Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[awakeintheashes]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

[500Club]

But how did you find a newsstand copy at Shop Rite, when newsstands always came out 2-3 weeks after the DM....?

 

I ran a newsstand for 3 years, and we never got our issues 2-3 weeks later. This was early to mid 1990s. I even remember getting the Superman #75 newsstand edition and selling a couple for $100 or so they day after they came out.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

 

From 1990-1993, I picked up several hot books (from Superman #50, Robin #1, to Bats #492, Tec #659) from the newsstand, because they arrived weeks...not days, but weeks...afterwards. I haunted the newsstands.

 

Don't know what to tell you. Probably yet another distribution quirk of the era.

It was the same here. The two week gap between LCS and newsstand distribution allowed for an opportunity to load up on books you already saw were hot.

[Pete Marino]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

So the age is going to be 3 years? 1993-1996? I'd figure it would be at least a decade.... 1993-2003?

[awakeintheashes]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

So the age is going to be 3 years? 1993-1996? I'd figure it would be at least a decade.... 1993-2003?

 

No. The 1993-2003(Walking Dead) or 1991/92- late 2000(Ultimate Spider-Man) periods will probably be called the Chromium age or something like it with certain books exhibiting qualities of the Modern/Digital age...

Edited February 26, 2014 by awakeintheashes

[Pete Marino]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

So the age is going to be 3 years? 1993-1996? I'd figure it would be at least a decade.... 1993-2003?

 

No. The 1993-2003(Walking Dead) or 1991/92- late 2000(Ultimate Spider-Man) periods will probably be called the Chromium age or something like it with certain books exhibiting qualities of the Modern/Digital age...

 

Got it, since you quoted me, I thought you were saying that the comics I mentioned should be in a different age.

 

IMO WD1 should be the beginning of the newest modern age. Pretty sure that's not even worth , maybe 1p, tops!

[awakeintheashes]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

So the age is going to be 3 years? 1993-1996? I'd figure it would be at least a decade.... 1993-2003?

 

No. The 1993-2003(Walking Dead) or 1991/92- late 2000(Ultimate Spider-Man) periods will probably be called the Chromium age or something like it with certain books exhibiting qualities of the Modern/Digital age...

 

Got it, since you quoted me, I thought you were saying that the comics I mentioned should be in a different age.

 

IMO WD1 should be the beginning of the newest modern age. Pretty sure that's not even worth , maybe 1p, tops!

 

Sorry for the confusion. Much like the time period at the end of the Middle Age/Dark Age is referred to as the Renaissance period, the years in which many of these books were being released might one day be thought of (on an immensely smaller scale) as Renaissance of comics, even though they will technically be considered Chromium/Dark Age books.

 

Also, WD1 works for me. I have no allegiance either way.

Edited February 26, 2014 by awakeintheashes

[fastballspecial]

I can tell you that in southern Indiana, I bought all of my weekly books at a local drug store, and it was always the same release dates as the comic shops in the area received theirs.

 

 

Just curious where did you get them at in Southern Indiana we might have been buying at same drug store .

 

[Vikingreed]

I can tell you that in southern Indiana, I bought all of my weekly books at a local drug store, and it was always the same release dates as the comic shops in the area received theirs.

 

 

Just curious where did you get them at in Southern Indiana we might have been buying at same drug store .

 

Haha, that would be hilarious.

 

It was near Louisville, KY, right across the bridge.

[revat]

I can tell you that in southern Indiana, I bought all of my weekly books at a local drug store, and it was always the same release dates as the comic shops in the area received theirs.

 

 

Just curious where did you get them at in Southern Indiana we might have been buying at same drug store .

 

Haha, that would be hilarious.

 

It was near Louisville, KY, right across the bridge.

 

on a related note, I just learned Indiana borders Kentucky. Very educational.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The real problem with making "ages", especially that are so short in length, is that it ultimately confuses people. "Bronze Age" wasn't even a term used by anyone until the very, very late 80's. Now, we have 6 or 7 different "ages" that are based on....what? Granted, there were some pretty spectacular things that happened, but did they completely change the way things were done, or were they just more of the same?

 

The argument for the Golden Age is pretty solid: it had never been done before, and it was immense. It changed pop culture.

 

The Silver Age....sure, it was *almost* as impactful, and introduced long term pop culture icons. But there's debate about where it started, *and*...it wasn't like the GA, in that it took what had gone before, and...brilliantly, for sure...altered it in a way that connected with the public. But the Golden Age was all new.

 

But the Bronze Age? Conan? Green Lantern #76? Conan existed in pop culture for decades already. And while GL/GA was pretty novel for comics, the fact is, comics was behind the curve on "social issues."

