Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[500Club]

If Gambit had been on the cover, even in the background, it would be no question.

 

But he's definitely there, in the story, multiple panels.

 

Add X-Factor 24 to this list.

 

seriously, just read x factor 23 again last night, and archangel is in more than one panel, he does stuff, and he talks. You see most if not all of his body. I think it the most aggressive use of the "If the 1st app has him on one page only and the second app has him in the story and the cover then its the real 1st appearance rule."

Yeah, that's another example of a pretty significant 'cameo'.

 

How is his appearance in 23 a cameo based on what the board member describes about the issue?

 

I thought I'd laid the sarcasm on pretty thick...

 

It looks pretty damn close to a full appearance to me.

[500Club]

Archangel is shown in shadow in a couple of issues before 23 too.

Cap 359/360.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I think it would be an uphill battle convincing casual readers that Ann. 14 is a first appearance when we see in this panel Storm (who was a 'reverted pre-teen' in issue 266) is now an adult and telling the events of issues 265 - 267. It appears that the events of annual 14 came after the events of UXM 265-267.... So (since UXM was biweekly at this time) Annual 14 came out a month early?

 

The events referenced don't refer to the chronological distribution of the book. Annual #14 came out before #267, and there's no question that it was supposed to, since Annual #14 was part four of a four part story. Harras would have known, if not had the finished work in front of him, to have made that editorial note in Annual #14.

 

Here's the info (and, in fact, jives well with my memory):

 

Fantastic Four Annual #23 (Part 1): Issues Registered:

v. 1, no. 23, 1990. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-08; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002845922

 

X-Factor Annual 5 (Part 2): Issues Registered:

v. 1, no. 5, 1990. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-15; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002842962

 

New Mutants Annual #6 (part 3) Issues Registered:

v. 1, no. 6. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-22; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002841988

 

X-Men Annual #14 (part 4): Issues Registered:

v. 1, no. 14, 1990. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-29; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002843529

 

Here's the X-Men #266 info:

 

v. 1, no. 266, late Aug90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-06-19; Reg. 1990-08-27; TX0002882810

 

The Days of Future Present was, therefore, a weekly story (which I remember), and came out during the month of May. X-Men #266, however, didn't come out until the third week of JUNE, several weeks AFTER DOFP had already been out.

 

I wish my 18 year old self was paying attention; I would have kept meticulous records.

 

In any event, at this point X-Men was bi-weekly, and several issues came out after DOFP:

 

v. 1, no. 263, early Jun90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-01; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002872984

v. 1, no. 264, late Jul90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-15; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002793635

v. 1, no. 265, early Aug90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-06-05; Reg. 1990-08-27; TX0002882811

v. 1, no. 266, late Aug90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-06-19; Reg. 1990-08-27; TX0002882810

v. 1, no. 267, early Sep90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-07-03; Reg. 1990-12-20; TX0002965689

 

I think this fairly solidly puts a dagger into the idea that "X-Men Annual #14 was mistakenly published early."

 

Not only did it pre-date #266, it also pre-dated #265 as well.

 

[manetteska]

I admit, I have some of these but haven't read it (yet).

 

So who/what is this dude/thing on the cover that looks like a mecha version of Gambit?

 

Is it Gambit -- just a weird interpretation -- or someone that looks eerily similar?

 

[fastballspecial]

Because there is money involved we must assume that people will push their own agendas to make more money.

 

Should I regard all of your posts in that light, too?

 

Have we become so cynical that we must assume that everybody always has an agenda, all the time?

 

 

You must agree his argument here has some validity on this board especially.

 

[Illustrious]

I admit, I have some of these but haven't read it (yet).

 

So who/what is this dude/thing on the cover that looks like a mecha version of Gambit?

 

Is it Gambit -- just a weird interpretation -- or someone that looks eerily similar?

 

 

It's the villain Ahab, nothing to do with Gambit.

[manetteska]

I admit, I have some of these but haven't read it (yet).

 

So who/what is this dude/thing on the cover that looks like a mecha version of Gambit?

 

Is it Gambit -- just a weird interpretation -- or someone that looks eerily similar?

 

 

It's the villain Ahab, nothing to do with Gambit.

 

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[fastballspecial]

Truth is there is a growing segment of collectors that don't care about being within a story or what "counts".

 

 

How big is this "growing segment"? How do you know it is growing, rather than shrinking? Where did this segment start? How did it start? Of whom is it comprised?

