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Bigger BA Key: ASM 121 or Batman 232?

Started by bronze johnny,

ASM 121 or Batman 232  

510 members have voted

  1. 1. ASM 121 or Batman 232

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214 posts in this topic

zosocane

zosocane

Posted
Posted
So the Bats movie effect is marginalized and an expected movie event for Spidey is additional support?

 

Somewhat the other way around: The Bats movie effect in 2005 buoyed the lesser appreciated (and therefore lesser valued) 232 up to pricing par (more or less) with 121, which hitherto lacked movie support (the Bryce Dallas Howard-Gwen was at a cameo level in the third Raimi film and had de minimis impact on 121). Now, the current Spidey movie franchise (I'm assuming the Emma Stone-Gwen will be dealt with true to her fate in 121) will, in my opinion, push 121 clear of 232. By way of empirical support, look at GPA and you will see a 9.4 or 9.6 copy of 121 already trading high over a 10-year period with a lot of volatility; compare a 9.4 or 9.6 of a 232 and the trading starts to spike up around 2005, the year Batman Begins is released. The volatility of 232 is less than 121 because RAG shows up again conceptually just last year in DK Rises. An entire generation of collectors that never really got to understand the importance of the Gwen character in the Spidey mythos will realize the importance of 121 in the coming years, and thereby "right" 121 vis-a-vis 232, which closed a large pricing gap against 121 in recent years.

 

Just two cents from one of the older boardies. :preach: (What I don't touch upon is that there are so many more copies of 121 out there than 232.) Interesting topic!

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The Madness

The Madness

Posted
Posted
So the Bats movie effect is marginalized and an expected movie event for Spidey is additional support?

 

Take away all the Batman movies and all the Spider-Man movies. ASM 121 had the bigger impact if you look at it from this point thus my opinion of 121 being the bigger key.

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zosocane

zosocane

Posted
Posted
So the Bats movie effect is marginalized and an expected movie event for Spidey is additional support?

 

Take away all the Batman movies and all the Spider-Man movies. ASM 121 had the bigger impact if you look at it from this point thus my opinion of 121 being the bigger key.

 

That's right; sort of like looking at the two books with 2004 glasses. Then fast forward to 2016 or so when the 3rd Spidey film comes out and gives 121 the same "movie effect" benefit that 232 has enjoyed since 2005 and reminds the new and immediately preceding generation of collectors of 121's importance in the BA universe. By 2016, 121 will once again be viewed (with far less debate) as the superior BA key, all planets of the Solar Federation will have assumed control, and balance will be restored in The Force.

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MK Ultra

MK Ultra

Posted
Posted
Hi Mint,

Perhaps it's my interpretation, but if they are not even in the "same caliber" then how or why can we compare them?

 

As of now the poll supports ASM 121 as the bigger BA key.

 

Respectfully,

John

 

Marvel Zombies

 

As I don't really collect high grade slabs much, I'm not in tune with the trends. I was more looking at a few posts that seemed to marginalize RAG in the movie, so I appreciate the insight. If it's true that 232 was only broken out b/c of Adams before Liam, then I stand corrected. However, I still feel that with all the subsequent "deaths" and gimmicks to bring the characters back to life that it's not the seminal event that it may have been back in 1971. That may be my prejudice, but as I was only three...

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zosocane

zosocane

Posted
Posted
I don't know about you guys, but is it me or are high grade ASM 121s all of a sudden disappearing from the seller's end of the market?

 

It's not just you. They are trending upward on GPA the last several months. My theory is collectors/investors are buying them now before the Emma Stone-Gwen eats it.

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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted

When I started collecting in earnest in the early 90s, Batman 232 was a $15-20 book. ASM 121 was a $75-100 book. They weren't close to in the same league. I told my buddy to buy Batman 232 (he did); neither of us could afford ASM 121.

 

And from the long-time collectors I talked to, ASM 121-122 and Green Lantern 76 were _the_ key books that marked the transition from the Silver Age to Bronze. Grittier, darker, a loss of innocence. GL 76 dealt overtly with racism and social justice, while ASM 121 dared to kill off a major (albeit supporting) character. The gloves were off. Anything was game.

