Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[joe_collector]

And when Superman #75 came out, there were only two comics...not titles, single comics...that had come out with "multiple covers" (that is, more than 2)...and that was Legends of the Dark Knight #1 (4) and X-Men #1. (5)

 

Spiderman #1 only had two covers.

 

Do you even have the faintest clue what "multiple" means?

 

Having, relating to, or consisting of more than one individual, element, part, or other component;

 

MORE THEN ONE - talking to you is like talking to a little kid. Seriously.

[joe_collector]

Again...much of this isn't true.

 

You really have to be the craziest SOB I've ever interacted with, and you are personally the reason I stay away from the CGC Forums. You're one of these "got to be right 100% of the time" people that I walk across the street to avoid, and you *really* should see someone about this condition.

 

Want hard, cold facts rather that your usual hyperbole?

 

Spider-man 1 set a record for 1 issue comic sales, which was broken by X-Force 1, and then broken by X-men #1, the current record holder at 8 million copies. This is when mass, rampant, multi-cover speculation took off, and at only 2.5-3 million copies sold, Superman 75 doesn't even come close.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And when Superman #75 came out, there were only two comics...not titles, single comics...that had come out with "multiple covers" (that is, more than 2)...and that was Legends of the Dark Knight #1 (4) and X-Men #1. (5)

 

Spiderman #1 only had two covers.

 

Do you even have the faintest clue what "multiple" means?

 

Having, relating to, or consisting of more than one individual, element, part, or other component;

 

MORE THEN ONE - talking to you is like talking to a little kid. Seriously.

 

 

I wasn't aware there were lots of little kids who were able to write like a relatively intelligent adult with a college education....

 

Since we're picking nits: the word is "than", not "then"...which is an interesting mistake for you to make, since you just pasted it correctly the sentence prior...

 

Joe...I know you like to focus on one little potential point of contention, and ignore the main point of the discussion when it doesn't suit you, but it's really disingenuous. Let's not make mountains out of molehills, and just focus on the overarching discussion.

 

But for the sake of the argument, let's go with your definition of "multiple"...using your definition, multiple covers are a Copper invention.

 

Man of Steel #1.

 

Justice League #3.

 

Firestorm #61.

 

Legends of the Dark Knight #1.

 

Critters #22.

 

Amazing Spiderman Annual #21.

 

Are you now suggesting that the Copper Age ended in 1986? 1987? 1988? 1989?

[joe_collector]

I wasn't aware there were lots of little kids who were able to write like a relatively intelligent adult with a college education....

 

I'll buy you a clue - how you "view" yourself on here is definitely not how others view you, trust me on that.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Again...much of this isn't true.

 

You really have to be the craziest SOB I've ever interacted with, and you are personally the reason I stay away from the CGC Forums. You're one of these "got to be right 100% of the time" people that I walk across the street to avoid, and you *really* should see someone about this condition.

 

Joe...why are you incapable of having a conversation without making it personal?

 

Look, here's the deal: you are well known on this board for having a very contentious attitude. This is no secret. But I have no problem challenging you, because while on the one hand, you utterly dismiss "Modern" books:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=7473206&Searchpage=1&Main=331477&Words=moderns+joe_collector&topic=0&Search=true#Post7473206

 

and:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=7473084&Searchpage=1&Main=331477&Words=moderns+joe_collector&topic=0&Search=true#Post7473084

 

....you don't have a problem with talking about those "moderns"...the very things you constantly speak against...and getting the facts wrong.

 

There's no shame in being wrong, Joe. But people come here for information, and when you're putting out information that isn't true, you need to expect to be challenged. I don't mind being challenged: it is an opportunity to learn.

 

If you looked at it as an opportunity to learn, instead of a personal attack, Joe, you'd have a lot better time here.

 

And since I took a near-complete break from posting anything except pictures and emoticons for two years on this board, I don't tend to believe you when you say I am one of those "has to be 100% right" guys, or that I am personally responsible for you staying away.

 

Don't take it so personally, Joe. It's not personal.

 

Really.

[joe_collector]

Joe...why are you incapable of having a conversation without making it personal?

