How do you feel about previous owners 'improving' a page

[Hekla]

What things have previous page owners done to an OA piece (most likely with good intentions) but detracted from your appreciation of the page

 

I recently purchased my first silver age OA piece - an Infantino Flash page - and it looks great. Problem is, when I received it, there was a plastic coating on it - not laminated, and it appears to peel off fairly easily, but it don't want to for fear of damaging the inks. The page is in great shape due to the coating, but I was still a little disappointed. The coating was not mentioned when I initially contacted the dealer and we have since reached an agreement. I'm not sure if/how much this impacts the value of the page, but i did not feel it was enough to return the page.

 

Another example: One aspect of my appreciating an older page is the writing in the margins (penciler notes to inker, editor notes, etc.) since I see a page as a historical document as well as art. I've seen a few notes slightly erased or trimmed off.

[AKA Rick]

I think anything that happens to a page in the aftermarket impacts the desirability.

 

These are one of a kind items, so irreplaceable and unique, so it's not like a buyer can find another one in better condition.

 

However, certain collectors factor in certain "flaws" in what they're willing to pay or if it's worthy of inclusion into their collection.

 

Most collectors within any hobby prefer items "as is" without any restoration or improvements made with good intent.

 

I'd say lamination is LAMEination, and the plastic coating would be a deal breaker for me, even 'tho the page is one of a kind, it's not one I'd want in my collection.

 

Production notes by the artist(s) to me is not bothersome, since original art was created for production, and wasn't designed as a collectible. Same goes for the publisher's copyright stamps on the back side or titles on the top.

 

What I personally don't like is when the art dealers put their rubber ink stamps on the back of artwork or stickers, or write prices, even if in pencil on the back or upper left corner margins. To me, if a dealer is going to write a price, why not just bag the artwork, seal the bag, and put a sticker on the bag?

 

I don't mind pages that are cut on the corners or sliced on the top, as that's typical of silver and bronze age artwork.

 

I don't like pages that are trimmed. I know that DC and Dark Horse uses pages that are slightly larger than 11" x 17" and inker, Dexter Vines even told me, he trims the non-art boarders ever so slightly so they fit in an 11" x 17" portfolio to bring to conventions for sale. I'd personally rather have the pages unaltered.

 

Word balloons, thought bubbles and any paste-ups and stats. If it's part of the original art, as common pre-Y2K art of the digital age, it's fine. If any paste-up becomes detached, I'd not reattach it, but keep it separate from the art and store it neatly. If any paste-up is missing, it's disheartening, but I'd not create a replica replacement nor would that aesthetic bother me

 

Stats, that are created in the aftermarket in an attempt to make an art piece more complete, and I think there was a discussion of a few pieces by Coollines where they did that. That's self-manufactured, so I consider it restoration and alteration and it actually does the reverse to me and I'd devalue the art a bit less than if it were "as is"

 

Coloring, unless colored by the original colorist and used for publication, I'd not be a fan of colors. If you own the original and want it colored, I'd recommend making a copy and having the copy colored and leave the original intact. Same goes for penciled artwork, especially in today's post-Y2K art like stuff by Michael Turner, I'd leave the pencils virgin, and if you have to get it inked, get a copy inked, that's my opinion.

 

Touch Ups. If you have a piece and there's missing black ink or chipped white-out, I'd simply say, leave it alone "as is" don't try to play doctor and fill in pieces. Just like if a piece is ripped o has a tear, I'd not tape it up.

 

Even when a DPS is taped together in the back with masking tape, I generally try to remove it since you never know what the acid from tape can do to the paper and it might seep through to the front and impact the surface of the artwork through the backside.

 

I've heard stories about antiques where when they're found dirty and people try to clean them, and polish 'em up, it actually brings the value down and the pieces were worth more in the older dingy condition.

 

With any collectible, be it collecting toys and keeping them in their packaging, or dealing with restoration, you can always open/restore later, but you can never undo, reseal/erase what you did to a piece, so I usually maintain, leave the piece the same way for which you found or acquired it and that's the best advice.

