What is the future of extensively restored keys?

[bluechip]

David, minor restoration should not and does not diminish any GA and SA book. I also find the fact that tape is not considered resto to be confusing as to determine what is resto what is not. The simple fact is this resto business is a mess, and who determines what is good or bad, or mod or major....that blows with the wind.

 

But the Tec 35 is more than just a "face-lift", it more like a head transplant. I do not know if the book ever looked that good coming off the newstand. That is my point...more comic than comic or more human than human...better than when it came off the newstand.

 

That is the advantage of a Blue label book.....little disagreement as to grade or minor tweaking.

 

But David M with all due respect...I am not gonna shut up about a "doppelganger" newstand new ( see Journey to the Far Side of the Sun) resto job that takes a book that was decapitated down the entire right side...and then like magic it looks brand spanking new....

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing that colored labels most certainly do not do is create an environment of "little disagreement."

 

In the very same post, you lament that books with tape are not also branded with the purple label. Just as many would like pressed books to be in purple labels. Look for two minutes on this forum to find people saying this book deserved the blue label or that book did not.

 

It simply is, and always will be, less effective, and more contentious, to use colors to denote "good" or "bad" as opposed to words that can describe things in a simple and factual manner, without emotion or any appearance of an attempt to create an emotional response.

 

 

 

 

 

[G.A.tor]

I'm looking into purchasing a extensively restored big key. But what does everyone think the future value of them will be? They have gone up but obviously not as much as unrestored copies.

AJ

The best way to find out is buy one,then try to sell it.

Only then will you know the true answer.

btw I am not trying to be a wise arse,but that`s really the best way to learn.

You will also learn which people gave you good info or bs.

in the past few years I have bought and profitably sold millions of dollars of restored books and I just this year have spent a ton on them. So I am obviously in the believer camp

[AnkurJ]

I will buy purple label books AS LONG AS they are priced accordingly.

 

It seems for big keys some people have purple label books and want blue label prices.

[G.A.tor]

I will buy purple label books AS LONG AS they are priced accordingly.

 

It seems for big keys some people have purple label books and want blue label prices.

sound logic. Someone else mentioned value restored at lowest estimated value pre resto. That is a good formula. Seems for extensive mega keys , they are typically priced at 8-15% of unrestored grade counterparts. There once was a rule of thumb that ext was 15%, mod 20-25% and slight 35-50 but there really is no universal rule of thumb that can be used. Just take it on a book by book basis.

 

That said there are a few restored books I would gladly pay multiples of unrestored "guide" for...if such existed

[AnkurJ]

"That said there are a few restored books I would gladly pay multiples of unrestored "guide" for...if such existed "

 

Care to elaborate?

[G.A.tor]

"That said there are a few restored books I would gladly pay multiples of unrestored "guide" for...if such existed "

 

Care to elaborate?

books like amazing man 26 (2 restored copies sold for about 20x unrestored guide last year). And there are many other rare books that the guide is not relevant and I would love to even find a restored copy of

[AnkurJ]

Gottcha...is Suspense 3 one of them?

[PovertyRow]

In the future, premium keys that have not been CGC'D and have not been pressed will be what the collectors want -

 

untouched, ungraded gems, from old school comic dealers.

 

WTH are you talking about? Not been CGC'D (sic)? Not been pressed? Have you come up with The Pressing Algorithm? You should use your ignorance to go back to libeling the current Sparkle City.

[PovertyRow]

But the Tec 35 is more than just a "face-lift", it more like a head transplant. I do not know if the book ever looked that good coming off the newstand. That is my point

 

That is my point and I have expressed it before. You don't know. Exactly how much of that Tec is not original? Please tell us. Your assessment is more like an arse-essment.

You seem have no soul as far as a collector/lover of books goes. Your posts are centered on $$$. That is your bottom line. Money. Is that all you see these books as? A commodity?

[G.A.tor]

Gottcha...is Suspense 3 one of them?

not for me but most restored copies do sell over guide

[Larryw7]

But the Tec 35 is more than just a "face-lift", it more like a head transplant. I do not know if the book ever looked that good coming off the newstand. That is my point

 

That is my point and I have expressed it before. You don't know. Exactly how much of that Tec is not original? Please tell us. Your assessment is more like an arse-essment.