 

And then the Copper Age....what is the pop culture influence of the Copper Age? What's THE defining moment of the Copper Age? Ask your non-comics friends who are the most important super heroes of all time, and they'll say Superman (Golden Age), Batman (Golden Age), and Spiderman (Silver Age.) *Maybe* someone might mention Wolverine. Maybe. But he still pales compared to the top 3.

 

And nothing for the Copper Age.

 

That we have these endless discussions about what starts where, and what ends where, with very little consensus really defines the issue: making up endless "age" names for "ages" that no one can even get 5 people to agree with...

 

Maybe it's finally time to just keep what we have, and retire the "ages" forever.

 

[KRS_SD]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

So the age is going to be 3 years? 1993-1996? I'd figure it would be at least a decade.... 1993-2003?

 

No. The 1993-2003(Walking Dead) or 1991/92- late 2000(Ultimate Spider-Man) periods will probably be called the Chromium age or something like it with certain books exhibiting qualities of the Modern/Digital age...

 

My Modern collection begins with 2000's Ultimate Spiderman #1 . My Copper collection ends at the year 1999 until theres an official name and time frame for the Dark/Chromium Age. Then the OCD in me will re-organize my collection accordingly.

[Legion HQ]

The real problem with making "ages", especially that are so short in length, is that it ultimately confuses people. "Bronze Age" wasn't even a term used by anyone until the very, very late 80's. Now, we have 6 or 7 different "ages" that are based on....what? Granted, there were some pretty spectacular things that happened, but did they completely change the way things were done, or were they just more of the same?

 

The argument for the Golden Age is pretty solid: it had never been done before, and it was immense. It changed pop culture.

 

The Silver Age....sure, it was *almost* as impactful, and introduced long term pop culture icons. But there's debate about where it started, *and*...it wasn't like the GA, in that it took what had gone before, and...brilliantly, for sure...altered it in a way that connected with the public. But the Golden Age was all new.

 

But the Bronze Age? Conan? Green Lantern #76? Conan existed in pop culture for decades already. And while GL/GA was pretty novel for comics, the fact is, comics was behind the curve on "social issues."

 

And then the Copper Age....what is the pop culture influence of the Copper Age? What's THE defining moment of the Copper Age? Ask your non-comics friends who are the most important super heroes of all time, and they'll say Superman (Golden Age), Batman (Golden Age), and Spiderman (Silver Age.) *Maybe* someone might mention Wolverine. Maybe. But he still pales compared to the top 3.

 

And nothing for the Copper Age.

 

That we have these endless discussions about what starts where, and what ends where, with very little consensus really defines the issue: making up endless "age" names for "ages" that no one can even get 5 people to agree with...

 

Maybe it's finally time to just keep what we have, and retire the "ages" forever.

 

 

The pinnacles (highlights?) of the Copper Age always seems to be regarded as TMNT / Watchmen / Dark Knight Returns / Crisis. TMNT has certainly been a pop culture phenomenon for 30 years, though I don't know about "influence". It is The Walking Dead of the Copper Age (or The Walking Dead is the TMNT of the Modern Age, whatever).

 

For the Modern Age, big Hollywood blockbusters have had a MAJOR pop cultural influence, re-emerging from the ashes of the original Batman (1989) franchise with X-Men in 2000, and exploding with Spider-Man in 2002. But I'm not sure you can tie Hollywood's success & influence into an Age for the comics medium. Though it coincides with Ultimate Spider-Man and the emergence of the Ultimate Universe I suppose.

[slym2none]

I have to agree on this point wholeheartedly: if we used the decade the comic came out in, there would be no confusion whatsoever (unless you can't count.)

 

 

 

 

-slym

[divad]

One more point: the internet. The internet existed, as everyone knows, before this, but it didn't become mainstream until 1995. The first "dot com" ads in the media were 1995, and that's also when eBay (then AuctionWeb, and frequented by no one) was founded (9/95.)

 

That, as much as the collapse, is what fundamentally changed the comics industry. No longer were buyers beholden to retailers to obtain what they could not. Now, they could trade amongst themselves. People didn't have to take their collections and sell them for 5% of OPG. Now, they could sell them directly to others.

 

And....by far, the most important effect the internet had: information became instantly accessible, not subject to the editorial whims of the media.

 

Total transformation of the industry.

 

I'm not entirely sure if it was a transformation of the industry as much as it was a transformation of the marketplace - on this I agree with you 100%. I think the industry lagged behind until mid-2001 - there's a long period of just drek where sales were in the toilet from the late 1990s. Amazing having a print run of under 20,000, things like that.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. Consumers reacting instantly, while publishers and retailers were a lot slower on the uptake.

