My LCS Rant (Long Read)...

[Chaseman210]

I don't see a problem with a shop setting limits but it seems out of line when they question why you're buying a comic. "Because I want it" would have been my reply. If it's a hot comic he should have known to order extra. After he's pulled his subs and he has a one per customer limit, there should be no more interrogations.

 

I get the idea that very few people on these boards have any clue as to the process and limitations of how new comics orders are placed.

 

Yep. We all "choose" not to order "hot" comics three months before they become "hot".

 

 

You would know more than me about ordering since you own comic shops. So I agree with you about that. The problem I had was that I was just buying one issue from the ones on the shelf; not the ones set aside for members. The reason for my purchase, whether hype or interest, shouldn't matter, especially since I only brought one copy to the counter.

[Jeffro.]

Man, am I glad I don't buy moderns

[MrBedrock]

How late can a store up their standing orders on a book, and are there any "rules" from publishers and/or distributors regarding immediately dropping those orders the following month? Is it really as simple or economical (selling more of one issue but being stuck with tons or copies of future issues and no one to buy) as just getting more copies?

 

In the end, I suppose even retail stores can ultimately do what they want to do. Luckily, I've had great shops in town.

Retailers do their initial orders on each issue usually two months before ship date. The big publishers then have a system where retailers can do a final adjustment on their orders three weeks prior to ship. This is called an FOC (or final order cutoff). Retailers can adjust their numbers up or down at this time. Since each issue is ordered independently there is no problem with radically adjusting order amounts on a given title from issue to issue.

The problem with Batman Inc. 8 was that the news of the storyline broke after the FOC on that issue. The only way to increase orders at that time is by placing what is called an advance reorder. Basically reordering before the book has shipped. It isn't hard to do, but those reorders are not guaranteed. And even if they are confirmed they are not guaranteed to ship with the initial orders. DC obviously did a pretty large over print on the issue knowing that the storyline was important. Whether or not they anticipated the amount of press coverage is unknown. Regardless, they were able to fill many of those advance reorders. Most of them will ship this week from Diamond. The interesting thing will be to see which stores sell those reorders (still first prints) at cover price and which stores will mark them up. If anyone is in Houston we should have ours Wednesday and they will be cover price. And for those tracking this sort of thing, we will probably limit them to one per customer.

[Chaseman210]

How late can a store up their standing orders on a book, and are there any "rules" from publishers and/or distributors regarding immediately dropping those orders the following month? Is it really as simple or economical (selling more of one issue but being stuck with tons or copies of future issues and no one to buy) as just getting more copies?

 

In the end, I suppose even retail stores can ultimately do what they want to do. Luckily, I've had great shops in town.

Retailers do their initial orders on each issue usually two months before ship date. The big publishers then have a system where retailers can do a final adjustment on their orders three weeks prior to ship. This is called an FOC (or final order cutoff). Retailers can adjust their numbers up or down at this time. Since each issue is ordered independently there is no problem with radically adjusting order amounts on a given title from issue to issue.

The problem with Batman Inc. 8 was that the news of the storyline broke after the FOC on that issue. The only way to increase orders at that time is by placing what is called an advance reorder. Basically reordering before the book has shipped. It isn't hard to do, but those reorders are not guaranteed. And even if they are confirmed they are not guaranteed to ship with the initial orders. DC obviously did a pretty large over print on the issue knowing that the storyline was important. Whether or not they anticipated the amount of press coverage is unknown. Regardless, they were able to fill many of those advance reorders. Most of them will ship this week from Diamond. The interesting thing will be to see which stores sell those reorders (still first prints) at cover price and which stores will mark them up. If anyone is in Houston we should have ours Wednesday and they will be cover price. And for those tracking this sort of thing, we will probably limit them to one per customer.

 

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

[Point Five]

The interesting thing will be to see which stores sell those reorders (still first prints) at cover price and which stores will mark them up. If anyone is in Houston we should have ours Wednesday and they will be cover price. And for those tracking this sort of thing, we will probably limit them to one per customer.

 

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

 

It's been a long time since I had the headaches pleasure of dealing with Diamond on a regular basis (I owned my store back in 1996-1999). While I had the occasional problems crop up on a week-to-week basis and would have a book get shorted every now and then, it definitely wasn't an every week (or nearly every week basis) like what you're describing with your local store. As I said, it's been a while since I dealt with them, but from what my LCS owner tells me (and a couple of other LCS owners in the immediate area I talk to somewhat regularly mirror), the shortage from Diamond of a title isn't something that's happening every week or anything resembling that frequency.