You seem have no soul as far as a collector/lover of books goes. Your posts are centered on $$$. That is your bottom line. Money. Is that all you see these books as? A commodity?

 

Amen!

[Larryw7]

I agree with interior lightened. And just as an example, this book might get extensive resto, but its hardly a franken book. The majority of the work was solid color on the spine.

 

The book I am considering is a 9.2 extensive in an older slab. So who knows what it was before. It could be anywhere from a 1.0 to a 4.0.

 

 

 

This what a Replicant looks like.......

 

More comic book than comic book....(more human than human.....Tyrell Corp)

 

You are buying what stuff dreams are made of......

 

Wake up..time to buy( not die)....unrestored or mod resto only ....your friend Roy Batty

 

 

 

I think it's a nice book, and probably looks beautiful in a mylar.

Agreed, they did a nice job here. And saved a wonderful book. Maybe we should not restore cars either, that way they just rust and die. And we can have one or two in the smithsonian, where true collectors put their stuff.

 

Agreed, this is a POS that I would never want to own.

[Boba]

Agreed, they did a nice job here. And saved a wonderful book. Maybe we should not restore cars either, that way they just rust and die. And we can have one or two in the smithsonian, where true collectors put their stuff.

 

Exactly. This is a good analogy. Similarly original vs restored cars are worth more, but both are still valued by collectors albeit differently. You are more likely to read (drive) a restored mega key that an unrestored one.

[DeliBebek]

you have to give me credit.....I Did say spend money on Mod restored books.....mellowing out with age

 

and if you start using a 70 year old MAN as an example (because there are plenty of them with extensive resto) ...I''ll REALLY be proud of you;)

 

So was born the Bruce Jenner scale of comic book restoration. If we add this to G.A.tor's scale, it takes it to 11, which is meta cool.

[AnkurJ]

What makes it easier for me is that most of these books I bought years ago and have very little into them vs what they are worth today. So it is cost effective for me to restore them. At this point in time, I have a Detective 28 and a Action 13 with Matt Nelson as we speak.

[jdjunker]

I will buy purple label books AS LONG AS they are priced accordingly.

 

It seems for big keys some people have purple label books and want blue label prices.

sound logic. Someone else mentioned value restored at lowest estimated value pre resto. That is a good formula. Seems for extensive mega keys , they are typically priced at 8-15% of unrestored grade counterparts. There once was a rule of thumb that ext was 15%, mod 20-25% and slight 35-50 but there really is no universal rule of thumb that can be used. Just take it on a book by book basis.

 

That said there are a few restored books I would gladly pay multiples of unrestored "guide" for...if such existed

 

Back in the day Overstreet used to advocate for restored prices as a average of the pre and post restored grades. Of course at that time the GD/FN/NM price scale was just 1-2-3.

 

As has been mentioned earlier, if CGC were to change how they treat restored books (expanding the scale, providing more detailed info, possibly estimating a "pre-restoration" grade) it would certainly help restored books come to a more reasonable market value.

 

That said, I do think the "plod" label has taken too much blame for the bottoming out of restored prices/values. Seems to me it's just as likely that it was CGC's detection of previously unknown/undeclared restoration that added to the negative feelings in the hobby.

 

Restoring/preserving a low grade book in dire straights is one thing, but the manipulation of mid to high grade books to squeeze out more profit and then not disclosing the work is what has made restoration such a hot button issue. In a sense, CGC was just delivering the bad news to many unsuspecting collectors.

 

We have seen the enemy and he is us.

[bluechip]

I will buy purple label books AS LONG AS they are priced accordingly.

 

It seems for big keys some people have purple label books and want blue label prices.

sound logic. Someone else mentioned value restored at lowest estimated value pre resto. That is a good formula. Seems for extensive mega keys , they are typically priced at 8-15% of unrestored grade counterparts. There once was a rule of thumb that ext was 15%, mod 20-25% and slight 35-50 but there really is no universal rule of thumb that can be used. Just take it on a book by book basis.

 

That said there are a few restored books I would gladly pay multiples of unrestored "guide" for...if such existed

 

Back in the day Overstreet used to advocate for restored prices as a average of the pre and post restored grades. Of course at that time the GD/FN/NM price scale was just 1-2-3.

