Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[Hamlet]

Honestly, I suspect the prices you are citing are probably rational relative to each other.

 

When a comic has a print run of 1.7 million, and pretty much all of them are saved, it's going to be very hard for it to get expensive, no matter how much demand there is for it. Everyone who has the slightest interest in Spawn can easily get a copy or ten, and the dealers with long box after long box of the book will just pull out another couple dozen to sell.

 

On the other hand, even a little demand for the other stuff will drive up prices somewhat, since there aren't that many of them, compared to the Spawn #1.

 

I think its all pretty silly, but you can say that about most of the "hot" books right now. I think that most of the money chasing "hot" books is going to be lost by most of the people doing the chasing in the next couple years. A few people losing a little of that money on weird preview stuff instead of FF45 isn't all that important, IMO.

 

 

Yeah that's more directed at the Spawn silliness. Someone will pay $50 for a Malibu Sun or $30 for a Rust #1 and the Spawn #1 itself is barley worth $3-$5. And it all happened after people on this forum starting talking about how 'rare' it is and that it's the first actual appearance.

 

This Preacher Direct Currents is in the early stages.

[Broke as a Joke]

Besides trying to push some false first appearance agenda, I don't see a problem with promotional stuff. Even Overstreet has a promotional section dedicated to a lot of similar books that just don't fall into line with the comic book market. Doesn't mean they don't have prices attached to them.

 

This stuff will sort itself out over time. It always does.

[isiTrue]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

 

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that). This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

 

And when you say this:

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

 

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue), I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

Spawn #1 - First appearance of Spawn in story.

Malibu Sun #13 - (Was) the first appearance of Spawn in actual comic book format.

Rust #1 - First appearance of Spawn in a comic book.

Previews #3 - First appearance of Spawn outside of a comic book (not counting the trading card that I've heard mention of).

 

There is a place for each of these appearances in a collection, depending on personal preference. (A bit less for Malibu Sun #13, though, now that Rust #1 was discovered. But, it still has the cover going for it.)

 

Spawn #1 can be found anywhere, and in high grade. Naturally, fans will seek out an appearance that predates Spawn #1, particularly if it's not as common. This isn't anything new and it's been done before with other titles/characters. In the end, the market will decide.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

[Prince Namor]

Honestly, I suspect the prices you are citing are probably rational relative to each other.

 

When a comic has a print run of 1.7 million, and pretty much all of them are saved, it's going to be very hard for it to get expensive, no matter how much demand there is for it. Everyone who has the slightest interest in Spawn can easily get a copy or ten, and the dealers with long box after long box of the book will just pull out another couple dozen to sell.

 

On the other hand, even a little demand for the other stuff will drive up prices somewhat, since there aren't that many of them, compared to the Spawn #1.

 

A couple of years ago I found a Malibu Sun #13 or whatever it is for $1 at a show and asked on here if it was the first appearance of Spawn, and I got a resounding NO. I understood the reasoning why.

A year later I wondered into these parts and saw everyone talking about it being a 'hot' book and I checked eBay to see it was suddenly a $30+ comic.

To think that these boards can't raise the price of a book, is being naive.

To think someone hasn't taken advantage of it is just blind.

 

I think its all pretty silly, but you can say that about most of the "hot" books right now. I think that most of the money chasing "hot" books is going to be lost by most of the people doing the chasing in the next couple years. A few people losing a little of that money on weird preview stuff instead of FF45 isn't all that important, IMO.

 

I'd agree, but... just because it's not MY house being robbed doesn't mean I don't point out a burglar if I see him sneaking around the neighborhood.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

 

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole.

 

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

 

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

And when you say this:

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

Vive la vérité !

 

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

 

[Vikingreed]

Remember when this was a thread discussing the heating up of Copper books...?

 

haha

[Silverdream]

Just to add to this wonderful thread about ad appearances.

 

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that the books with ads are not collectible. The problem has always been calling them 1st appearances, which is inherently incorrect to this hobby and feels like a money grab.

 

Anything is collectible. I know a guy who has been collecting the comic book bags with graphics that are given out at comic shops for 30 years. He loves them, and has 8 magazine boxes full of them bagged and boarded. It's truly an amazing collection, that anyone here would be stunned by.That doesn't mean his bags are worth a large sum of money. If you dig it, buy it.

 

The problem starts when people come on these threads with what feels like an agenda to change what the hobby has been doing for decades. This isn't a hobby about ads for comics, its about the comics. 1st appearances are in original stories, as they were first published in full. Not previews, not ads. Are previews and ads collectible? Sure! Do some of the command a premium? YES! Calling them something they are not is misleading and dishonest however. It seems to me that the collectors who like ads and previews are wanting the market to conform to their thought process, in some part to make what they buy more valuable, or to somehow validate what they like. It's petty.

