I like them tooDAREDEVIL 158 - 191 WHY CHANGE IT NOW??!!??

[RMI High Tech]

Hey CGC and Daredevil folks. I have worked really friggin hard over a 3 year period to create the BEST Daredevil 158-191 Miller Era set.

The set doesn't say MILLER COVERS, it sayd DD 158-191.

A few months ago you added WHat IF 28 and 35 and then SSM 26 and 27, both having Frank Miller cover work. Fine. I dont know why, but fine....

Then you just dropped DD 162 from a set labeled DD 158-191...I mean does 162 not fall within that number sequence??

I am sure you could make a nice MILLER cover set for all those folks, and maybe I would add it too.

Just like I added Michael Turner Covers to my CGC registry cause I really like them!!

But if ya want a Miller stand alone Cover set, make one, dont mess with DD 158-191 !!! ****** CHANGE IT BACK!!! **********

What ya think?

Matt Holly

[RMI High Tech]

And whoever ended up with DD 161 9.9WP...please contact me!!

[faster friends]

They are not Miller covers. The 4 books that were added all have interior Frank Miller Daredevil Artwork. If you want a MIller Era set, you need those 4 books.

 

The DD 162 has ZERO Miller Artwork. This one, you dont need.

[faster friends]

Or we can change the name of the set to: Frank Miller Daredevils.

[CardiacKid1]

Matt,

 

Since I was the one to request the change, I thought I should respond. In my opinion, excluding DD 162 from the set is a no-brainer. Including Spectacular Spider-Man 27 & 28 and What If 28 & 35 also makes sense. So let me explain.

 

I know you're old enough -- like me -- to have bought these Miller DD's when they were first published. So like me, you know that Miller first auditioned for this gig by illustrating two issues of Spectacular Spider-Man (27 & 28), guest-starring Daredevil. Like the Beatles playing Get Back on a London roof top in 1969, Miller "passed the audition" and was announced as the regular penciller with great fanfare (relative to the day) in DD 158.

 

Back then DD was bi-monthly. It was difficult to wait 60 days between installments. Miller was co-plotting stories with scripter Roger McKenzie in those days. After three more exciting stories involving Bullseye and the Black Widow, I anxiously arrived at my newsstand expecting a McKenzie/Miller Hulk cross-over story in DD 162... And got a Michael Fleischer/Steve Ditko fill-in story.

 

Marvel had a stock of fill-in stories for its titles in those days, in order to avoid publishing a reprint when a creative team missed its deadline. This Fleischer/Ditko story was a pretty good one, by fill-in standards. But it had nothing to do with Miller's run on the title. There's no Miller cover, no Miller writing, no Miller art. If you're going to collect these comics for a trade paperback or anthology, you're going to exclude the DD 162 fill-in story.

 

Which brings us to this Registry set. Yes, the official title is "Daredevil 158-191," but I think we can agree that the intent of this set is to collect all the Miller-written and/or drawn Daredevils of that era. And DD 162 is not one of them.

 

What If 28 & 35, on the other hand, featured Miller-drawn Matt Murdock/DD stories, so they are properly part of this set.

 

Again, in my opinion.

[HarveySwick]

IMHO... I think some of the changes are good ideas and some not so much. Here's my take on it...

 

First off, definitely think adding the Spectacular Spider-man issues was a smart decision. I would have thought that even before reading Cardiac's explanation about Miller's audition of drawing DD. I knew Miller wanted the assignment of DD and that the SSM issues came out before #158. So why not include those? (I get it, not Daredevil issues. But this is "Miller's Daredevil" right?)

 

Secondly, I agree that if Miller had nothing to do with #162 and that was a "fill-in" issue, it shouldn't be included. I even pulled Daredevil: Visionaries 1 (Miller) and low and behold - no issue #162. With that being said, the set should not be called: "158 - 191". Should be changed to Miller Original Run or Miller First Run or something like that. Another idea would be just include to the Born Again issues and just have a Daredevil: Frank Miller Registry Set and include the SSM issues.

