My old Suscha News ASM - now a 9.9 ???

[Hibou]

It looks like the same book to me as well judging by the top left and right corners.

 

It may have been pressed but who knows...

 

At any rate, I'm sure this book will get a lot of attention!

[nmtg9]

Anyone else think the top corners should keep this out of the 9.9 grade?

 

Maybe it's just the scan but they don't exactly look razor sharp to me.

[He11blazer]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone tried to get a 9.8 upgraded. If anything it's probably as Dice said, they had it regraded because the case was cracked or scuffed and it happened to get a bump up. The only other plausible explanation would be an 'inside job', and I wouldn't like to imply that.

 

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

So I (naively) don't think this book has been pressed. I would (naively) guess that someone got lucky without trying while resubbing for other reasons.

[lb jefferies]

Since it's a pedigree and thus pretty visible in the hobby wouldn't CGC clue in to the fact that by upping the grade it would basically create this thread. Everyone crack out your 9.8s

[The-Collector]

Anyone else think the top corners should keep this out of the 9.9 grade?

 

Maybe it's just the scan but they don't exactly look razor sharp to me.

 

Don't start that argument.

[thirdgreenham]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone tried to get a 9.8 upgraded. If anything it's probably as Dice said, they had it regraded because the case was cracked or scuffed and it happened to get a bump up. The only other plausible explanation would be an 'inside job', and I wouldn't like to imply that.

 

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

So I (naively) don't think this book has been pressed. I would (naively) guess that someone got lucky without trying while resubbing for other reasons.

 

Yeah, monkeys put them in boxes after they're printed. (thumbs u

 

[Jeffro.]

Well, I hope whoever buys this minty 9.9 feels it's worth the gazillion extra dollars that he'll have to pay than when it was a 9.8 a few months ago.

 

I mean seriously, is it really worth that much to people to pay for a label?

 

Sadly, to some people yes. It's the same mentality that caused that one guy to pay 12K+ or some such absurd price for the first New Mutants 98 9.9

 

However, if you've got that much scratch to throw at comics, who am I to judge?

[VintageComics]

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

Paper is pressed in the creation process. Every piece of newsprint is pressed before it ever becomes a comic. Otherwise it couldn't be so flat.

 

A letter from the creator of newsprint circa 1844. the letter was presented to a Halifax newspaper: (I didn't realize it was a Canadian invention).

Messrs. English & Blackadar,

 

Enclosed is a small piece of PAPER, the result of an experiment I have made, in order to ascertain if that useful article might not be manufactured from WOOD. The result has proved that opinion to be correct, for- by the sample which I have sent you, Gentlemen- you will perceive the feasibility of it. The enclosed, which is as firm in its texture as white, and to all appearance as durable as the common wrapping paper made from hemp, cotton, or the ordinary materials of manufacture is ACTUALLY COMPOSED OF SPRUCE WOOD, reduced to a pulp, and subjected to the same treatment as paper is in course of being made, only with this exception, VIZ: my insufficient means of giving it the required pressure. I entertain an opinion that our common forest trees, either hard or soft wood, but more especially the fir, spruce, or poplar, on account of the fibrous quality of their wood, might easily be reduced by a chafing machine, and manufactured into paper of the finest kind. This opinion, Sirs, I think the experiment will justify, and leaving it to be prosecuted further by the scientific, or the curious.

 

I remain, Gentlemen, your obdt. servant,

 

CHARLES FENERTY.

 

The Acadian Recorder

Halifax, N.S.

Saturday, October 26, 1844

[VintageComics]

I think what is happening is CGC is loosening up their standards just a hair on how tough it is to get a 9.9.

 

To quote another heavy submitter "They're tighter than a frog's a22 right now".

 

 

[cheetah]

What some of you don't realize is that there are folks in the hobby who have handled enough 9.9 and 10 books to know what one looks like. In addition, a lot of these folks submit enough to recognize fluctuations in CGC's grading. There are folks out there that would see this and realize it was an opportunity and be willing to take a shot. As a 9.8, this issue has been a falling knife for 2-3 years. You can't re-sell one for a profit. As a 9.9, though, heck, it only costs $50 to run it through CFP and take a shot at $10,000 in profit.

 

As far as the internal pressing/CGC issue. Classics is still in the process of moving and their phones in Florida don't even get answered yet. If it happened a month from now, you'd be welcome to discuss it, but right now, you can't even get Matt Nelson on the phone.

[Doc Joe]

Anyone else think the top corners should keep this out of the 9.9 grade?

 

Maybe it's just the scan but they don't exactly look razor sharp to me.

 

+1

[faster friends]

What some of you don't realize is that there are folks in the hobby who have handled enough 9.9 and 10 books to know what one looks like. In addition, a lot of these folks submit enough to recognize fluctuations in CGC's grading. There are folks out there that would see this and realize it was an opportunity and be willing to take a shot. As a 9.8, this issue has been a falling knife for 2-3 years. You can't re-sell one for a profit. As a 9.9, though, heck, it only costs $50 to run it through CFP and take a shot at $10,000 in profit.