 

Preview and ad collectors: You are a niche in this hobby. Get over it. That's where you are, and that is where you will remain. Attempting to push this 1st appearance ad stuff on this hobby is just making you look bad.

 

Double cover collectors are a niche in this hobby too, and even though their books are 100's, sometimes 1000's of times more rare than their regular counterparts, they fetch a very small premium. Yet we don't not see this niche group pushing their books upon the general hobby as a whole like you all are.

 

Guess what? I dig previews and ads. I was ordering comics for the store I worked at back in 1992. I ordered an extra copy of the March 1992 previews because I thought it was cool, its on display at my house, right next to my copy of Spawn # 1 ( which is the first appearance of spawn, unless someone can prove that crusade of comics mini was produced well before the Comic con it was made for, which I also have, on the other side of my Spawn # 1)

 

 

 

Lets move on now. This is going in circles.

[Illustrious]

Preview and ad collectors: You are a niche in this hobby. Get over it. That's where you are, and that is where you will remain. Attempting to push this 1st appearance ad stuff on this hobby is just making you look bad.

 

 

Well said.

[isiTrue]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

 

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole.

 

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

 

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

And when you say this:

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

Vive la vérité !

 

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

 

 

 

 

Not even worth a response. Judging from the way you've decided to interpret my post, it's obvious now that you're just someone who likes the sound of his own voice and thrives on conflict, so it's a waste of time. But you know what, I'll correct a few of your incorrect assumptions anyway before moving on (for peace of mind):

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

"The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole."

 

That's actually funny. I said that you were being uncivil... not sure what you're trying to twist it into now.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

You missed the point entirely. I only indicated where the civil discussion started to degenerate.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

And when you say this:

 

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Not at all. But you seem intent on ignoring sound reasoning.

If you are aware that your stance is an opinion, then you should keep it civil and argue with facts and logic, not insults.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

Wrong. I put "debate" in quotes because of how much it's degenerated. This recent post of yours only supports my statement.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

Thanks for making my point. Less typing!

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Oh please, enough of this already. You make it sound like anything said here is viewed as true and holy. Yes, these boards do have an influence, but droves of people don't go out and start buying copies just because one or two people say so. People have brains; they either agree or disagree. Therefore, THE MARKET DECIDES.

 

I presented sound reasons which you choose to ignore; that's your problem. At this point, YOU'RE pushing your opinion on others. You should either take off the blinders and be more civil, or just stop talking. (Harsh but true, sorry.)

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

Made me laugh again. Funny guy! Translation of what you wrote:

 

I ignored your sound arguments because they interfere with my opinion, so it's better not to address them rather than look like a fool. (Fool is better than tool, btw.)

I speak for almost everyone on these boards when I say that we couldn't care less about Spawn #1 or any of his appearances. We believe that these sellers are trying to trick poor, unsuspecting people who can't think for themselves into showing interest in an earlier appearance to rake in the dough. I must save them from themselves!

 

Oh, and apparently in your mind, no one buys something just to add it to a collection, rather than for investment purposes.

 

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it. Vive la vérité !"

 

I'm not trying to force my opinion on others. Again, I provided logical reasons as to why there could be interest in the book. You ignored them and decided to keep spewing the same thing over and over. Had you presented a sound counter-argument in a civil manner, this would be an entirely different conversation (one which I would've preferred.) Unfortunately, you favor these types.

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

People were saying that ten years ago as well. Or was it closer to twenty?

 

Well, time to go back to being a lurker. I'd say no hard feelings, but something tells me that it would fall on deaf ears.

 

 

 

[isiTrue]

Just to add to this wonderful thread about ad appearances.

 

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that the books with ads are not collectible. The problem has always been calling them 1st appearances, which is inherently incorrect to this hobby and feels like a money grab.

 

Anything is collectible. I know a guy who has been collecting the comic book bags with graphics that are given out at comic shops for 30 years. He loves them, and has 8 magazine boxes full of them bagged and boarded. It's truly an amazing collection, that anyone here would be stunned by.That doesn't mean his bags are worth a large sum of money. If you dig it, buy it.

 

The problem starts when people come on these threads with what feels like an agenda to change what the hobby has been doing for decades. This isn't a hobby about ads for comics, its about the comics. 1st appearances are in original stories, as they were first published in full. Not previews, not ads. Are previews and ads collectible? Sure! Do some of the command a premium? YES! Calling them something they are not is misleading and dishonest however. It seems to me that the collectors who like ads and previews are wanting the market to conform to their thought process, in some part to make what they buy more valuable, or to somehow validate what they like. It's petty.