 

What I don't agree with is including the What-If issues. What If's were always great/fun stories (I remember as a kid - What is Wolverine was Lord of the Vampires! HA!). But they're just that - a fun tale of make believe with characters. They're not "real" stories taking place in the Marvel universe. So even though those issues do include both Daredevil and Frank Miller, I wouldn't include them.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

[faster friends]

Can't see how you can have a Frank Miller DD set without the What-Ifs?

 

If you are trying to collect all Frank Miller drawn issues, that's it, as far as I know.

 

DD #158-191 minus the 162

PP #27 -28

What-If 28 and #35

 

I don't count the Born Again run because Miller did no interior art.

[CardiacKid1]

I agree with faster friends, but at least we all agree that 162 should not be a part of the set.

 

But your set is still #1, Matt! With all those 9.9's you have, your set is safe!

[HarveySwick]

 

Ok, you guys have convinced me. Makes perfectly good sense not including the Born Again set because like you said - no Miller DD Art. And that's what this really is about, not Miller storytelling. Because if this were Miller storytelling, 158 - 167 wouldn't be included and no one would think that's a good idea to exclude those. And since we're only focusing on Miller DD art, I guess you're right to include the What-If's. I withdraw my prior dissent.

 

And 162 shouldn't be anywhere near this - No Miller art or story. But the name should still be changed from 158 - 191 to Daredevil: Miller or something similar. Unless you put a little asterisk and note that 162 is excluded and no one wants an asterisk.

[Doc Joe]

I have seen this happen so many times.

 

People get an idea about what a set should be and start trying to change it.

 

If a set is called Daredevil 158 - 167 then thats what it should contain IMHO.

 

Leave established sets alone and request a new one called Frank Miller Daredevils and some What Ifs thrown in.

 

People dont mind adding new sets but changing established ones can ruffle things, I think the title has a big part in what should be in the set.

 

I fully agree with the Original Post, leave the sets alone, make a new one if you want one

 

[CardiacKid1]

Doc,

 

Your argument presupposes that we always get things right the first time. That's a heck of an assumption to make.

 

I think it would be silly to have a "DD 158-191 set" AND a "Miller Daredevils" set. Why was DD 158 - 191 even a set in the first place? Was it because DD 158 and 191 are some special numbers? No. Was it for any reason other than the fact that those issues contain Miller Daredevils? No. The set was formed because those issues include Miller's first run on the title.

 

DD 157 isn't included in the set because it has Colan art. DD 192 isn't included because it has Janson art. And DD 162 should not be included in the set because it has Ditko art. The set is about Frank Miller's first run on Daredevil -- and that is why DD 162 should be excluded but Miller's other Matt Murdock/Daredevils of the era (SS 27/28 and What If 28/35) should be included.

 

I would note that for completists, DD 1-310 and 1-380 are established sets. DD 162 is properly included in those sets.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

Doc,

 

Your argument presupposes that we always get things right the first time. That's a heck of an assumption to make.

 

I think it would be silly to have a "DD 158-191 set" AND a "Miller Daredevils" set. Why was DD 158 - 191 even a set in the first place? Was it because DD 158 and 191 are some special numbers? No. Was it for any reason other than the fact that those issues contain Miller Daredevils? No. The set was formed because those issues include Miller's first run on the title.

 

DD 157 isn't included in the set because it has Colan art. DD 192 isn't included because it has Janson art. And DD 162 should not be included in the set because it has Ditko art. The set is about Frank Miller's first run on Daredevil -- and that is why DD 162 should be excluded but Miller's other Matt Murdock/Daredevils of the era (SS 27/28 and What If 28/35) should be included.

 

I would note that for completists, DD 1-310 and 1-380 are established sets. DD 162 is properly included in those sets.

 

 

 

+1

 

The basic premise behind the entire set listing is this - we're not simply looking at a set of DD's from the very end of the 70's into the 80's OR a sequence of numbers (#1-100) - there is a very specific purpose for this set. Miller's take on Daredevil. Hence, why I was convinced, after debate, that the What-If's and Spectacular issues should be included despite the fact that I don't collect either of those issues (not Daredevil Vol. 1). But they're DD stories told with Miller artwork.

 

And sometimes revisions, changes and tweaks need to be made in order to make something accomplish what it was originally designed to do.