 

Based on how you described the owner of your store, I wonder if "Diamond shorted my order and that's why I don't have this book" is possibly equivalent to "The dog ate my homework" on a list of valid excuses. Back in the day (when my store was one of more than a dozen in the metro area), I know that line was trotted out by at least one of my competitors when the truth was more along the lines of "I sold your copy somewhere else".

[MrBedrock]

 

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

I would bet that Diamond does not regularly short the shop that you visit. When a retailer habitually says he is being shorted by Diamond that usually means that the retailer is habitually under-ordering product. He is just placing the blame elsewhere. From time to time product does get mis-counted, damaged or allocated by Diamond. But in my experience that is something that happens very rarely. And on new comics Diamond is very good about finding replacement copies to fulfill orders. So if he is habitually short that means he is habitually not increasing his orders.

[Bookery]

 

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

I would bet that Diamond does not regularly short the shop that you visit. When a retailer habitually says he is being shorted by Diamond that usually means that the retailer is habitually under-ordering product. He is just placing the blame elsewhere. From time to time product does get mis-counted, damaged or allocated by Diamond. But in my experience that is something that happens very rarely. And on new comics Diamond is very good about finding replacement copies to fulfill orders. So if he is habitually short that means he is habitually not increasing his orders.

 

Probably true, in that case. However, you must be having a lot better luck with Diamond than we are. There is never a single week in which we don't have shipping errors, and even more likely, damages. Sometimes a few, sometimes a lot, but it happens every week. Sometimes we've had to return as many as 100 damaged comics, not to mention GNs, etc. This may be spread across many titles, or an entire run of a comic can be wiped out.

 

Now, in most cases, we can get these replaced if it's not something unusual. But that doesn't make the folks who want it the day of release any happier, and I'm sure in their minds it's us that's pulling something over on them.

 

Of course, in the old days, people were a lot more tolerant of corner bumps and small creases. Today, where everything has to be 9.8 minty fresh, the threshold for damages is less.

[COI]

And for those tracking this sort of thing, we will probably limit them to one per customer.

 

Communist.

[Chaseman210]

He gave the whole story about his dealings with Diamond on week when I went in. The most recent (besides Revival) was the newest Venom. Before that it was Scarlet Spider. Because his shop is so small, he only orders about 10 copies of some titles. I'm not sure if they overlook such a small order or what, but he told me that he gets shorted, and Diamond offers him a refund.

 

In the case of Scarlet Spider, he was shorted, then ordered from somewhere else online, and then two weeks later, the original order from Diamond showed up. Then he couldn't sell them because the issue was two weeks old.

 

I don't think it's an excuse he uses because I'm friends with one of the subscribers who has a pull list, and he doesn't get his copy either whenever the shop is shorted.

[Erndog]

So if some complete random enters the store and picks it up and buys if they get the no questions asked treatment but if you do, a loyal customer who continously buys books each week buys them you get grilled? To the point where you are now uncomfortable returning?

 

I don't get people. The dude shoulda been pleased you're buying more and might have a new title you collect.

 

Not to mention, the fact he has to ask you to be part of his special club seems incredibly condescending.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

 

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

I would bet that Diamond does not regularly short the shop that you visit. When a retailer habitually says he is being shorted by Diamond that usually means that the retailer is habitually under-ordering product. He is just placing the blame elsewhere. From time to time product does get mis-counted, damaged or allocated by Diamond. But in my experience that is something that happens very rarely. And on new comics Diamond is very good about finding replacement copies to fulfill orders. So if he is habitually short that means he is habitually not increasing his orders.

 

Probably true, in that case. However, you must be having a lot better luck with Diamond than we are. There is never a single week in which we don't have shipping errors, and even more likely, damages. Sometimes a few, sometimes a lot, but it happens every week. Sometimes we've had to return as many as 100 damaged comics, not to mention GNs, etc. This may be spread across many titles, or an entire run of a comic can be wiped out.

 

Now, in most cases, we can get these replaced if it's not something unusual. But that doesn't make the folks who want it the day of release any happier, and I'm sure in their minds it's us that's pulling something over on them.

 

Of course, in the old days, people were a lot more tolerant of corner bumps and small creases. Today, where everything has to be 9.8 minty fresh, the threshold for damages is less.