 

I would put the "Modern Age" starting with Amazing Spider-Man 30, Fantastic Four 60, some of the other reboots that started right around then. Maybe Daredevil 1? There's a completely different feel from Amazing 25 to Amazing 30, for example. Call the period 1993-2000 the "Dark Age", something like that. Terrible art, terrible stories, no sales, etc. etc. etc.

 

I definitely think the era of 1993-XXXX does need a negative connotation to it. I see the turning points of Mid ASM V2, USM #1. Loeb/Lee Batman run as big turning points where stories and art got good again.

 

There was some awesome stuff that came out during that period as well. I guess most of if toward the end of that period, but still....

 

Off the top of my head:

 

The Invisibles

Bone

Transmetropolitan

Morrison's JLA

Starman

The Authority

Flex Mentallo

 

Renaissance or Early Modern period.

 

Either of these is way too kind . . .

[gaz973]

The real problem with making "ages", especially that are so short in length, is that it ultimately confuses people. "Bronze Age" wasn't even a term used by anyone until the very, very late 80's. Now, we have 6 or 7 different "ages" that are based on....what? Granted, there were some pretty spectacular things that happened, but did they completely change the way things were done, or were they just more of the same?

 

The argument for the Golden Age is pretty solid: it had never been done before, and it was immense. It changed pop culture.

 

The Silver Age....sure, it was *almost* as impactful, and introduced long term pop culture icons. But there's debate about where it started, *and*...it wasn't like the GA, in that it took what had gone before, and...brilliantly, for sure...altered it in a way that connected with the public. But the Golden Age was all new.

 

But the Bronze Age? Conan? Green Lantern #76? Conan existed in pop culture for decades already. And while GL/GA was pretty novel for comics, the fact is, comics was behind the curve on "social issues."

 

And then the Copper Age....what is the pop culture influence of the Copper Age? What's THE defining moment of the Copper Age? Ask your non-comics friends who are the most important super heroes of all time, and they'll say Superman (Golden Age), Batman (Golden Age), and Spiderman (Silver Age.) *Maybe* someone might mention Wolverine. Maybe. But he still pales compared to the top 3.

 

And nothing for the Copper Age.

 

That we have these endless discussions about what starts where, and what ends where, with very little consensus really defines the issue: making up endless "age" names for "ages" that no one can even get 5 people to agree with...

 

Maybe it's finally time to just keep what we have, and retire the "ages" forever.

 

I agree, the "ages" serve no practical purpose beyond spawning endless discussions regarding when they started and finished.

 

I'm sure that Golden, Silver and Bronze ages will always be referred to for as long as the hobby lasts but there is no real importance to defining them.

[Guardian Comics]

Why do we need to add all these ages...why can't copper go from Secret Wars #1 or Wolvie Ltd Series #1 til WD #1???

 

GA 1938-1945

Atomic Age 1946-1955

SA 1956-1970ish

Bronze 1970-1982/84

Copper 1984-2004 (encompassing direct sales, indys, variants/gimmicks and the near collapse of the industry)

Modern 2004-up

 

Jim

Edited February 27, 2014 by cgcworld

[SKYNET-migration]

if some people would still want to define Copper Age and when it started, it's with the company-wide crossovers that involves all characters from a publishing house or revamping the entire fictional timeline. so that would be 1985, start of Crisis on Infinite Earths.

 

 

though my personal preference would like to do away with all of the "Ages" after Bronze Age.

 

[seanfingh]

While I don't advocate different "ages," there were way too many different things going on to lump all that together.

 

To me there have been three significant "movements" since the end of Copper:

 

(1) Rise of Image, Marvel flood of terrible books, through Bad girl craze and near Implosion

(2) Leaner meaner big two including Marvel's 1998-1999 reboots, the re-rise of the writer driven series (Moore's ABC series, Ellis' triumvirate of Planetary, Authority, Transmet, miller's 300 etc), birth of the Ultimate universe

(3) re-emergence of Image, New 52, endless Marvel reboots

 

[CopperMiner89]

though my personal preference would like to do away with all of the "Ages" after Bronze Age.

 

+1

[Prince Namor]

While I don't advocate different "ages," there were way too many different things going on to lump all that together.

 

To me there have been three significant "movements" since the end of Copper:

 

(1) Rise of Image, Marvel flood of terrible books, through Bad girl craze and near Implosion

(2) Leaner meaner big two including Marvel's 1998-1999 reboots, the re-rise of the writer driven series (Moore's ABC series, Ellis' triumvirate of Planetary, Authority, Transmet, miller's 300 etc), birth of the Ultimate universe

(3) re-emergence of Image, New 52, endless Marvel reboots

 

Interesting trend... seems like every time their's a re-imergence of something that readers gets interested in, Marvel floods the market...