White Rose Pedigree? ANY Pedigrees?

[Rival61-migration]

Has anyone ever heard of the "White Rose Pedigree", or have any info on it? I recently received my winnings from Heritage, Captain Marvel #50-62. They were advertised as having that particular pedigree, and if I submit them to CGC, will they recognize that one? I will have to state that they all look like solid 9.6-9.8 candidates, and they are all cut perfectly centered.

 

For that matter, is there a definitive list of pedigrees that CGC recognizes? I have seen only Mile High (Edgar Church), Mile High II, and Western Penn so far personally on any labels.

 

-Thanks!

 

-Rival

[Mephisto]

Has anyone ever heard of the "White Rose Pedigree", or have any info on it? I recently received my winnings from Heritage, Captain Marvel #50-62. They were advertised as having that particular pedigree, and if I submit them to CGC, will they recognize that one? I will have to state that they all look like solid 9.6-9.8 candidates, and they are all cut perfectly centered.

 

For that matter, is there a definitive list of pedigrees that CGC recognizes? I have seen only Mile High (Edgar Church), Mile High II, and Western Penn so far personally on any labels.

 

-Thanks!

 

-Rival

 

Run a search here there was a list posted of ones known that CGC recognizes. I'm not so sure that CGC recognize the White Rose though. You might want to PM Borock and ask him. This thread has several posts with a few lists of recognized Pedigrees http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=490000&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

[Murph]

Heritage had a full catalog of books from the White Rose collection around this time last year. Some were nice books, some were mid-grade. The majority of the collection was offered raw, but of the books that were CGC'd I didn't see any with a White Rose designation. This isn't an original owner collection and therefore not a pedigree designation. So, unless something has changed, CGC doesn't view the White Rose collection as a pedigree.

And since I'm a nice guy, I'll write what was in the intro to the White Rose catalog:

"Assembled by two brothers with an insatiable love of comics, and a discerning eye for quality, White Rose is one of the finest collections of Golden Age comics we've ever seen. We note numerous true treasures within, primarily Timelys. The 2nd-highest graded copy of Marvel Comics #1 awaits you, as well as beautiful examples of other Timely keys.....

It doesn't end there. There's a sperb example of Action #1 in CGC blue label FN- 5.5 and even a smattering of Silver Age such as AF 15, ASM 1, JIM 83, and FF 1. To sweeten the pot even further, some truly important pedigrees are represented in this collection, including Mile High, Larson, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Rockford, Cosmic Aeroplane and S.F."

[Mephisto]

So in other words these books would be more of a From the Collection of...

[shadroch]

If the White Rose collection includes books from all those pedigrees,I assume it won't achive pedigree status.

Its really all semantics,anyway,as far as I'm concerned.

J Greene spent stoopid money last year on a collection of bronze books that was supposed to be the finest run/accumilation in existance.But if he submits them to CGC they won't get a pedigree because he wasn't the original owner. Yet if the original owner,or the consigner, SNE,submitted these same books prior to JGreene buying them,they most likely would have gotten a pedigree.I suppose this makes sense to some people.

[fantastic_four]

J Greene spent stoopid money last year on a collection of bronze books that was supposed to be the finest run/accumilation in existance.But if he submits them to CGC they won't get a pedigree because he wasn't the original owner. Yet if the original owner,or the consigner, SNE,submitted these same books prior to JGreene buying them,they most likely would have gotten a pedigree.I suppose this makes sense to some people.

 

That's not necessarily true. JGreene submitted all the books and they were of a very high quality, and if there were really nice Silver books in there since CGC claims they won't give pedigree status to Bronze-only collections, and he got Dan Greenhalgh to verify their provenance, then it's possible that CGC would recognize it as a pedigree. Most of the Curator and Pacific Coast books were already sold by John Hauser and Rob Roter before CGC ever came into existence, yet their owners were still able to get the pedigree recognized.

 

I'm pretty sure Roter made the case to CGC for Pacific Coast, but I don't think it was Hauser who did it for Curator, although I could be wrong. I think the guy he sold most of them to initiated the request with CGC since he's the one who submitted most of the runs; Hauser just verified the provenance when asked.

[PovertyRow]

J Greene spent stoopid money last year on a collection of bronze books that was supposed to be the finest run/accumilation in existance.But if he submits them to CGC they won't get a pedigree because he wasn't the original owner. Yet if the original owner,or the consigner, SNE,submitted these same books prior to JGreene buying them,they most likely would have gotten a pedigree.I suppose this makes sense to some people.

 

If I'm reading this right, the fact that JG bought them shouldn't impact the pedigree status. If they all came from the same owner, and if that same owner was the orignal purchaser, the pedigree status should be valid, no?

[sfilosa]

First - CGC does not recognize White Rose as a Pedigree

 

Second - CGC recognizes around 50 pedigrees

 

Third - I have bought many White Rose books from Heritage. In some cases they appear better than the grade and other times worse. Good Luck.

[shadroch]

Most of the best known pedigrees were around and broken up long before CGC came into existence.

I think I remember reading on these boards that JGreenes books wouldn't qualify for a pedigree and might get a collection status.Perhaps its because they were bronze books.

[fantastic_four]

Perhaps its because they were bronze books.

 

Back when I was doing pedigree research--before I realized Matt Nelson was writing a book on the topic--I talked to Mark Haspel for an hour or so about pedigrees, and he did say that they don't give pedigree status to any Bronze-only or later collections.

[Murph]

CGC doesn't even identify modern pedigree books with the pedigree designation. Didn't they say they would after 10 years or something like that? I remember specifically asking about the Western Penn ASM 300.

 

Brian

[tth2]

I'm pretty sure Roter made the case to CGC for Pacific Coast

 

Surprisingly, the opposite is true. From what I've been told, it was another dealer, who also had direct access to the PC OO, who sought pedigree status from CGC. Roter was actually pretty opposed to CGC recognizing the books submitted by this dealer. However, the dealer persevered with assistance from the OO and some of the BSDs who had purchased the PC runs (from Roter and also from this other dealer) and got the pedigree recognized, as it clearly deserved to be.

 

RR was too smart a businessman to fight it once the battle was lost and decided to join them, and to his credit was very good about providing me with the necessary provenance to support the pedigree status of some PC books that I submitted.

[fantastic_four]

Surprisingly, the opposite is true.

 

Oh yea, I remember you telling this story in the Silver forum recently. I seem to recall you also mentioning that Roter originally threatened to sue CGC for using part of his company's name in the pedigree title.

[joe_collector]

Roter originally threatened to sue CGC for using part of his company's name in the pedigree title.

 

I heard Chuckles did just the opposite.

 

"You put that old fart Church's name in there, and I'll visit you personally Borock!!"