 

Preview and ad collectors: You are a niche in this hobby. Get over it. That's where you are, and that is where you will remain. Attempting to push this 1st appearance ad stuff on this hobby is just making you look bad.

 

Double cover collectors are a niche in this hobby too, and even though their books are 100's, sometimes 1000's of times more rare than their regular counterparts, they fetch a very small premium. Yet we don't not see this niche group pushing their books upon the general hobby as a whole like you all are.

 

Guess what? I dig previews and ads. I was ordering comics for the store I worked at back in 1992. I ordered an extra copy of the March 1992 previews because I thought it was cool, its on display at my house, right next to my copy of Spawn # 1 ( which is the first appearance of spawn, unless someone can prove that crusade of comics mini was produced well before the Comic con it was made for, which I also have, on the other side of my Spawn # 1)

 

 

 

Lets move on now. This is going in circles.

 

Before I leave, I just want to say good post, and I agree with most of what you said. However, certain aspects of the hobby do change based on demand.

 

Look at Preacher #1 and Preacher Preview. Malibu Sun #13 is obvious. How about cameo appearances? 2nd, 3rd prints fetching more than 1st prints these days (Hulk #377).

 

This hobby (and basically everything else) is ever-changing, so you can't say with 100% certainty that the niche market for ad appearances is where it will forever remain.

 

Take care.

[MrWeen]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Here is where you miss the point completely. I am not concerned with value only facts. I have never once said that Agents 6, Capes 1, Rust 1, Omega Men 2, DC Comics Presents 26, any issue of Previews, any issue of Marvel Age etc. should ever be more valuable that what the market has deemed most valuable. All I have ever said is that if a character appears in print in any publication then that publication should be considered a first appearance and that those who matter in reporting accurate facts about comics have a duty to help correct the market.

 

 

Is this Lady Death's first appearance? I though she appeared in issue 1?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evil-Ernie-2-First-Appearance-of-Lady-Death-VERY-FINE-Comic-Book-VF-NICE-WOW-/301524681991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4634458507

Edited February 15, 2015 by MrWeen

[slym2none]

 

 

 

-slym

[thecopperagekids]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Here is where you miss the point completely. I am not concerned with value only facts. I have never once said that Agents 6, Capes 1, Rust 1, Omega Men 2, DC Comics Presents 26, any issue of Previews, any issue of Marvel Age etc. should ever be more valuable that what the market has deemed most valuable. All I have ever said is that if a character appears in print in any publication then that publication should be considered a first appearance and that those who matter in reporting accurate facts about comics have a duty to help correct the market.

 

 

Is this Lady Death's first appearance? I though she appeared in issue 1?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evil-Ernie-2-First-Appearance-of-Lady-Death-VERY-FINE-Comic-Book-VF-NICE-WOW-/301524681991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4634458507

 

You are right, her first app was Evil Ernie # 1.

 

EE # 2 is her 2nd app. (and her 1st cover app).

 

See this auction for CGC's label notes on EE 1.....

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Evil-Ernie-1-Dec-1991-Malibu-CGC-9-4-Near-Mint-NM-First-Lady-Death-/161585875823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259f44cb6f

[Prince Namor]

Just to add to this wonderful thread about ad appearances.

 

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that the books with ads are not collectible. The problem has always been calling them 1st appearances, which is inherently incorrect to this hobby and feels like a money grab.

 

Anything is collectible. I know a guy who has been collecting the comic book bags with graphics that are given out at comic shops for 30 years. He loves them, and has 8 magazine boxes full of them bagged and boarded. It's truly an amazing collection, that anyone here would be stunned by.That doesn't mean his bags are worth a large sum of money. If you dig it, buy it.

 

The problem starts when people come on these threads with what feels like an agenda to change what the hobby has been doing for decades. This isn't a hobby about ads for comics, its about the comics. 1st appearances are in original stories, as they were first published in full. Not previews, not ads. Are previews and ads collectible? Sure! Do some of the command a premium? YES! Calling them something they are not is misleading and dishonest however. It seems to me that the collectors who like ads and previews are wanting the market to conform to their thought process, in some part to make what they buy more valuable, or to somehow validate what they like. It's petty.

 

Preview and ad collectors: You are a niche in this hobby. Get over it. That's where you are, and that is where you will remain. Attempting to push this 1st appearance ad stuff on this hobby is just making you look bad.