 

As has been mentioned earlier, if CGC were to change how they treat restored books (expanding the scale, providing more detailed info, possibly estimating a "pre-restoration" grade) it would certainly help restored books come to a more reasonable market value.

 

That said, I do think the "plod" label has taken too much blame for the bottoming out of restored prices/values. Seems to me it's just as likely that it was CGC's detection of previously unknown/undeclared restoration that added to the negative feelings in the hobby.

 

Restoring/preserving a low grade book in dire straights is one thing, but the manipulation of mid to high grade books to squeeze out more profit and then not disclosing the work is what has made restoration such a hot button issue. In a sense, CGC was just delivering the bad news to many unsuspecting collectors.

 

We have seen the enemy and he is us.

 

One indication of how the label color affects price is the sales figures for books in blue labels with notations of color touch or glue, etc. If it was just about the resto, there would be no difference. In fact, if it was just about identifying the resto, then people who hate resto would presumably prefer labels to have detailed descriptions of the work done, as opposed to the simplistic label colors which have come to denote not whether a book appears better than it used to, but whether it's been altered by a person with an intent that is "good" or "bad." Condition grades and identification of resto should be done as free as possible of emotional indicators. Some hate resto, and some hate tape; some hate writing on covers or inside the book; some hate slightly brittle pages as much as pages falling apart; some hate brown pages or faded colors on the cover. Any of those things would keep some buyers away. Some even people hate books with signatures of the writers and artists. But not everybody does. And even if every did hate one or more of those defects, it still would not be a good thing to go beyond simply identifying those defects and add on label colors which say this book or that makes some people angry and want to avoid the book, so it must make you angry and want to avoid it, too. Even if that was not the intent, on any level, by anyone, at the beginning, it has evolved into that. And the people who advocate the most fervently for the PLOD say it should be continued not despite the fact it has devolved into that but specifically because it has devolved into that.

 

[Ze-man]

What makes it easier for me is that most of these books I bought years ago and have very little into them vs what they are worth today. So it is cost effective for me to restore them

 

I think you answered your own question Ankur.

 

Cost effective.

 

You got in early, buying up more key parts then most anybody I know. Which is totally different then buying an already restored mega key now.

 

You can pick and chose from your own stock as to what to restore and still come out ahead.

 

But, deals can be had if you know what to look for, especially if you re restore previously poor work on mega keys.

 

If that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Grumbledook]

I just got back into collecting comics recently - and was more focused on Silver Age (Marvel). At first I was totally OK with restored comics (no matter how extensive) because they were affordable and looked nice. Then after getting more experience with the current marketplace (and these boards) I was turned off of them because of the general distaste of them among board members (and watching them not sell on ebay auctions). This was mostly because the idea of low resale value was imprinted in my mind.

Having attained most of my wish list for SA Marvels, Ive turned my attention to Golden Age comics. My opinion of PLoDs for GA is much different because they are much scarcer - in any condition.

For GA I have no problem getting either coverless or PLoDs. Partly because the supply is so much lower, but also because with GAs I feel I want them less for the same reasons I started collecting SAs. those were the stories I read in Marvel Saga and Marvel Tales and were issues I wanted as a kid. I didnt read DC so didnt have the same connection to GAs. But after reading a lot about the history of comics - the artists, publishers, trials (SOTI and DC copyright), I came to appreciate GAs more as historical relics of the birth of comics and superheroes.

FF1 and AF15 I wanted more because those were the books I always wanted to get as a kid (when they could be bought for hundreds). And I identified them as the source of the characters I read about in the 80s comics I was buying off the stands.

But GAs I want because they represent a distant era when comics were a Depression era kids only luxury and they were read by dozens of kids as it was passed around, images of newstands loaded with DCs and timelys and Fawcetts, bonfires of comics being burned in reaction to the gory twist they took, feeling the cheap newsprint thats lasted almost 80 years.

Thats why I dont care if GAs I get are beat up, coverless, or restored. Either way the heart of that comic is a piece of american history that I really enjoy having in my possession.

But I understand it also depends whether you want them as a collector or investor.

[Sqeggs]

Great post. (thumbs u