 

Not sure where you get your books shipped out of, but those sound like the kind of horror stories I hear about from the Memphis warehouse.

[Chaseman210]

So if some complete random enters the store and picks it up and buys if they get the no questions asked treatment but if you do, a loyal customer who continously buys books each week buys them you get grilled? To the point where you are now uncomfortable returning?

 

I don't get people. The dude shoulda been pleased you're buying more and might have a new title you collect.

 

Not to mention, the fact he has to ask you to be part of his special club seems incredibly condescending.

 

 

I agree. Before I started reading comics, two guys who are members there (who I'm friends with) told me he asks you to join once he realizes you're a regular customer. I almost died laughing about that.

[MrBedrock]

 

Thanks for that info. I never knew how ordering works. Diamond usually shorts the shop I talked about in the original post. I don't know why, but it's almost weekly with certain Marvel titles and last week with Revival #7.

I would bet that Diamond does not regularly short the shop that you visit. When a retailer habitually says he is being shorted by Diamond that usually means that the retailer is habitually under-ordering product. He is just placing the blame elsewhere. From time to time product does get mis-counted, damaged or allocated by Diamond. But in my experience that is something that happens very rarely. And on new comics Diamond is very good about finding replacement copies to fulfill orders. So if he is habitually short that means he is habitually not increasing his orders.

 

Probably true, in that case. However, you must be having a lot better luck with Diamond than we are. There is never a single week in which we don't have shipping errors, and even more likely, damages. Sometimes a few, sometimes a lot, but it happens every week. Sometimes we've had to return as many as 100 damaged comics, not to mention GNs, etc. This may be spread across many titles, or an entire run of a comic can be wiped out.

 

Now, in most cases, we can get these replaced if it's not something unusual. But that doesn't make the folks who want it the day of release any happier, and I'm sure in their minds it's us that's pulling something over on them.

 

Of course, in the old days, people were a lot more tolerant of corner bumps and small creases. Today, where everything has to be 9.8 minty fresh, the threshold for damages is less.

 

Not sure where you get your books shipped out of, but those sound like the kind of horror stories I hear about from the Memphis warehouse.

We get our stuff out of Memphis and there was a time when the rate of damages or mistakes was pretty high. But in the last few years that rate as gotten much better. And especially in the last year where the mistake rate on our orders has been phenomenally low. To give some perspective, our main store has Diamond invoices that average about $9500 at cost and about 3900 total units shipped per week. That is 3900 individual comics, toys, trinkets or whatever...but mostly comics. Over the last three months we have had to call in an average of about 5 units per week. Again that is 5 out of 3900 and that could be an item damaged in packing, or shipping (via UPS), or a misplaced item or something that wasn't picked and packed off of the invoice. I know that we should expect perfection every week. But in my opinion, given the amount of material Diamond is pulling, packing and shipping, 5 out of 3900 is pretty darn good.

[Bookery]

We get our stuff out of Memphis and there was a time when the rate of damages or mistakes was pretty high. But in the last few years that rate as gotten much better. And especially in the last year where the mistake rate on our orders has been phenomenally low. To give some perspective, our main store has Diamond invoices that average about $9500 at cost and about 3900 total units shipped per week. That is 3900 individual comics, toys, trinkets or whatever...but mostly comics. Over the last three months we have had to call in an average of about 5 units per week. Again that is 5 out of 3900 and that could be an item damaged in packing, or shipping (via UPS), or a misplaced item or something that wasn't picked and packed off of the invoice. I know that we should expect perfection every week. But in my opinion, given the amount of material Diamond is pulling, packing and shipping, 5 out of 3900 is pretty darn good.

 

We do a much smaller business in new comics than you, but I would say we have several times your error/damage rate. Of course, it goes through spells. And I think errors are down lately, but damages are still pretty high. We've also had a huge turnover in Reps the past 2-3 years, sometimes going weeks or months without our own Rep at all! Most of them are pretty good... it's just that they don't stick around very long.

 

Anyway... I'm not meaning to sidetrack this about Diamond... but I did just want to point out to the general public that if your local shop is out of a title at opening, it doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are up to anything suspicious. Especially in cases where there is a big media hype just a day or two before release, there is often very little they can do, especially if the publisher hasn't planned for sufficient and timely restocks.