 

You have to have seen it the last 2 years? Its a new collector base that I think consists largely of non collectors only interested in maximizing profit. Look how many people on this board have showed up in the last 2 years. The movie success has brought this new group of collectors/dealers/flippers.

 

Maybe its just a trend that will die out with the movies, but I don't think there is any deny that the market is evolving and changing more the last 2 years then the last 10 easily.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Fastballspecial

[Bosco685]

I admit, I have some of these but haven't read it (yet).

 

So who/what is this dude/thing on the cover that looks like a mecha version of Gambit?

 

Is it Gambit -- just a weird interpretation -- or someone that looks eerily similar?

 

 

Slym started a thread about these two books a while back.

 

What is the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

If you read the content of X-Men 266 and Annual 14, I believe it shows Ororo meeting Gambit in the former, and heading back to Xavier Mansion with Gambit in the latter.

 

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

[Illustrious]

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

[Bosco685]

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

 

Correct - due to a print scheduling error. X-Men 266 ' s story comes first before X-Men Annual 14.

[Illustrious]

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

 

Correct - due to a print scheduling error. X-Men 266 ' s story comes first before X-Men Annual 14.

 

I know, that's not debatable (the fact that chronologically the story in XMA #14 comes after XM #266), but error or not it was available to the public first. To me, the first time Gambit was ever featured in a comic story available to the public trumps whether it chronologically falls second within a bigger story.

[fastballspecial]

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

 

Correct - due to a print scheduling error. X-Men 266 ' s story comes first before X-Men Annual 14.

 

Yes I thought that's how it happened as well.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

 

Yes, the first published appearance of Gambit..by several weeks...is X-Men Annual #14.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

but error or not it was available to the public first. .

 

There was no error in publication...the books came out as they were meant to....unless we say that the entire DOFP storyline came out "sooner than it should have", by which time Marvel had already committed (which, still, doesn't make too much sense.)

 

To me, the first time Gambit was ever featured in a comic story available to the public trumps whether it chronologically falls second within a bigger story

 

This is easily demonstrated by the ASM #252/Secret Wars #8 "problem."

 

By publication, ASM #252 came out months and months before. 7 months, to be exact.

 

But story-wise, the first time we "meet" the symbiote is in SW #8.

[Bosco685]

If that is the case (need to read these two again), how could Annual 14 be the 1st appearance of Gambit?

 

It came out in stores/on the newstand first. Thus, the first time the public saw Gambit...right?

 

Correct - due to a print scheduling error. X-Men 266 ' s story comes first before X-Men Annual 14.

 

I know, that's not debatable (the fact that chronologically the story in XMA #14 comes after XM #266), but error or not it was available to the public first. To me, the first time Gambit was ever featured in a comic story available to the public trumps whether it chronologically falls second within a bigger story.

 

I hear you. And if you were to read through Slym's thread, you would see me pointing out X-Men Annual 14 is more than a cameo. I took pictures of each panel to help in the discussion.

 

But due to the known print error, one came out ahead of the other. It's that error that causes the market confusion. By the content, though, UXM 266 is the primary book. That's probably why the markets leans towards this one.

[Hekla]

I'll have to go back and re-read, but is Gambit even named in Ann. 14? I know he doesn't talk in the issue... Non-continuity cameo? Prototype?

[Bosco685]

I'll have to go back and re-read, but is Gambit even named in Ann. 14? I know he doesn't talk in the issue... Non-continuity cameo? Prototype?

 

I think he is mentioned by name. And at one point, it was assumed Ahab is Gambit in the future. But Gambit plays a minor role in Annual 14 compared to UXM 266.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'll have to go back and re-read, but is Gambit even named in Ann. 14? I know he doesn't talk in the issue... Non-continuity cameo? Prototype?

 

I'm pretty sure he doesn't speak.

 

If anyone believes annual #14 "came out in error", they are welcome to refer to the US Copyright information posted above, and provide whatever documentation there is to support such a claim.

 

I know this "error" business has been floated around for quite some time, but I've yet to see any concrete proof from anyone....it may have been an invention by those wishing to suppress Annual #14, who knows?

[Bosco685]

I'll have to go back and re-read, but is Gambit even named in Ann. 14? I know he doesn't talk in the issue... Non-continuity cameo? Prototype?

 

I think he is mentioned by name. And at one point, it was assumed Ahab is Gambit in the future. But Gambit plays a minor role in Annual 14 compared to UXM 266.

 

Found it. Page 15. Ororo clearly calls him 'Gambit' when they are discussing meeting one another in UXM 266.