 

As far as the internal pressing/CGC issue. Classics is still in the process of moving and their phones in Florida don't even get answered yet. If it happened a month from now, you'd be welcome to discuss it, but right now, you can't even get Matt Nelson on the phone.

 

Got to be more than $50 / I just sent in a Modern for fast track CPR and the total bill with $100 insurance is $61.50

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone tried to get a 9.8 upgraded. If anything it's probably as Dice said, they had it regraded because the case was cracked or scuffed and it happened to get a bump up. The only other plausible explanation would be an 'inside job', and I wouldn't like to imply that.

 

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

So I (naively) don't think this book has been pressed. I would (naively) guess that someone got lucky without trying while resubbing for other reasons.

 

Dice was saying a reholder not a regrade and I think he was being facetious. (imagine that)

 

There is no way in hell a book going in for a reholder is EVER bumped up from a 9.8

 

I would be surprised if this book was not pressed

[VintageComics]

Just my but you can never compare scans accurately unless the difference is larger than just a few pixels.

 

I remember a couple of years ago everyone argued that a Marvel Mystery comic was trimmed using before and after scans to compare. Turned out it wasn't.

 

Digital scanners can create all sorts of illusions that the naked eye will accept as real. Arguing over small digital scans, especially if they were made on different scanners, is really not going to amount to anything...unless like I said the difference are larger than a few pixels.

 

 

[He11blazer]

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

Paper is pressed in the creation process. Every piece of newsprint is pressed before it ever becomes a comic. Otherwise it couldn't be so flat.

 

A letter from the creator of newsprint circa 1844. the letter was presented to a Halifax newspaper: (I didn't realize it was a Canadian invention).

Messrs. English & Blackadar,

 

Enclosed is a small piece of PAPER, the result of an experiment I have made, in order to ascertain if that useful article might not be manufactured from WOOD. The result has proved that opinion to be correct, for- by the sample which I have sent you, Gentlemen- you will perceive the feasibility of it. The enclosed, which is as firm in its texture as white, and to all appearance as durable as the common wrapping paper made from hemp, cotton, or the ordinary materials of manufacture is ACTUALLY COMPOSED OF SPRUCE WOOD, reduced to a pulp, and subjected to the same treatment as paper is in course of being made, only with this exception, VIZ: my insufficient means of giving it the required pressure. I entertain an opinion that our common forest trees, either hard or soft wood, but more especially the fir, spruce, or poplar, on account of the fibrous quality of their wood, might easily be reduced by a chafing machine, and manufactured into paper of the finest kind. This opinion, Sirs, I think the experiment will justify, and leaving it to be prosecuted further by the scientific, or the curious.

 

I remain, Gentlemen, your obdt. servant,

 

CHARLES FENERTY.

 

The Acadian Recorder

Halifax, N.S.

Saturday, October 26, 1844

 

Nice historical snippet! I'm aware of what paper is made of and roughly how it is made. I'm also aware that what I said is true. Finished, printed paper that is later subjected to a heated/humidified pressing is altered or 'damaged' if you prefer. Someone who knew what they were doing could take a pressed and unpressed book and categorically state which was which by close examination.

 

Not having a go at the whole pressing thing. It really doesn't much interest or bother me. Just stating a fact.

[He11blazer]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone tried to get a 9.8 upgraded. If anything it's probably as Dice said, they had it regraded because the case was cracked or scuffed and it happened to get a bump up. The only other plausible explanation would be an 'inside job', and I wouldn't like to imply that.

 

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

So I (naively) don't think this book has been pressed. I would (naively) guess that someone got lucky without trying while resubbing for other reasons.

 

Dice was saying a reholder not a regrade and I think he was being facetious. (imagine that)

 

There is no way in hell a book going in for a reholder is EVER bumped up from a 9.8

 

I would be surprised if this book was not pressed

 

Indeed, but I was diplomatically pointing out that it is the only feasible explanation that involves neither stupidity nor underhandedness.

[Sqeggs]

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

Paper is pressed in the creation process. Every piece of newsprint is pressed before it ever becomes a comic. Otherwise it couldn't be so flat.

 

A letter from the creator of newsprint circa 1844. the letter was presented to a Halifax newspaper: (I didn't realize it was a Canadian invention).

Messrs. English & Blackadar,

 

Enclosed is a small piece of PAPER, the result of an experiment I have made, in order to ascertain if that useful article might not be manufactured from WOOD. The result has proved that opinion to be correct, for- by the sample which I have sent you, Gentlemen- you will perceive the feasibility of it. The enclosed, which is as firm in its texture as white, and to all appearance as durable as the common wrapping paper made from hemp, cotton, or the ordinary materials of manufacture is ACTUALLY COMPOSED OF SPRUCE WOOD, reduced to a pulp, and subjected to the same treatment as paper is in course of being made, only with this exception, VIZ: my insufficient means of giving it the required pressure. I entertain an opinion that our common forest trees, either hard or soft wood, but more especially the fir, spruce, or poplar, on account of the fibrous quality of their wood, might easily be reduced by a chafing machine, and manufactured into paper of the finest kind. This opinion, Sirs, I think the experiment will justify, and leaving it to be prosecuted further by the scientific, or the curious.