 

Double cover collectors are a niche in this hobby too, and even though their books are 100's, sometimes 1000's of times more rare than their regular counterparts, they fetch a very small premium. Yet we don't not see this niche group pushing their books upon the general hobby as a whole like you all are.

 

Guess what? I dig previews and ads. I was ordering comics for the store I worked at back in 1992. I ordered an extra copy of the March 1992 previews because I thought it was cool, its on display at my house, right next to my copy of Spawn # 1 ( which is the first appearance of spawn, unless someone can prove that crusade of comics mini was produced well before the Comic con it was made for, which I also have, on the other side of my Spawn # 1)

 

 

 

Lets move on now. This is going in circles.

 

Well said.

[Beastfeast]

All I have ever said is that if a character appears in print in any publication then that publication should be considered a first appearance and that those who matter in reporting accurate facts about comics have a duty to help correct the market.

 

 

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE ARE DISMISSING YOU!

 

It SHOULDN'T be considered a 1st appearance and MANY people have gone on at length to explain why. NO ONE is saying you can't think that way...but you trying to convince everyone else that you're right is what people are rejecting.

[MK Ultra]

I wonder if Christopher Columbus went though such before sailing for China?

[Beastfeast]

I wonder if Christopher Columbus went though such before sailing for China?

 

Visionaries like Ween and C.C. can't be stifled.

[darkstar]

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue), I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

Spawn #1 - First appearance of Spawn in story.

Malibu Sun #13 - (Was) the first appearance of Spawn in actual comic book format.

Rust #1 - First appearance of Spawn in a comic book.

Previews #3 - First appearance of Spawn outside of a comic book (not counting the trading card that I've heard mention of).

 

There is a place for each of these appearances in a collection, depending on personal preference. (A bit less for Malibu Sun #13, though, now that Rust #1 was discovered. But, it still has the cover going for it.)

 

Spawn #1 can be found anywhere, and in high grade. Naturally, fans will seek out an appearance that predates Spawn #1, particularly if it's not as common. This isn't anything new and it's been done before with other titles/characters. In the end, the market will decide.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Until you get a firm publication date on Crusade of Comics Presents Spawn #1 then you can't say for sure that Rust #1 is now the first appearance of Spawn in a comic book. Some sites list January as the publication date of Crusade of Comics Presents, but it is impossible to know whether that is accurate or was simply done because the actual month was not known.

[Prince Namor]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

 

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole.

 

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

 

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

And when you say this:

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

Vive la vérité !

 

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

 

 

 

 

Not even worth a response. Judging from the way you've decided to interpret my post, it's obvious now that you're just someone who likes the sound of his own voice and thrives on conflict, so it's a waste of time. But you know what, I'll correct a few of your incorrect assumptions anyway before moving on (for peace of mind):

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

"The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole."

 

That's actually funny. I said that you were being uncivil... not sure what you're trying to twist it into now.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

You missed the point entirely. I only indicated where the civil discussion started to degenerate.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

And when you say this:

 

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Not at all. But you seem intent on ignoring sound reasoning.

If you are aware that your stance is an opinion, then you should keep it civil and argue with facts and logic, not insults.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

Wrong. I put "debate" in quotes because of how much it's degenerated. This recent post of yours only supports my statement.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

Thanks for making my point. Less typing!

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Oh please, enough of this already. You make it sound like anything said here is viewed as true and holy. Yes, these boards do have an influence, but droves of people don't go out and start buying copies just because one or two people say so. People have brains; they either agree or disagree. Therefore, THE MARKET DECIDES.

 

I presented sound reasons which you choose to ignore; that's your problem. At this point, YOU'RE pushing your opinion on others. You should either take off the blinders and be more civil, or just stop talking. (Harsh but true, sorry.)

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

Made me laugh again. Funny guy! Translation of what you wrote:

 

I ignored your sound arguments because they interfere with my opinion, so it's better not to address them rather than look like a fool. (Fool is better than tool, btw.)

I speak for almost everyone on these boards when I say that we couldn't care less about Spawn #1 or any of his appearances. We believe that these sellers are trying to trick poor, unsuspecting people who can't think for themselves into showing interest in an earlier appearance to rake in the dough. I must save them from themselves!

 

Oh, and apparently in your mind, no one buys something just to add it to a collection, rather than for investment purposes.

 

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it. Vive la vérité !"

 

I'm not trying to force my opinion on others. Again, I provided logical reasons as to why there could be interest in the book. You ignored them and decided to keep spewing the same thing over and over. Had you presented a sound counter-argument in a civil manner, this would be an entirely different conversation (one which I would've preferred.) Unfortunately, you favor these types.

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

People were saying that ten years ago as well. Or was it closer to twenty?