[drdroom]

It sounds like you didn't know about the lamination when you bought the piece? That's a huge failure to disclose on the seller's part and you should get a refund or substantial discount. Until you know the possibility/cost of expert removal of the laminate, I think the piece can't really be said to have a whole lot of value at all (of course, I don't know which page it is).

 

Other issues:

If a previous owner has gotten the artist to sign the page long after the fact, it doesn't bother me as long as the signature is outside the art area. Signature inside the art area devalues the page for me, but its not a deal breaker. On a great page I might look into getting the signature bleached, which I would consider restoration.

 

I actually don't mind pencil prices on the back of the page-- the sales history of the piece is somewhat noteworthy in itself. Artifacts of the early days of comic art collecting might someday be seen as part of the historic interest in the piece, along with the production notes, etc.

 

Recreations of missing stats or ballons is ok with me as long as a. they are well done, and b. they can be removed without damage.

 

[Mighty Hal]

I think AKA Rick expresses my thoughts, too. Don't mess with the art.

 

On the other hand, an Infantino/FLASH? That's sweet.

[batman_fan]

I have a Kirby Demon splash that at some point in its life was trimmed such that it affects the artwork. I suspect it was done back in the 70s to allow it to fit in a frame. I hate that it is trimmed but love the fact that it is in my collection. Probably reduced the value by 4x

[thethedew]

I have a Micronauts splash page where the elements from an attached 'surprint' page were trimmed out and attached to the main art:

 

 

As published here:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=889681&GSub=115796

 

Either the surprint was damaged badly, or a previous owner was not a purist. And now, it really 'is what it is.'

 

The Baron Karza image is slightly geehaw. Still displays well.

 

Andrew

[Hekla]

The dealer obviously should have mentioned this up front- especially if it was a major dealer. if it was just someone selling a piece of art on ebay (and isn't familiar with OA collecting in general) then I can more easily understand them not mentioning the coating at first

 

It was not a major dealer - it was an ebay purchase, but he is a CAF member. It was a reasonable initial price, he accepted my lower offer, and then he gave a partial reimbursement when I contacted him about the non-disclosure.

 

The plastic is not a laminate, but a thin plastic - more a poly sleeve thickness. One corner came up easy, but I met resistance on the image area (I'm guessing a type of dry-mount process?).

 

There are some very good comic art restoration pros who will be able to tell you if they can likely get the coating off without damage to the inks. If you need names just ask

 

I probably would like to get an opinion if you have someone you could recommend. Thanks!

[drdroom]

Here's another Flash page with rather intriguing alterations: original color by Marie Severin & re-lettering by Tom Orzchewoski (sorry, I have no idea how to spell that).

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380526938712&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

 

Thoughts?

[drdroom]

Hey Bill

How did you get the picture into the message? I haven't figured that one out yet.

 

& yeah, what is up with the house ad? I don't think I've ever seen one drawn directly on the board of any comic art. Definitely needs some 'splainin'.

[drdroom]

On close exam, the ad is definitely a new drawing-- elements that are typeset on the printed page are handlettered, and there seem to be subtle differences in the drawing.

[drdroom]

OR, that's what Tom O. was brought in for. The drawing looks very very close, differences might be just the line thickening up in printing.

[alxjhnsn]

How did you get the picture into the message? I haven't figured that one out yet.

 

It's pretty easy:

 

1) Host the image somewhere, CAF, Photobucket, Flicker, whatever

2) On that page, right click and select "Copy Image URL," or whatever looks similar

3) Come here and click "Reply" to the message you want to reply to or choose "Switch to Full Reply Screen"

4) On the tool bar, the third icon from the right is "Enter an Image" (hold the cursor over the icon to see the Tool Tip), click on it.

5) When prompted for the URL, paste it in.

 

That's it. Of course, you can type it in too using UBB tags directly. You can see how here. Search for the img tag.

[aokartman]

Hi, That is too bad about the laminate. Dry mounted to foam is another unfortunate occasion. I sometimes create faux titles for my own appreciation, but I make sure it is reversible! Check out a couple examples on my CAF. Flash Gordon and Judge Dredd. Best, David

 

My Gallery Room with replacement titles