 

I remain, Gentlemen, your obdt. servant,

 

CHARLES FENERTY.

 

The Acadian Recorder

Halifax, N.S.

Saturday, October 26, 1844

 

Nice historical snippet! I'm aware of what paper is made of and roughly how it is made. I'm also aware that what I said is true. Finished, printed paper that is later subjected to a heated/humidified pressing is altered or 'damaged' if you prefer. Someone who knew what they were doing could take a pressed and unpressed book and categorically state which was which by close examination.

 

Not having a go at the whole pressing thing. It really doesn't much interest or bother me. Just stating a fact.

 

The whole pressing thing has been beaten to death with a stick on these boards ... but my understanding is that CGC's position is that they would not be able to reliably distinguish the pressed from the unpressed.

[He11blazer]

The idea that someone would press a bronze 9.8 and resub for a 9.9 is ridiculous for several reasons. Firstly, it is so unlikely to work that you'd be a fool to try it. Secondly a press would (should) negate the possiblity of a 9.9. I don't care what the pressers say, pressing damages the book even as it smooths out blemishes. The paper fibres tell the story. Pressing does not magically restore paper, it squashes it. How could squashed paper qualify for the 'untouched by human hands' 9.9? It can't.

 

Paper is pressed in the creation process. Every piece of newsprint is pressed before it ever becomes a comic. Otherwise it couldn't be so flat.

 

A letter from the creator of newsprint circa 1844. the letter was presented to a Halifax newspaper: (I didn't realize it was a Canadian invention).

Messrs. English & Blackadar,

 

Enclosed is a small piece of PAPER, the result of an experiment I have made, in order to ascertain if that useful article might not be manufactured from WOOD. The result has proved that opinion to be correct, for- by the sample which I have sent you, Gentlemen- you will perceive the feasibility of it. The enclosed, which is as firm in its texture as white, and to all appearance as durable as the common wrapping paper made from hemp, cotton, or the ordinary materials of manufacture is ACTUALLY COMPOSED OF SPRUCE WOOD, reduced to a pulp, and subjected to the same treatment as paper is in course of being made, only with this exception, VIZ: my insufficient means of giving it the required pressure. I entertain an opinion that our common forest trees, either hard or soft wood, but more especially the fir, spruce, or poplar, on account of the fibrous quality of their wood, might easily be reduced by a chafing machine, and manufactured into paper of the finest kind. This opinion, Sirs, I think the experiment will justify, and leaving it to be prosecuted further by the scientific, or the curious.

 

I remain, Gentlemen, your obdt. servant,

 

CHARLES FENERTY.

 

The Acadian Recorder

Halifax, N.S.

Saturday, October 26, 1844

 

Nice historical snippet! I'm aware of what paper is made of and roughly how it is made. I'm also aware that what I said is true. Finished, printed paper that is later subjected to a heated/humidified pressing is altered or 'damaged' if you prefer. Someone who knew what they were doing could take a pressed and unpressed book and categorically state which was which by close examination.

 

Not having a go at the whole pressing thing. It really doesn't much interest or bother me. Just stating a fact.

 

The whole pressing thing has been beaten to death with a stick on these boards ... but my understanding is that CGC's position is that they would not be able to reliably distinguish the pressed from the unpressed.

 

I'm sure that's true, at least without hitech examination of the fibres. Without going to such extremes, the type of damage done by pressing would probably be difficult/impossible to distinguish from other types of damage. It would still be damage though, and could never pass for a 9.9 or 10 (in my view).

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

Buyer has spent 1000s of $$ on 9.8s on eBay this month alone, mostly copper age Spideys. Could be lucky collector, or could have an operation going.

 

What some of you don't realize is that there are folks in the hobby who have handled enough 9.9 and 10 books to know what one looks like. In addition, a lot of these folks submit enough to recognize fluctuations in CGC's grading. There are folks out there that would see this and realize it was an opportunity and be willing to take a shot. As a 9.8, this issue has been a falling knife for 2-3 years. You can't re-sell one for a profit. As a 9.9, though, heck, it only costs $50 to run it through CFP and take a shot at $10,000 in profit.

 

I think it highly unlikely that someone buying up 1000s of $$ worth of 9.8 copper Spideys on ebay would be someone who has handled enough 9.9 and 10 books to know what to look for. There are simply too many things you can not see through the slab, especially on anything other than modern books, to make it worthwhile to crack and hope for a miracle.

[VintageComics]

I'm sure that's true, at least without hitech examination of the fibres. Without going to such extremes, the type of damage done by pressing would probably be difficult/impossible to distinguish from other types of damage. It would still be damage though, and could never pass for a 9.9 or 10 (in my view).

 

I think molecular (or just plain old microlecular - yes I made up that wonderful word ) damage is not the type of damage that CGC is looking for when assessing the grade of a book. If so, they should discount for stuff like invisible finger oils. We may get there one day but for the most part, not likely any time soon.