 

As for shop owner attitude-- well, that's an entirely different matter. Although in some cases, I'm wondering if the owner is really serious with his comments, or is just trying to tease... especially when it comes to regulars? It's possible, perhaps in some cases, they're just trying to joke around and aren't very adept at it. On the other hand, I've known a number of dealers over the years who can't stand the thought of someone flipping a book they bought and making instant cash off it. As for me... once you've bought it, it's yours... I don't care if you profit 10-fold with it that same afternoon! In fact... I hope you do....you'll have more money to spend with me next time!

 

 

[MrBedrock]

 

Anyway... I'm not meaning to sidetrack this about Diamond... but I did just want to point out to the general public that if your local shop is out of a title at opening, it doesn't mean, necessarily, that they are up to anything suspicious. Especially in cases where there is a big media hype just a day or two before release, there is often very little they can do, especially if the publisher hasn't planned for sufficient and timely restocks.

 

As for shop owner attitude-- well, that's an entirely different matter. Although in some cases, I'm wondering if the owner is really serious with his comments, or is just trying to tease... especially when it comes to regulars? It's possible, perhaps in some cases, they're just trying to joke around and aren't very adept at it. On the other hand, I've known a number of dealers over the years who can't stand the thought of someone flipping a book they bought and making instant cash off it. As for me... once you've bought it, it's yours... I don't care if you profit 10-fold with it that same afternoon! In fact... I hope you do....you'll have more money to spend with me next time!

 

Agree completely (thumbs u

[shadroch]

How does Diamond handle it if books arrive with bends and tears? Back in my time, I'd put those books aside and once a month or so I'd send them back. Never got official credits for them but the folks at Crown and Comics Unlimited always gave me something for them.

[chrisco37]

And for those tracking this sort of thing, we will probably limit them to one per customer.

 

Communist.

 

(worship)

[ImageMask]

Okay...I don't usually post rants about anything on these boards, but I just wanted to see what you guys have to say. Here's the whole back story (leading up to today) that I feel is necessary to explain the current situation:

 

Whenever Superior Spider-Man #1 was released, I took two copies to the counter (one for myself and the other for my 7-year-old brother who was at school). The owner said I could only purchase one copy and the second would be $10. I tried to explain I was getting it for my brother, and he wouldn't sell, so I only bought one.

 

Fast forward to the third issue of Superior Spider-Man. My two younger cousins (around the same age as my brother) reads this title. My uncle took his son to the store to buy issue #3. My other cousin had been sick all week, so they were going to get it for him since he couldn't go to the store. The owner said he couldn't do that because he would get in trouble. My uncle explained about my other cousin, and the owner knows both by name, so he knew who my uncle was talking about. He still wouldn't sell.

 

Now I know both of those incidents involved buying more than one issue, and I understand some stores have limits, etc. That's the reason I still purchase my comics from him even though it irked me.

 

I went in today to buy a couple of comics and decided to pick up a copy of Batman Inc. #8 to see how Damien dies. There were two copies left, so I got one. I walk to the counter to purchase, and he flips through the comics as he is ringing them up. When he gets to the Batman Inc. issue, he asks, "Do you normally purchase this title?" I told him no. Then he asked, "Then why are you purchasing it?" I didn't expect him to ask that, but I told him how I read DotF and wanted to see how Damien died since a lot of people thought it would happen in the DotF arc. He then said, "This is the kind of purchase that skews all the orders up. Buying because of hype." I kinda laughed it off, paid for the items and left.

 

1) If he knew there was a lot of hype, he could have ordered more to sell more.

2) He had already pulled out all the issues for his subscribers.

 

I'm not the kind of reader that spends $70+ a week, but I do go there every week to buy Superior, Nightwing, Venom, Morbius, Walking Dead, Revival, Bedlam, and he is supposed to start ordering Nowhere Men for me (he doesn't currently order it because nobody asked for it before I did). I'm not a subscriber because he has to "ask" you to become one. Plus, it's $5 per year for a 5% discount, which is hardly worth it. On top of that, he doesn't release new issues until Thursdays. The closest comic shop other than his is about an hour away, so I don't really have much of a choice.

 

He is sorta friendly in an odd way. We usually converse for about 15-20 minutes each visit because I'm usually the only one in there. It's an extremely small shop. But the encounter today has me dreading to return next week to pick up new issues. What would you guys do?

 

Sorry this ran so long...

 

well, I am in Texas and glad I have my boots on. Gonna call BS on this. If you need details why feel free to ask.

 

[ChiSoxFan]