 

Well, time to go back to being a lurker. I'd say no hard feelings, but something tells me that it would fall on deaf ears.

 

 

 

Where do you get 'sound reasoning' when 99% of the hobby disagrees with you?

You can use 'sound reasoning' to try and convince me the moon is made of cheese, it doesn't make it right or any less ridiculous.

Stand there in a suit with a Phd, a laptop and 20 boxes of research, all the while stating your case as calmly as possible... it's still not correct.

You keep trying to make it about MY response. It has nothing to do with ME or how I respond to the 'sound reasoning' of information that is just plain not the way it's viewed.

 

[Aweandlorder]

 

(major nesting fail)

 

I didn't know that someone appointed you the market police.

 

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion.

 

You're still free to sling your BS.

 

I'm still free to call you out on it.

 

Ain't nobody here in handcuffs.

 

Also collecting ads, previews, insiders whatever cannot be compared to huge companies like Marvel, Valiant and DC tricking consumers into thinking that poorly scripted, over-printed, prismatic, holofoil covers would one day be valuable.

 

a) Who's comparing it?

 

b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening?

 

c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible.

 

d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself.

 

 

Collect it all you want. Have fun with it.

 

Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it.

 

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole.

 

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

 

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

And when you say this:

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

Vive la vérité !

 

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

 

 

 

 

Not even worth a response. Judging from the way you've decided to interpret my post, it's obvious now that you're just someone who likes the sound of his own voice and thrives on conflict, so it's a waste of time. But you know what, I'll correct a few of your incorrect assumptions anyway before moving on (for peace of mind):

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that).

 

"The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole."

 

That's actually funny. I said that you were being uncivil... not sure what you're trying to twist it into now.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion:

 

"I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle."

You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts.

 

And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible.

 

You missed the point entirely. I only indicated where the civil discussion started to degenerate.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

And when you say this:

 

"Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it."

 

...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion.

 

It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty?

Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money.

 

Not at all. But you seem intent on ignoring sound reasoning.

If you are aware that your stance is an opinion, then you should keep it civil and argue with facts and logic, not insults.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue)

 

See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS.

 

Wrong. I put "debate" in quotes because of how much it's degenerated. This recent post of yours only supports my statement.

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider:

 

(Ignoring this part)

 

 

Thanks for making my point. Less typing!

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

In the end, the market will decide.

 

Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable.

 

Oh please, enough of this already. You make it sound like anything said here is viewed as true and holy. Yes, these boards do have an influence, but droves of people don't go out and start buying copies just because one or two people say so. People have brains; they either agree or disagree. Therefore, THE MARKET DECIDES.

 

I presented sound reasons which you choose to ignore; that's your problem. At this point, YOU'RE pushing your opinion on others. You should either take off the blinders and be more civil, or just stop talking. (Harsh but true, sorry.)

 

Originally Posted By: isiTrue

Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

 

Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution.

 

And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value.

 

You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT.

 

Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment.

 

Made me laugh again. Funny guy! Translation of what you wrote:

 

I ignored your sound arguments because they interfere with my opinion, so it's better not to address them rather than look like a fool. (Fool is better than tool, btw.)

I speak for almost everyone on these boards when I say that we couldn't care less about Spawn #1 or any of his appearances. We believe that these sellers are trying to trick poor, unsuspecting people who can't think for themselves into showing interest in an earlier appearance to rake in the dough. I must save them from themselves!

 

Oh, and apparently in your mind, no one buys something just to add it to a collection, rather than for investment purposes.

 

 

And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it. Vive la vérité !"

 

I'm not trying to force my opinion on others. Again, I provided logical reasons as to why there could be interest in the book. You ignored them and decided to keep spewing the same thing over and over. Had you presented a sound counter-argument in a civil manner, this would be an entirely different conversation (one which I would've preferred.) Unfortunately, you favor these types.

 

PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie.

 

People were saying that ten years ago as well. Or was it closer to twenty?

 

Well, time to go back to being a lurker. I'd say no hard feelings, but something tells me that it would fall on deaf ears.

 

 

 

Where do you get 'sound reasoning' when 99% of the hobby disagrees with you?

You can use 'sound reasoning' to try and convince me the moon is made of cheese, it doesn't make it right or any less ridiculous.

Stand there in a suit with a Phd, a laptop and 20 boxes of research, all the while stating your case as calmly as possible... it's still not correct.

You keep trying to make it about MY response. It has nothing to do with ME or how I respond to the 'sound reasoning' of information that is just plain not the way it's viewed.

 

LETS GO LETS GO LETSGO