 

Because I know your personality type and it's an anathema to me. Sorry, that's just the way it is, and has nothing to do with your "challenging" me, as I'm hardly immune to that on here.

 

It's best I just put you back on ignore.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I wasn't aware there were lots of little kids who were able to write like a relatively intelligent adult with a college education....

 

I'll buy you a clue - how you "view" yourself on here is definitely not how others view you, trust me on that.

 

Oh, of that I have little doubt. I was a loudmouth, rude, snide, contemptuous jerk. It doesn't matter if I only responded to what I was getting, two wrongs never make a right, and I went wayyy overboard in response. It was the "they bring a knife, you bring a gun" theory of message board posting.

 

I accept the fact that I made my bed, and have to lie in it. I earned it, I deserve it. No doubt about it.

 

But, by the grace of God, I have (hopefully) tempered my comments here, and try not to return insult for insult. I hope that has made for a kinder, gentler, more patient RMA. Only everyone else can decide.

 

I'm not going to insult you back, Joe. But...be prepared for a vigorous challenge should you post things which may not be precisely accurate.

 

Can we get back to discussing Copper age intricacies?

[faster friends]

A shame you fella's can't converse nicely, cause between the 2 of you, there is more comic history knowledge than 90% of the rest of the posters here have put together.

[FlyingDonut]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Again...much of this isn't true.

 

You really have to be the craziest SOB I've ever interacted with, and you are personally the reason I stay away from the CGC Forums. You're one of these "got to be right 100% of the time" people that I walk across the street to avoid, and you *really* should see someone about this condition.

 

Want hard, cold facts rather that your usual hyperbole?

 

Spider-man 1 set a record for 1 issue comic sales, which was broken by X-Force 1, and then broken by X-men #1, the current record holder at 8 million copies. This is when mass, rampant, multi-cover speculation took off, and at only 2.5-3 million copies sold, Superman 75 doesn't even come close.

 

Superman #75 actually sold a bit more than 4 million copies, and immediately went to 2nd, 3rd, and ultimately 4th printings. Spiderman #1 had a total print run, across all printings, of 2.5 million, with X-Force #1 being the same.

 

Superman #75, across all printings, has the second highest print run of all time. (Edit: It had that distinction even without multiple printings...the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th only added to the count.)

 

So I dunno about "doesn't even come close."

[RockMyAmadeus]

A shame you fella's can't converse nicely,

 

I'm surely tryin'....

[RockMyAmadeus]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

[revat]

I think some people place the boom before the collapse as the end of the copper age, and include it with the collapse, like grouping the Roaring 20's with the Great Depression because it just fits more in a historical time frame as the time between world wars, and the rampant spending and speculation of the Roaring 20's (along with other factors) lead to the Great Depression.

 

Similarly, the epic comic collapse cannot be properly explained without the roaring success and cash grab of the early 1990's (although there were other factors too of course).

 

I think historically, the age after copper will start sometime in 1992-1996 (I lean earlier but its ok if you don't) and end either with the beginning of the digital age or the movie age, depending on how things go (I'm thinking digital).

Edited February 26, 2014 by Revat

[slym2none]

I definitely think it is time for a new "age" to be named, as 20+ year old books are not "modern." Whomever decides these things needs to get to it!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[RockMyAmadeus]

I definitely think it is time for a new "age" to be named, as 20+ year old books are not "modern." Whomever decides these things needs to get to it!

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

There was a real problem, 4-5 years ago, before eBay added the "Copper Age" (really, we could just call them 70's, 80's, 90's...it would be so much easier...at least until they roll around again...), when the "Modern Age" encompassed everything from 1980-2008 or so. It was unwieldy, and a major pain. I'm glad they finally did something.

[slym2none]

I think Bob Overstreet, these boards, and the eBay comic community (that isn't already here) should come together & get this new era named!

 

I still vote for "The Chromium Age."

 

 

 

 

-slym

[FlyingDonut]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

[sd2416]

Reboot age.

[NinjaSealed]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

[Pete Marino]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Edited February 26, 2014 by Pete Marino