 

As cool as R'as (and that initial storyline) is, the old fogey in me won't ever see 232 as surpassing 121 in importance, although I do think Batman 232 deserves to be more valuable and collectible than 227, 234, 251 or Detective 400.

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Maccai3

Maccai3

Posted
Posted

isn't #234 the more expensive book of that Bat era?

 

also, what year do CGC have as start of the Bronze Age? Batman #234 is the first Silver Age appearance of Two-Face so technically isn't #232 a Silver Age book?

 

i always used the GL/GA 76 as the Bronze Age starter

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lscomics

lscomics

Posted
Posted
isn't #234 the more expensive book of that Bat era?

 

also, what year do CGC have as start of the Bronze Age? Batman #234 is the first Silver Age appearance of Two-Face so technically isn't #232 a Silver Age book?

 

i always used the GL/GA 76 as the Bronze Age starter

It's on that borderline that has never been firmly established. I've always considered 232 to be Bronze Age because of the 15 cent cover price myself and looked at 234 as being mislabeled as Silver Age.
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Gatsby77

Gatsby77

Posted
Posted
isn't #234 the more expensive book of that Bat era?

 

also, what year do CGC have as start of the Bronze Age? Batman #234 is the first Silver Age appearance of Two-Face so technically isn't #232 a Silver Age book?

 

i always used the GL/GA 76 as the Bronze Age starter

It's on that borderline that has never been firmly established. I've always considered 232 to be Bronze Age because of the 15 cent cover price myself and looked at 234 as being mislabeled as Silver Age.

 

Batman 232 (and 234) are both Bronze Age books. Two Face never appeared in the Silver Age, so technically 234 is "first Two Face appearance since the Golden Age."

 

I really don't want to re-open the whole "when did Bronze begin" debate, but for DC--it almost certainly began with Neal Adams, a penumbra born of Detective 395 (first O'Neil/Adams Batman), Batman 217 (Robin quits and goes to college; Bruce Wayne closes up the Batcave and moves to Wayne Tower downtown in order to better fight "a new kind of criminal" (i.e. white collar crooks), Superman 233 (first Adams Superman, kryptonite goes bye bye, Clarks moves from newspaper to TV reporter) and Green Lantern 76.

 

All four are Adams books; all four marked a conscious editorial shift in how the characters were treated. Batman 217 doesn't get the respect it deserves because the cover sucks, but it starts the transformation of Robin away from tights and (eventually) to Nightwing.

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

 

While I can buy the argument that 15¢ books are Silver Age ( though I go with the title by title definition instead of a hard date), once prices bumped to a quarter ( and then dropped back to 20¢), the Silver Age was clearly over regardless of the title.

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jools&jim

jools&jim

Posted
Posted

 

Superman 233 (first Adams Superman...)

Not exactly. Adams only drew the cover for Supes 233 (and what a cover it is!), not the interior, which was by Swan and Anderson. He had in fact been drawing Superman on the covers of various DC mags (Action, Superman, World's Finest, JLA, etc.) since as early as 1967, I believe, and the first interior story he illustrated featuring Superman is in World's Finest Comics #175, cover dated May of 1968.

 

Anyway, Supes #233 is clearly the first BA Superman, for all the other reasons you mention. The iconic Adams cover is the icing on the cake...

 

 

 

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solarcadet

solarcadet

Posted
Posted

Superman 233 (first Adams Superman...)

Not exactly. Adams only drew the cover for Supes 233 (and what a cover it is!), not the interior, which was by Swan and Anderson. He had in fact been drawing Superman on the covers of various DC mags (Action, Superman, World's Finest, JLA, etc.) since as early as 1967, I believe, and the first interior story he illustrated featuring Superman is in World's Finest Comics #175, cover dated May of 1968.

 

Anyway, Supes #233 is clearly the first BA Superman, for all the other reasons you mention. The iconic Adams cover is the icing on the cake...

 

Im hardcore on the Superman #233 collector!!!

http://collectingsuperman.com/?p=1906

 

 

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