yet? I just got my shipment today from the auction that ended on July 18th. Keep in mind that the over brightness/contrast of Heritage's scans masks defects. You'll be able to get a better look in person, but still not as good of a look as CGC did before it was slabbed.

 

Regards,

 

-Jim

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RareHighGrade

RareHighGrade

Posted
Posted

Just by way of example, here is a book in the current Heritage auction -- More Fun # 92 -- that is graded 9.6:

 

http://apps.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=751&Lot_No=3609&zoom=1

 

It has, among other things, a chip out of the lower left spine corner, a blunted lower right corner and stress around the upper staple.

 

It's also interesting to note that only last year, this same book was being offered in the Heritage March 2003 auction as a CGC 9.2:

 

http://apps.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=806&Lot_No=5963&src=pr

 

I'm a big fan of CGC, but some of this stuff is hard to explain.

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aardvark88

aardvark88

Posted
Posted

The Krazy Krow #1 looks like it should be at least Cgc 9.0 even with the 1 stress on front cover spine & bindery corner tear evident at bottom of spine back cover. It's all a matter of timing. Perhaps the Krow #1 looked "ordinary" after they just graded over 100 ultra hi-grade Fawcetts from the Crowley collection Cgc 9.0 - 9.6. shocked.gif

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tb

tb

Posted
Posted

I'm a big fan of CGC too, but their system is not perfect.

The reality is that each grading is a statistical, random

sample of the distribution function for that particular book.

As such, the best you ever could do numerically would be to

assign it an average grade and deviation spread showing how

experts are likely to differ (Sotheby's tried something like

that back in the 90s for certain valuable books, before CGC

came along - those grades are IMO the most accurate ever

assigned to comic books). I think CGC's approach is a reasonable,

pragmatic compromise; you just have to see each slabbed label

as the outcome of small random sampling with an inherent error

built into it.

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r100comics

r100comics

Posted
Posted

This is an attractive book, however the main flaw that has graded it down to 8.5 is the non-color breaking 1/2 inch f.c. top right bend.

 

If anyone is looking for a great example of a book that would benefit from pressing, this is it. I would not be surprised to see this re-submitted for a 9.4 if this bend can be pressed out. IMO, all of the other minor flaws are permissable even up to Golden Age 9.6. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted
This is an attractive book, however the main flaw that has graded it down to 8.5 is the non-color breaking 1/2 inch f.c. top right bend.

 

If anyone is looking for a great example of a book that would benefit from pressing, this is it. I would not be surprised to see this re-submitted for a 9.4 if this bend can be pressed out. IMO, all of the other minor flaws are permissable even up to Golden Age 9.6. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I was focussing on that area too but are you sure it is a bend? I can't tell. It looks like the ink is lighter in that area. Maybe a printing defect or slight moisture?

 

Regardless, looks like a good resub candidate.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
I'm a big fan of CGC, but some of this stuff is hard to explain.

 

What's most amusing about that grade, is that the CGC 9.2 copy had a complete spine, while the CGC 9.6 has a chunk missing.

 

Personally, the 9.2 looked far better. foreheadslap.gif

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Moondog

Moondog

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks, everyone for the keen insight. I think the top right corner bend is the culprit. Though I didn't think it that big a deal when I first inspected it.

 

I must also explain that I'm selling the book in this auction - not buying. When I consigned it to Heritage they sent it to CGC for grading. That's why I was "stunned" to see that it only received an 8.5. Ed Jaster and I both thought 9.2.

 

As an aside, I bought it last year from a woman who had put together the most amazing Timely/Atlas/Marvel collection I've ever encountered. Every teen/romance/humor/female super-hero title that T/A/M ever put out - and it was 95% complete. Even a Girl Comics # 3. In the past year I sold about 500 books to a couple of Atlas completists. The remainder I'm bringing to this year's Chicago show.

 

What a company T/A/M was. This collection had nearly 3,000 non-super hero, non-war, non westerns, non science ficiton, non-horror, etc.! God, they published a lot of stuff!

 

Regards,

 

--Gary

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted

I think the top right corner bend is the culprit. Though I didn't think it that big a deal when I first inspected it.

 

I am still not sure that is a bend. Can someone, perhaps with a bettter video setup than mine, confirm? Look at the consistency of the lighter color at the left part of the anomaly. Especially the lower edge of it. It doesn;t look bendy to me - rather spread out and a titch dispersed, as does the whole bottom edge. It looks like it is lacking a sharper deliniation a bend usually produces. But what do I know?

 

(See attach - still waiting for return of web server)

549838-bend.jpg.321200cb84beacb27474ff893d76540b.jpg

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Moondog

Moondog

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Poverty:

 

I'm with you. The book lays flat. One wouldn't just assume that there's a bend there.

 

I loved this book. It's only the second one I've ever owned. The white pages are very white and if you're familiar with Timely's from that era, they had a "thick" paper that had an almost parchment-like quality.

 

I'm just so disappointed in this grade. I too love CGC, but it's maddening when something like this happens. Compare it to the Daredevil # 1 in the same auction and on the face value of it, it makes absolutely no sense to me how they both have the same grade.

 

http://apps.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=812&Lot_No=2506&zoom=1

 

Oh, well. Thanks again for the info.

 

--Gary

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r100comics

r100comics

Posted
Posted

The cause of the upper right corner damage appears to be a ding. As a result, this has left it with a non-color breaking bend, that may or may not carry through the book. Either way, still a perfect example of a pressing candidate IMO. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted

What concerns me most about this is that the price difference between a 9.2 and a 9.6 is HUGE! I actually belive CGC makes quite a few mistakes and would guess the margin of error is +/-1 meaning an 8.0 book could be as low as a 7.0.

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted

OK - just got grader notes from CGC. Looks like top right is indeed a bend. Notes as follows:

 

0093162015

Krazy Krow #1

Spine stress and wear

top right corner - crease throughout the book

2 inch corner crease back of book

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Moondog

Moondog

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Poverty:

 

Thanks for taking the time to research this for me. If I read these notes without seeing the book, I may not grade it as high as 8.5!

 

I guess this situation is not unique. Kinda reminds me of the old axiom that sellers see less problems with a book than buyers.

 

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

 

--Gary

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted
OK - just got grader notes from CGC. Looks like top right is indeed a bend. Notes as follows:

 

0093162015

Krazy Krow #1

Spine stress and wear

top right corner - crease throughout the book

2 inch corner crease back of book

 

If there's a two-inch corner crease on the back of that book, I sure as hell can't see it. 893whatthe.gif

 

If that top right corner bend goes through the entire book, then I think it was accurately graded at 8.5. Yet another example of how Heritage's superbright scans can hide defects. mad.gif

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Bonds25

Bonds25

Posted
Posted

It looks a heck of a lot better than a 8.5 to me. I see some stress marks on the spine that would bring it down to a 9.0 or 9.2, but everything else about the book is gorgeous.

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